Great British Bass Lounge - T's & C's

[basskit_case]

Cannot sleep, looking the GBBL website and found this on their terms and conditions page:

"Basses not shipped in a hardcase are at the customer's risk as they cannot be insured under our courier's standard terms and conditions."

So, if you buy a bass from them and it is in pieces on arrival, you the customer have to pay to repair it? Poor.

[Billy Apple]

If they can't get Insurance they can't get insurance. I suppose your options are to pick up in person or negotiate a generic hard case. Or don't buy from them.

[basskit_case]

Cheers Billy, I know that there are options, but it would surely be expected that a business would cover damage in transit. I wouldn't get away with that on eBay or in the for sale section here.

[Billy Apple]

[quote name='basskit_case' timestamp='1435299110' post='2807316']
I wouldn't get away with that on eBay or in the for sale section here.
[/quote]

I'm not so sure. Many sales in the marketplace here state that goods will only be shipped at the buyers cost and risk.

[gary mac]

I think it's actually good that they are pointing that out.

None of the couriers will insure, unless the bass is in a hardcase as far as I know.

[anzoid]

Recently had to ship a bass I sold on eBay and decided to have a proper look into insurance and the like and found exactly what gary mac said - no-one wants to insure a bass that isn't in a proper hard case, and even then some of them are pretty vague about what cover they do offer. It turned out that, for me, using ParcelForce was the best option for a non-hardcased bass though I couldn't use their "Enhanced Compensation" scheme (glad I found that out beofre paying the extra...) - just choose the right amount for the inclusive compensation. This probably only works for low value stuff (which the bass was...).

Edited June 26, 2015 by anzoid

[Iain]

Bought a fair bit of kit off GBBL but lucky enough to live close enough to visit and not so close I'm bankrupt.

Drew, the proprietor, always strikes me as honest and clear - I'm a big fan of the way he does business. At least there are going to be no unpleasant surprises for the buyer with everything clearly stated.

[Musicman20]

Aye, Drew seems quite straight talking, and prefers meeting customers to sell/discuss or to see you in the shop. I've recently moved to Cheshire/Greater Manchester so I need to pay a visit.

[Skybone]

When I bought a bass from them, they didn't have any cheaper hard cases in, a the bass didn't come with one, other than Cort cases. Drew then ordered up a bunch of Thomann cases, and only charged the same for it as Thomann were. OK, my bass took a bit longer to get to me because he was waiting on cases, but I got a new case. Sorted.

[PlungerModerno]

[quote name='gary mac' timestamp='1435301777' post='2807347']
I think it's actually good that they are pointing that out.

None of the couriers will insure, unless the bass is in a hardcase as far as I know.
[/quote]

+1. I like where & how it's made clear: [url="http://greatbritishbasslounge.com/contact/"]http://greatbritishbasslounge.com/contact/[/url]

[Jakester]

Actually, it's unlikely that this would ever stand up as a retailer cannot exclude a consumer's statutory rights which includes a requirement that the goods are of satisfactory quality.

So if you did turn up in pieces through no-fault of your own, you would be able to bring a claim against the retailer. Of course, I am sure they would do their best to assist before that was ever necessary.

[Sibob]

Not sure why a shop is expected to cover the cost of a bass during transit when:

A ) they're not delivering themselves (who does?)
B ) the courier they're using won't insure it

If you're buying a bass, do yourself, the shop and the bass itself the courtesy of either buying a hardcase, or even better, picking it up in person.

Not poor at all from Bass Lounge.

Si

[Jakester]

[quote name='Sibob' timestamp='1435346697' post='2808038']
Not sure why a shop is expected to cover the cost of a bass during transit when:

A) they're not delivering themselves (who does?)
the courier they're using won't insure it

If you're buying a bass, do yourself, the shop and the bass itself the courtesy of either buying a hardcase, or even better, picking it up in person.

Not poor at all from Bass Lounge.

Si
[/quote]

Not saying it's poor, just probably not legally enforceable!

[Sibob]

[quote name='Jakester' timestamp='1435348227' post='2808061']


Not saying it's poor, just probably not legally enforceable!
[/quote]

Sorry, was replying to the OP essentially

Si

[anzoid]

One question with distance selling (i.e. via the internet) is when risk passes from the seller to the buyer. According to this: http://www.unlockthelaw.co.uk/distance-selling-regulations.html
"The risk involved in transporting the goods remains on the seller upon giving the goods to the carrier. However, if the carrier is chosen by the buyer and it is not one of the seller’s usual carriers, the risk then passes to the buyer, who is held liable for damages by the carrier."

Whether GBBL's own T&Cs override this part of consumer protection law and the Distance Selling Regs I have absolutely no idea (not a lawyer, don't play one on TV, etc.) but I would imagine that you might have a case as they are a retailer and I doubt they can pass the risk just by saying so. Though they would probably argue that you accept the risk by ordering a bass without hardcase.

Only way to really find out is to buy a bass and hope(?!) it turns up as matchsticks and then see how they respond... Anyone want to give it a shot?

