Guest MoJo Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 It's one of those statements I've heard more than once, 'class D amps can be loud but they don't carry. You can't hear them at the back of the room'. Is this another urban myth. Volts are volts, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passinwind Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 [quote name='MoJo' timestamp='1437245646' post='2824674'] It's one of those statements I've heard more than once, 'class D amps can be loud but they don't carry. You can't hear them at the back of the room'. Is this another urban myth. Volts are volts, right? [/quote] http://basschat.co.uk/topic/266141-wee-article-to-help-demystify-amps/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 http://basschat.co.uk/topic/264835-current-class-ab-amps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary mac Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Can't say I've noticed any problem with my one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudpup Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Class D definitely lacks slam in my experience. I swapped out a Genz Shuttle 9.2 head for a Gallien GT700RB and you can feel the GK rumble in your guts - the Genz couldnt generate that. I have the 700 in a rack along with a GK MBFusion so can compare both really easily at gig volume and the class D still doesnt have the depth and slam that the 700 has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 If you can hear it, its a problem but if you can't, you can't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomBass Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Id suggest its more to do with the PSU choice than the amp section. Possibly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 I`ve heard other bassists use my rig without any FOH, and it`s not lacked at all. Okay, an all-valve stack has more oomph to it, but that doesn`t mean Class Ds don`t have any, they just don`t have as much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 [quote name='MoJo' timestamp='1437245646' post='2824674'] Volts are volts, right? [/quote]Right. That doesn't mean that some Class D amps might not be anemic, but don't blame it on being Class D, blame it on poor design by the manufacturer. Powersoft wouldn't be where it is if there was something inherently deficient about Class D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandad Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 I've had a PJB Flightcase and PB300 for a few months. I A/B it with my Peavey Max 160 into an Ampeg B115E. So that's SS discrete into Ferrite speaker compared with SMPS + class D into Neo's. They are very different in tone when set with a flat eq. I would say the SS bottom end is more dominant against the low mids for the Class D. To get a similar umph the bass is at 2 compared to 12 oclock and the low mids at 10. But I'm not sure this is a lack of umph in class D amps as more the clearer tone of a newer amp design. The umph is there to be dialed in as are more tonal options. The thing I've noticed most is the definition. Notes are more precise and also getting used to hearing the higher harmonics. I was comfortable with my old rig and I think it takes some listening time to adjust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 [quote name='grandad' timestamp='1437258481' post='2824740'] I've had a PJB Flightcase and PB300 for a few months. I A/B it with my Peavey Max 160 into an Ampeg B115E. So that's SS discrete into Ferrite speaker compared with SMPS + class D into Neo's. They are very different in tone when set with a flat eq. I would say the SS bottom end is more dominant against the low mids for the Class D. To get a similar umph the bass is at 2 compared to 12 oclock and the low mids at 10. But I'm not sure this is a lack of umph in class D amps as more the clearer tone of a newer amp design. The umph is there to be dialed in as are more tonal options. The thing I've noticed most is the definition. Notes are more precise and also getting used to hearing the higher harmonics. I was comfortable with my old rig and I think it takes some listening time to adjust. [/quote] I think if you're comparing a Phil Jones Flightcase and PB300 with a Peavey Max 160 into a Ampeg B115e the fact that one rig is Class AB and the other Class D is so far down the list of variables as to be irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tdw Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Ive only ever used 1 class d, an ampeg pf. I thought it was awful - it was lacking in umph but also there seemed to be a kind of weird graininess to the sound, a slightly abrasive sounding texture that i hated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truckstop Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 The way I've always thought of it as, is that Class D 'sounds' loud while class A 'is' loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modman Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 When people say oomph... They probably mean those unusable sub bass frequencies that muddy up the entire mix, leaving the kick drum buried. Also due to the wavelength of bass frequencies being longer than higher, they would be more pronounced at the back of the room. I've had both Class D's and your back breakers, i've pony sounding amps in both fields and good sounding amps from both too. That's why you should always try before you buy. Another problem is that a lot of bass players just don't know how to EQ their amps properly which in turn gives poor performance and poor sound from the amp. Just my 2 pence rant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MoJo Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 The reason behind the original post is that