Rich Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 [b]OK. That was the final off-topic word on this thread. Anything else that does not pertain to the subject in hand, i.e. sets & set lists and keeping crowds entertained etc, will be deleted without notice. Feel free to carry on any such discussions via PM.[/b] [b]Note that this comment is addressed to everyone, not to any particular individuals.[/b] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnythenotes Posted July 24, 2015 Author Share Posted July 24, 2015 Such a shame that the discussion started a few days ago has ended like this..... I started this thread in good faith, believing it would be of interest to all on this forum, and it rapidly took off, and if nothing else certainly split opinion over how we all view what we do, and how others do it. Might be just as well to pull the plug on it now, as we can all see how it has ended..... Put a lock on it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary mac Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 [quote name='jonnythenotes' timestamp='1437738234' post='2828652'] Such a shame that the discussion started a few days ago has ended like this..... I started this thread in good faith, believing it would be of interest to all on this forum, and it rapidly took off, and if nothing else certainly split opinion over how we all view what we do, and how others do it. Might be just as well to pull the plug on it now, as we can all see how it has ended..... Put a lock on it.... [/quote] No need at the moment Jonny. Peace has broken out and it is a subject worth exploring and discussing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr zed Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 This (apart from the off-topic nonsense) is an interesting and enjoyable thread. I was brought up on classic rock (actually as it was the first time round we just used to call it rock). Played the genre I listened to for a few years in various bands until I hooked up with a few guys that wanted to do something a bit different and more current. This was a change and a bit of a risk as every pub band around our way were playing rock music at the time (Wishing Well, Smoke on the Water, Alright Now etc etc). This was what the pub crowd wanted to listen to and this is what the bands wanted to play. There were some stand out songs at the time and as they came into the charts we would be among the first to learn them and get them out there into the pubs (Vertigo, I predict a Riot, Golden Touch, Mr Brightside, Dakota, Sex on Fire, Sit Down etc). These were new and fresh and went down well when we first started playing them. Other songs came & went but these songs seemed to remain. What we set out to achieve (i.e. doing something different to everyone else) lasted for around 1-2 years. Then everyone seemed to be at it. I managed to last until March this year when I finally admitted to myself that although I still love playing live, respect and enjoy being with the other band members and get a blast out of some great audience reaction & feedback that we've had, I was bored shitless! We'd start a set and by the third song I would be thinking 'oh no - not Yellow again'. I decided to leave and am now with a band playing popular covers that everyone knows but with a female singer. Yes, i'm sure some other bands play some of the stuff we do but there are not many of them. The material goes down really well and i'm enjoying every minute of it. Think Katy Perry, Avril Lavigne, Pink, Kelly Clarkeson etc etc. Oh, and the women love it. As someone mentioned earlier - women dance. Couldn't be happier. The only problem will be if everyone starts playing it (not much chance of that as it's not cool enough). As a footnote we are a 5 piece band drums, bass, 2 guitards (all forty/fifty year old blokes) with a young (twenties) female singer. All the blokes have been in classic rock/indie bands for years and we all bored with the same old same old. Take some of the attitude and energy from that background, play it in a rock/indie type of style then mix in a great female vocal and we reckon we're onto a winner! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnythenotes Posted July 24, 2015 Author Share Posted July 24, 2015 Nice one Mr Zed...... A interesting addition to the thread..... A bass player can change his spots.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtcat Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 I think maybe it's that ability to change what you play that makes playing an instrument interesting. For me playing covers is fun and at this moment in my life I enjoy playing well known stuff. A bit like members such as crez I do more disco stuff than rock and that definitely is more fulfilling to me. If however I thought for one minute that i would spend the rest of my playing career doing only that I would probably be pretty depressed but we all have the option to change what we do at any time we like. mr zed's post shows that when (or if) the day comes when you get bored of of the same old same old then there is a plethora of other options out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnythenotes Posted July 24, 2015 Author Share Posted July 24, 2015 One thing Zed mentioned, that I believe has more of an effect on a band than anything else, is the fact they have a female singer/ front person. Immediately they are in a minority, as I should imagine over 80% of all working bands are fronted by male singers...( this is purely a guess.) This fact alone will change the whole dynamic of the band, and also the type and style of songs they choose for the set... I have been in several bands with a female singers, and I always prefer the vibe they create within the band and the way the audience reacts to them... Different is good.... A sax player or brass section, violin, congas and percussion, dedicated backing singers, even some sort of a dress code that links all band members. As long as you have something that is slightly different from the mainstream, this will get you noticed. Going back to a female fronted band being an advantage... How many bands have you seen, or been invloved with that have a girl fronting the band, that use any of 'The Groundhog Day' set list... I should also think that a good quality female fronted band, playing none of the usual pub rock tunes, will get more work and attention than a similarly talented bunch of lads doing 'the usual fayre'..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 We're female fronted and do quite a few from the Groundhog Day list. Mrs Zero is perfectly happy to sing songs sung by male singers as well as female ones, though I don't think there are any Groundhog Day songs where the original vocalist was female (unless "Zombie" has made it onto the list). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnythenotes Posted July 27, 2015 Author Share Posted July 27, 2015 Hi Tauzero..... I think having a female singer doing a few Groundhog Day songs will instantly alter the audience perception of very familiar songs, as they will see and hear a different delivery and visual aspect to what they are used to.... I was at a jam night a few months ago, and a girl asked if she could sing Stuck In The Middle, we did it with her but for some strange reason, it was played with the same groove as ' Beat It'...... It was very bizarre, but absolutely brilliant. We changed two things,the gender of the singer, and the groove, and it sounded like a song that was written yesterday... A real Groundhog Day set list favourite, but taken so far away from the original version, it was great for the band to play, and for the audience to hear... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubit Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 If we were to play and someone asked us to play Mustang Sally, I would have to decline as I don't know it. I used to, but forgot it years ago. What annoys me is when I say, "sorry we don't know it", they say, "yeah you do", "no we don't ", "yeah you do, I seen you doing it last week", " no you didn't, we weren't playing last week", "yeah you were" etc. etc. etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amnesia Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 I agree with what cheddatom said about an originals band being able to entertain folk all night. I know his band, and one of the bands I play with is in the same (ish) genre - you can make it work. We even make it work without a drum kit - we have a bodhran player. Ever heard Ace of Spades played with a bodhran? You should! The set is split 60/40 I've set up a new band recently - doing purely rock covers. By that I mean Motley Crue, Skid Row, Alice in Chains, Extreme, Queensryche, Poison etc. None of what is popularly deemed 'pub rock standards'. Maybe its just where I live, but Stoke seems to have a thriving 'rock' covers scene with numerous bands playing 2 or 3 nights every week. We also have a female singer - with only one song in the set originally sung by a female vocalist. Am I bothered that we have selected none of the Sex on Dakota / Mustang over the Water type tracks? Hell no - in fact its a positive aim to not include them! Sod the punters - this band is unashamedly about us! (We also have no desire to be gigging twice per week either so limiting our venues is not a problem) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 rock covers do very well in stoke! Actually Headsticks do great in a small local pub, but in a local "venue" not so well. Going further afield to venues where people turn up expecting original music works very well. Weird! But yeh I was mainly on about the little pubs which we don't do any more, as I think these are the sorts of venues the OP is on about P.S I didn't know you had a bodran, didn't you have a full kit last time I saw you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amnesia Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 [quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1438086562' post='2831492'] Actually Headsticks do great in a small local pub, but in a local "venue" not so well. Going further afield to venues where people turn up expecting original music works very well. Weird! [/quote] I think that is a quirk of Stoke to be honest. We play in Shrewsbury regularly (Paul is from there) and we always do pretty well. [quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1438086562' post='2831492'] P.S I didn't know you had a bodran, didn't you have a full kit last time I saw you? [/quote] We did, but you know what its like with bands and member changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 well that's interesting, I'll have to catch you with the bodran some time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deep Thought Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 [quote name='bassist_lewis' timestamp='1437422845' post='2825918'] And Mr Brightside is actually quite difficult to play on guitar. [/quote] It's not a barrel of laughs to play bass and sing over either! But the place invariably goes mental when the guitarist starts that intro (providing he doesn't cock it up!), and that, at the end of the day, is what it's all about. It's also one of my favourites to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubit Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Our guitarist used to cock up the intro. regularly ! He's pretty good but just couldn't get Mr Brightside off pat. Apparently it's quite tricky to play the guitar intro.! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassjim Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 i agree with all that everyone says about set lists but here is some more problems that i find when wanting to go somewhere interesting. i play in a disco funk covers band and the set list consists of mostly the easy stuff to play because..... 1st problem is the singers range. some things sound f***ing awful when you change he key dramatically so snookered here but the main problem i have is... the rest of the band either idividually or collectivley just dont have the musicianship required. as most of the music is bass led the guitarist is the usually the first to come out with "that wont work cause..." followed by the keys player. IMO its because they find it as boring to play a "supportive " roll to me as I find it boring to be playing a "G" note for the next 5 mins whilst the guitarist goes off on yet another face pulling oddysey in a rock band. they are in it more for the cash than the music so its a case of accepting at least its regular gigging till the right people come along. In past bands with better players doing a mixture of everything we did something we liked every 4-5 tunes and it worked well on a regular crowd but i think playing covers has to be looked at like doing an adult nursery school sing a long..........if its too obscure or complicated they dont know whats going on and lose interest. bunch of muppets!!! (them ,not us ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamdenRob Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 [quote name='bassjim' timestamp='1438342672' post='2833706'] i think playing covers has to be looked at like doing an adult nursery school sing a long......... [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Admiral Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 [quote name='bassjim' timestamp='1438342672' post='2833706'] i agree with all that everyone says about set lists but here is some more problems that i find when wanting to go somewhere interesting. i play in a disco funk covers band and the set list consists of mostly the easy stuff to play because..... 1st problem is the singers range. some things sound f***ing awful when you change he key dramatically so snookered here but the main problem i have is... the rest of the band either idividually or collectivley just dont have the musicianship required. as most of the music is bass led the guitarist is the usually the first to come out with "that wont work cause..." followed by the keys player. IMO its because they find it as boring to play a "supportive " roll to me as I find it boring to be playing a "G" note for the next 5 mins whilst the guitarist goes off on yet another face pulling oddysey in a rock band. they are in it more for the cash than the music so its a case of accepting at least its regular gigging till the right people come along. In past bands with better players doing a mixture of everything we did something we liked every 4-5 tunes and it worked well on a regular crowd but i think playing covers has to be looked at like doing an adult nursery school sing a long..........if its too obscure or complicated they dont know whats going on and lose interest. bunch of muppets!!! (them ,not us ) [/quote] Interesting point about funk and the bass role. Nile Rodgers was on Sky a few months ago talking about the fact that he's never seen anyone play his Chic guitar parts correctly, as it's actually very hard to do, and most guitarists just thrash it out, whereas he's playing a lot of inversions, muting and picking out notes amongst the strumming. He is of course a jazzer by background and consequently knows his way around the neck properly, unlike a lot of guitarists with a rock background who have never gone beyond a pentatonic scale structure. I'll see if I can find the Youtube and come back and put it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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