Edinburgh BC'ers - Come and give advice on our live sound!

[krispn]

Been reading the recent threads about live sound mixes and peoples experience of a bad live sound. As with so many of these things actually hearing the band is far better than talking about the mix so with that in mind!

[b][i]I hereby actively encourage my fellow BC'ers in Edinburgh to come listen to my pub band and offer constructive feedback on our sound. I'd even implement the changes before we return for the second set to try out the fix around.[/i][/b]

[u]The problem?[/u]
We have guitar and fiddle, one vocal as well as drums and bass. There is a ongoing discussion about stage volume - fiddle too loud then guitar cant hear, then guitar too loud [i]ad infinitum[/i]. I think you are all familiar with that script!

We dont soundcheck per say as the venue usually has music or sports on (prior to us going on/starting) via the house PA so we get a quick blast via the on stage monitor - our singer/guitarist is also our 'sound man' and uses the metering lights on the desk as a guide for volume.

[u]The other problem[/u]!
I say 'sound man' The singer claims to have been a 'sound man' in the past and while I don't doubt he's done many a gig as sound man I'm not convinced we have a good band mix- recently I discovered he didn't know what/how the semi-parametric EQ worked on his desk after continued feedback issues on a gig. I managed to mitigate the problem but I'm not sure I can fix our whole mix! Thing is it might sound great out front and its just a stage volume thing. He continually thinks new gear or better gear is the answer but we've recently eastblished he had no idea how to wok the BOSE LMII he bought and how to set up a good fiddle sound, effectively use compression and EQ etc or how to work the mids - he thinks boosting EQ is the answer while I say flat EQ or narrow Q cuts or tasteful broad band boost. Also I'm not sure he knows where anomalies in sound might be happening - like tuning out feedback with the semi-mids for instance or reducing boominess from his acoustic guitar

[u]Solutions?[/u]
I've chatted about getting the fiddle and guitar out of each others sonic territory so there isnt a volume based 'turf war' waged every time they gig. I've brought up the importance of their own sonic space and we'll work on this at rehearsal next week with trying some eq settings with the mids, recording having a listen back, then tweaking again record, play repeat etc while keeping a record of setings.

He plays a Variax guitar/POD 500 into the desk and we're gonna look at simplifing his pre set sounds with hopefully an even volume across patches as this could be a contributing factor - using a volume pedal to 'judge' volume for different patches just seems so unscientific and hard to do after the ear fatigue kicks in. Our fiddle player has bought a decent EQ/Di but was going into a BOSE 'brain' from the LMII he has for duo gigs but it might mean we can refresh her sound with this new kit.


[u]Your mission if you choose to accept it[/u]!
So.......our gigs are free to enter, the bar is usually quite busy with lots of attractive men and women dancing and enjoying themselves but we've established often the punters don't care for sound rather just a familiar track to boogie to.

So come one come all- make it an official meet up for our Edinburgh Chapter and collectively have a chat with me at our break. I promise to listen attentively and put all constructive comments to good use in the second half!!

Our upcoiming dates are listed below - this isnt a come to my gig scam but a genuine appeal for some advice and constructive criticism from people who have (hopefully) informed opinions!

Our next full band gig is the [i][b]24th July, Finnegans Wake, Edinburgh-10:30pm[/b][/i] I've abt 5 August dates too but I'll revisit the post closer to the time and resend my appeal.

I welcome advice, tips and and general know how!

Edited July 4, 2015 by krispn

[krispn]

As we only really play this one venue as a full band, once we get the mix right it's a set and forget type thing - he's on about getting a digital desk and new moniy=tors but again I think we have the tools to make it right - just need the know how!

[bassist_lewis]

I play there occasionally (last Friday in fact). Are you using the house desk? I find it unnecessarily confusing and it doesn't always work. You are right to consider cutting frequencies rather than boosting, the latter can cause worse feedback. As for your guitar/fiddle problem, try turning someone down first, not up. Also, if you are a decent player you know what your fingers are doing 90% of the time so maybe tell them to leave the ego at the door!
I can't come to your gig on the 24th but I imagine you'll get something during the festival as they do 2 gigs a day during August so keep this thread updated.
L

[krispn]

We use our own desk etc and have a decent signal chain for the most part - it's all decent enough kit. Like you say it's more a volume thing which can easily be read as ego and that could be half right. I just think that there may well be an EQ fix in there somewhere or am I just being a bit naive

Damn us bass players and our concern for the band sounding good not just fuelling our egos!

[jacko]

if I can get a pass out I'll try to come along. You may recognise me as the fat bloke that bought an SVP-pro from you a few years ago. How are you monitoring your gigs? Finnegan's has an OK speaker set up but last time I played there they only had 1 floor monitor. We always took our own and spent a lot of time getting the levels right - useful to have the 'front man' explain to the punters what you're doing. as others have said, turn down, not up.

[krispn]

Hey there hope that preamp served you well!

We bring our own monitor and desk and I think the volume on stage is proving to be the issue. Only one monitor so everything is coming through it and as a result I think the fiddle/guitar/vocal are all vying for sonic real estate.

As I say I think EQ might help but we've no real idea of what's going on out front. Some times the punters might say more vocal etc but we can't really tell.

We'll be having a frank discussion about it at our trio gig this Sunday and I'm gonna try and get a good monitor mix with fiddle /guitar so at rehearsal we can see how it sounds with the full band. It's just I've little confidence in our singers ability to mix sound. I'd say he's a volume man not a sound man!!

Edited July 7, 2015 by krispn

[krispn]

Hey guys my shout out for tonight still stands - if anyone wants to swing by Finnegan's from 10.30pm and berate the live sound but provide some useful advice too I'm all ears

As a side line our singer has just bough a new desk and is 'studying it' ahead of using it for two gigs tonight - one a duo and another with the full band. The desk looks super intuitive and I think we will be more open about what we want to get out of it as well as we've had a big chat about the sound etc.

I'm not just interested in how my bass sounds or how out of tune the singer might go, I'd just like to know what the mix is like if the fiddle has enough body, the vox are full and even and most importantly the guitar - He's using a POD HD500 and I'm aware they can sound harsh. I'm not too sure he knows what to do in attaining a good rock sound and uses 18 different patches over the course of the gig (I'm not sure why - I think because he can he does).

Ultimately it'll be a good gig but its so hard to judge the sound from the stage and we dont get to do a sound check as such - just a monitor feed on stage before they change FOH over form the jukebox or TV sports

Looking forward to it though as it's always a great night in Finn's!

Gavin

Edited July 24, 2015 by krispn

[jacko]

Sorry Gavin. I'm having to work tonight now. Bit p*ssed off as they gave me no warning.

[krispn]

No sweat maybe some other time If Danny is in tonight i may get him to record us on my phone ( I may have a buddy swinging by too so we should get some audio or video nabbed)

G

[KevB]

Pay for my air fare and overnight accommodation and I'll give you a written report Never been to Edinburgh. Leaves East Mids at 17:05, arrives Edinburgh 18:15. Return flight about £220. I'll leave the accommodation to you.

Edited July 24, 2015 by KevB

[krispn]

Ticket booked and a room on the delightful Grassmarket Bench hotel, boasting seating space for three and comfortably sleeps one

[KevB]

Darn, saw the post too late! Hope you had a great gig and picked up some useful feedback from those that made it.

[dmccombe7]

[quote name='krispn' timestamp='1437754132' post='2828852'] Ticket booked and a room on the delightful Grassmarket Bench hotel, boasting seating space for three and comfortably sleeps one [/quote]

I can vouch for this accomodation altho some years ago. I believe they are now 4 star with en-suite

Dave