I own both a TC Electronic BG250-115 and a Peavey BAM210. The latter is twice the weight of the former. I've been gigging the BG250 for a few weeks now in small / medium pub gigs and personally, I think it sounds great. I've not got a wireless system so I'm never more than 10 feet from it. Recently a guy was selling his BG250 on eBay because he didn't think it was 'throwing it out to the back of the room'. I was surprised when I tried the BG250 out at PMT as to how loud it was and how warm sounding too. Nothing like the demos on YouTube. My fear is, I suppose, that it sounds great up close but lacks the uumph to project that sound 30 feet away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassmachine2112 Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 I,ve never heard anybody say that an Orange Terror bass is short in the underpants department. I use a SP212 cab isobaric and it carries and slams no problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 [quote name='MoJo' timestamp='1437293213' post='2824817'] The reason behind the original post is that I own both a TC Electronic BG250-115 and a Peavey BAM210. The latter is twice the weight of the former. I've been gigging the BG250 for a few weeks now in small / medium pub gigs and personally, I think it sounds great. I've not got a wireless system so I'm never more than 10 feet from it. Recently a guy was selling his BG250 on eBay because he didn't think it was 'throwing it out to the back of the room'. I was surprised when I tried the BG250 out at PMT as to how loud it was and how warm sounding too. Nothing like the demos on YouTube. My fear is, I suppose, that it sounds great up close but lacks the uumph to project that sound 30 feet away. [/quote] it all depends on how big his room is doesn't it? If it sounds good to you- don't worry about it and just play it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bassman7755 Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 One possible factor is that a lot of people are coming to class D after using other dedicated bass amps with some amount of baked in tone, whereas my previous setup was a modular rig with a PA power amp and to my ears the class D amps behave much the same as that setup i.e. clean and flat at the output stage with all the "tone" coming from the preamp. Interestingly class D is gaining ground in certain audiophile circles, this one in particular is interesting ... http://www.templeaudio.net/bantamgold.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbs Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 My 2p's worth. I own both a class A and D amp. In the studio I can tell no difference what so ever between them, however when playing live, I find the volume in both to be of equal measure, but to my ears the class D amp sounds like it is lacking in depth, whereas the class A seems to have that in bucketloads, which I can actually both feel and hear onstage through my cabinet. This is with both EQ settings in similar configuration. Not exactly an answer with any scientific based rationale I know, but that just my playing/gigging experience of these amps, and I'm sure I tell the difference in a blind test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MoJo Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 [quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1437296206' post='2824842'] it all depends on how big his room is doesn't it? If it sounds good to you- don't worry about it and just play it. [/quote] I do like it. So much in fact that I was considering getting a second to stack on top for bigger gigs, save me having to wrestle with the back breaking 93lbs that is the BAM210 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 In answer to your question, this nonsense doesn't even qualify as an "urban myth". Play your gear knowing that you get a good sound, on stage and in the room. Another cab is always a good idea. You tone improves 500% when you add a second cab. There are many guys out there incapable of getting a good sound out of any amp. Generalisations are pointless in this discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Some all valve amps lack punch and 'uumph', and the same applies to all classes of amp. It depends on the design. I have one all valve amp and a few modern class D amps. They are all incredibly loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hubrad Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Nobody even yet mentioned the fact of all these different cabs and speakers. . One 210 will be different to the next and to a 115 or 212. To get a proper comparison, surely you'd have to take two or more heads along to one gig or room and put them into the same cab in the same context? I agonised for ages when buying an amp, but now I'll spend years learning its ins and outs through my cabs. A beautiful journey! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skychaserhigh Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 I used lightweight class D amps for a few years but went back to my class A/B amps. They just sound better to me , much more depth of tone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 (edited) It's a simple and tangible difference. I've got both and whilst both put out good sounds IMO, there is sound and then there is sound. Maybe it doesn't matter at the Dog and Duck and the reasons are understandable but you can guess which gets the rave reviews from bass players and most of them wouldn't recognise the gear in itself so the comments aren't because they see/hear... they just hear and feel. The other pointer is drummers... and the comment ratio is the about the same. Edited July 19, 2015 by JTUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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