[neepheid]

When are these ruddy couriers going to start doing such a good job that it's a negligible risk to send anything anywhere? Why should it be at either the seller or the buyer's own risk? Something is rotten about the whole thing.

I should be able to send a reasonably packed duck egg via a courier and expect it to be in one piece at the other end AND if it's broken whilst in the possession of the courier then it's THEIR fault - shouldn't need insurance for that.

Edited June 26, 2015 by neepheid

[inate_hex]

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1435357538' post='2808165']
When are these ruddy couriers going to start doing such a good job that it's a negligible risk to send anything anywhere? Why should it be at either the seller or the buyer's own risk? Something is rotten about the whole thing.

I should be able to send a reasonably packed duck egg via a courier and expect it to be in one piece at the other end AND if it's broken whilst in the possession of the courier then it's THEIR fault - shouldn't need insurance for that.
[/quote]

I totally agree with this. It's a shame that we have to pay extra money to take out insurance to protect us incase the company screw up. When you pay for something to be delivered it should be in the same condition as you sent it. Imagine being in a restaurant and the waiter drops your steak on the floor, picks it up, puts it back on your plate and then serves it to you. "Sorry Sir, you didn't pay the extra £3 to insure your steak. Bon Apetite!"

[ead]

Generally with Ts and Cs, the last bit of paper wins.

I've bought an amount of stuff from Drew, he is an absolutely upright person. Risk is clearly pointed out to buyers so you know where you stand. Drew will bend over backwards to help in my experience.

[Lozz196]

Good that they state this, as yes the majority of couriers won`t insure a musical instrument unless in a hard case. I`d however be wary of buying an expensive instrument and having it shipped knowing it wasn`t insured (and also a bit dubious about an expensive instrument shipped without being in a hard case as well).

[Jakester]

[quote name='ead' timestamp='1435401809' post='2808415']
Generally with Ts and Cs, the last bit of paper wins.

[/quote]

Apart from in consumer contracts, where there are certain provisions implied into the contract by law and which cannot be excluded - these are your 'statutory rights' and broadly speaking any term that purports to exclude the vendor's liability in this way is likely to be an unfair contract term.

Edited June 27, 2015 by Jakester

[yorks5stringer]

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1435357538' post='2808165']
When are these ruddy couriers going to start doing such a good job that it's a negligible risk to send anything anywhere? Why should it be at either the seller or the buyer's own risk? Something is rotten about the whole thing.

I should be able to send a reasonably packed duck egg via a courier and expect it to be in one piece at the other end AND if it's broken whilst in the possession of the courier then it's THEIR fault - shouldn't need insurance for that.
[/quote]
[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1435357538' post='2808165']
When are these ruddy couriers going to start doing such a good job that it's a negligible risk to send anything anywhere? Why should it be at either the seller or the buyer's own risk? Something is rotten about the whole thing.

I should be able to send a reasonably packed [b]duck egg [/b]via a courier and expect it to be in one piece at the other end AND if it's broken whilst in the possession of the courier then it's THEIR fault - shouldn't need insurance for that.
[/quote]

Don't you mean Duck Egg Blue?

[Moos3h]

If it helps, I knew that when I had a bass delivered and it was packed INSANELY well - took me best part of 15 mins to actually get to it.

I think it's good that they are clear about the process - it's not their fault that couriers won't insure the package, so if you want to take the risk at least you are informed.

[fretmeister]

I think it's now actually a criminal offence to try to avoid the consumer protection regulations.

I'm sure I read that recently.

[ead]

[quote name='Jakester' timestamp='1435420969' post='2808642']
Apart from in consumer contracts, where there are certain provisions implied into the contract by law and which cannot be excluded - these are your 'statutory rights' and broadly speaking any term that purports to exclude the vendor's liability in this way is likely to be an unfair contract term.
[/quote]

Good point, I had my commercial hat on there I think!

[Descendent]

Hi all, apologies in resurrecting a month old thread but I've only spotted it recently. I do all the web design & graphic design for GBBL and therefore know GBBL & Drew pretty well, hopefully I can clarify a few things.

From Drew himself:
__
[color=#000000][font=Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif][size=3]
"GBBL does not sell Thomann hardcases per se, we stock them (either the tolex covered wood ones or the ABS moulded ones) for the sole purpose of shipping basses that do not come with a hardcase. There's no profit made on the cases which are offered to the customer at cost price. It is simply to facilitate a safe delivery which is surely in the buyers and sellers best interest. Customers aren't certainly not charged for packaging materials or time in packaging a bass up, booking the courier etc etc."[/size][/font][/color][color=#000000][font=Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif][size=3]
__

Hope that helps a bit. If a bass doesn't come with a case (and a lot don't) Drew will make every effort to get it to the customer safely and well packaged. There's been £3000+ Wals shipped to Australia, £2000 Warwicks to USA, etc and no issues so far!

Any questions, just ask.[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif][size=3]
Tom[/size][/font][/color]