lawetlatla Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) I play jazz regularly in a school band, & know that I want to continue with it in the future, so that, combined with being a big Jaco Pastorius fan has got me interested in getting a fretless bass. As my interest has grown I've spent much more time practicing intonation & other technical aspects of playing so I don't move to a fretless & realise that my playing has been incredibly messy. I was thinking of getting a fretless Jazz as I've been after a Fender Jazz for ages, so this seemed like the ideal opportunity What I wanted to ask was for any tips or pointers for someone new to the whole fretless side of bass playing? Edited June 19, 2015 by lawetlatla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassBus Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I'd say don't use slides too much. They are a bit naff to my ear. Listen to Gary Willis. He has some very good pointers on YouTube. Keep your touch quite light. That will let you get the most out of the instrument. Gives you greater dynamics as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 [quote name='BassBus' timestamp='1434748768' post='2802594'] I'd say don't use slides too much. [/quote] This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyctes Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Agree on slides. Make sure it's properly intonated and in tune; it makes much more of a difference on a fretless. Don't think of it as another bass guitar; it's an instrument in its own right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveFry Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Try to not look at the fingerboard , use your ears . Practice in the dark . If you can sing it ( in tune ) you can play it ( in tune ) . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Cloud Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Be innovative, creative and expressive. Listen to Percy Jones and Mick Karn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hubrad Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Yup, slides and vibrato are there as an expression. Get the intonation right and, well, play bass. Steve Bailey said a great comment he got was 'Oh, I didn't realise it was a fretless'. Enjoy! The first bass I picked up was a defretted, and I fell in love. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellzero Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 (edited) Absolutely right White Cloud ! Percy Jones who has been playing on a Precision Bass (listen to Brand X) and Mick Karn who was playing mainly on a Wal but started on a Travis Bean and ended on an acoustic Klein (listen to Japan) are my favourite fretless bass players and certainly way more innovative than Jaco Pastorius, but don't forget Michael Manring... For the playing itself : use open strings to hear if you are still in tune, make slight longitudinale finger movements to increase your growl (no bend on fretless instruments), play on the neck if you want to hear all the power of fretless and think slow and articulate, don't tend to overuse slide effects (again listen to Mick Karn who was a real intelligent slide master), let the notes ring and develop, use external effects like chorus or reverb or octaver or whatever with parsimony, open your ears and play with them, practise as much as you can and keep in mind that you still have to learn ! Here are my few advices for the playing itself. For the sound, low midrange is the key to that fretless sound you certainly want to hear. Prefer 12" speakers and forget tubes. If your instrument is passive, use the tone to sculpt your sound. Prefer the closest to the bridge pickup, but don't neglect the neck pickup. Moaw ! Tony. Edited June 20, 2015 by Hellzero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grangur Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Another good guy to look up is Steve Lawson. Going off track a bit; Steve is left handed and plays right handed. I was in a Q&A session with him and he said he found slap n pop really hard to master. It made me (another leftie) feel much better about my own pathetic efforts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Our youngest adopted my 6-string fretless very quickly, and plays it just like any other bass, in whatever style the song is in. The only real difference is that there are no frets, so it's the ears that are used to keep the notes in tune, rather than the frets. No great difference otherwise; there's nothing sacred about it. Frets are quite a recent invention, as is the 'mystique' associated in the minds of some. One can play pretty much anything in exactly the same way as any other bass. My only advice would be to [i]listen[/i]; the darkened room method is good. You seldom need to look at the fingerboard. Use harmonics, too, to help keep in tune. Don't over-think it, it's just like any other instrument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ead Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Consider also moving your picking position a little. My fretless basses all have a particular sweet spot where the mwah and the swell of the note is more pronounced than when I just play over one of the pickups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassBus Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 And don't forget they are good for metal too. Sorry, [duck] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 (edited) The best advice I can give is to ignore what others say and follow your nose. Some people play a fretless in just the same way as they play a fretted, others consistently do things on a fretless that are impossible on a fretted, most stick somewhere in the middle. Not using slides too much? Well I'm not sure, if it's right for the music, do it, if it's not, don't. Been listening to Graceland today and the fretless on those tracks contain just about every cliche in the fretless book (plus some innovation for sure), but they're perfect for the songs and in many respects definitive lines. Personally, I really really really don't like chorus on fretless, but my not liking it and my suggesting you don't do it are - and should be - two different things. I guess the trick is to do what sounds and feels good to you. My fretless playing is pretty agricultural - often out of tune to be honest, and often a little too obvious (I used to play cello and often still think like a cellist) - but I like it, the musos I play with like it, and judging from the response I get at gigs, audiences are OK with it. I don't try to sound or play like anyone else or follow any rules other than my own, and I doubt I sound like anyone else. Edited June 20, 2015 by Beedster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellzero Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Cool, with all these answers and advices, now Lawetlatla is certainly completely lost, but that's a good thing... ;-) In fact, as Beedster wrote, play it the way you want and you'll find your way. And remember : no fret, no limit ! Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonbass Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 If you're new to fretless I would definitely make sure you get a bass with fret markers. Although as you advance you tend to use your ears more, when getting started it can be very disheartening to struggle with intonation. Even Jaco extolled the virtues of having fret markers! The bass guitar has a much longer neck than most string instruments, with little or no 'feel' indicators as you go up the neck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawetlatla Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 Thank you for all the advice, I'll definitely check out those artists & try out those tips Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ead Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Forgot to say that I find very light compression works very well with a fretless bass too. I've a Diamond BCP which seems to work realy nicely and is a nice change from a chorus pedal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellzero Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Sorry, but compression must come out of the fingers. The less you put effects, the better the sound is. And yes fretless bass is another instrument as double bass is. If you are still at school, try to learn the most academic way and then try to forget everything... harder to do than to say. ;-) By the way, I was kidding when I wrote that Beedster was right : Have you ever tried writing and reading without knowing the basic principles ? Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjohn Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 I recently got a fretless and have had no difficultly with it at all. It's just a bass, in fact in find it easier in some ways as there's no frets in the way of where you should be putting your fingers! My advice, if you care to take it (and want to make it easy on yourself) is to get a freless with a neck on that's the same as a fretted bass you're already familiar with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zawinul Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 [quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1434748906' post='2802597'] This. [/quote] don;t listen to people who tell you what to do. From Percy Jones himself: ' [color=#555555]If you feel that a fretless bass is the best instrument for you to express yourself on then get stuck in and work hard with it. Strive to get your own “voice” out via the instrument and learn to differentiate between positive and negative criticism" [/color] [font="palatino linotype, palatino, serif"][color="#555555"]There are a lot of fretless players around and a lot of them sound the same, a kind of dull sound, lots of vibrato... blah blah....[/color][/font] [color=#555555]Theres a hell of a lot you can do with a fretless, as i'm finding out, but I would would say try and avoid that cliche sound, explore what it can do [/color] [color=#555555]Percy Jones and Mick Karn used slides all the time, harmonics, etc .... no rules[/color] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Cloud Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 [quote name='zawinul' timestamp='1434892736' post='2803609'] [color=#555555]Percy Jones and Mick Karn used slides all the time, harmonics, etc .... no rules[/color] [/quote] Absolutely. Music is art, the only rule is that there are no rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 [quote name='Hellzero' timestamp='1434884627' post='2803530'] By the way, I was kidding when I wrote that Beedster was right : Have you ever tried writing and reading without knowing the basic principles ? [/quote] The basic principles in question are those of music; tone, melody, harmony and rhythm. You're perhaps confusing rules of communicating a language - in your example reading and writing - with the aptitude for language itself. Language is analogous to sonic expression, and language is a phenomenon for which humans posses well developed/evolved processes that are independent of their ability to read or write them. [quote name='zawinul' timestamp='1434892736' post='2803609'] don;t listen to people who tell you what to do. From Percy Jones himself: ' [color=#555555]If you feel that a fretless bass is the best instrument for you to express yourself on then get stuck in and work hard with it. Strive to get your own “voice” out via the instrument and learn to differentiate between positive and negative criticism" [/color] [font=palatino linotype, palatino, serif][color=#555555]There are a lot of fretless players around and a lot of them sound the same, a kind of dull sound, lots of vibrato... blah blah....[/color][/font] [color=#555555]Theres a hell of a lot you can do with a fretless, as i'm finding out, but I would would say try and avoid that cliche sound, explore what it can do [/color] [color=#555555]Percy Jones and Mick Karn used slides all the time, harmonics, etc .... no rules[/color] [/quote] Exactly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellzero Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 I think that nobody read what this girl was asking : tips and pointers ! So put simply : a way to progress and understand the fretless world. I think that when anyone writes "do it your way without bothering if you're doing it correctly", does he remember that all these artists have studied (not learned, it's not the same) music, even when they say exactly the opposite ? Talent is nothing without work... Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjohn Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 [quote name='Hellzero' timestamp='1434908424' post='2803764'] I think that when anyone writes "do it your way without bothering if you're doing it correctly"... [/quote] See instructions below... [quote name='Hellzero' timestamp='1434793376' post='2802837'] For the playing itself : use open strings to hear if you are still in tune, make slight longitudinale finger movements to increase your growl (no bend on fretless instruments), play on the neck if you want to hear all the power of fretless and think slow and articulate, don't tend to overuse slide effects... let the notes ring and develop, use external effects like chorus or reverb or octaver or whatever with parsimony...low midrange is the key to that fretless sound you certainly want to hear. Prefer 12" speakers and forget tubes. If your instrument is passive, use the tone to sculpt your sound. Prefer the closest to the bridge pickup, but don't neglect the neck pickup. [/quote] And remember kids... [quote name='Hellzero' timestamp='1434908424' post='2803764'] Talent is nothing without work... [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 [quote name='Hellzero' timestamp='1434908424' post='2803764'] I think that when anyone writes "do it your way without bothering if you're doing it correctly", does he remember that all these artists have studied (not learned, it's not the same) music, even when they say exactly the opposite ? [/quote] OK, you tell me what is 'correctly' and if I agree I'll agree with whatever else you say.....? The point is, there's no such thing as 'correctly'. The OP cites Jaco. Jaco wasn't doing it 'correctly' when he hit the scene in the late 60's, not by the then EB standards anyway. No-one above has said don't study or learn, but a few people have suggested that there are no 'fretless bass rules' as such, so study what you choose to study and learn what you choose to learn is good advice, whilst 'don't use slides' etc is just rhetoric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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