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Understanding power supplies...


uk_lefty
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So my arsenal of effects has got to a point where rechargeable batteries are being abused all over the place. I'd like to buy a pedaltrain type set up and a single power supply unit but my past experience of these hasn't been good. I can't daisy chain the pedals because some won't accept it and I want to use a multi power supply that will not create noise in the pedals. I read some topics here and I'm keen on the Harley Benton but not sure if I NEED isolated power supplies or not...?
Looking to spend as little as possible.

My pedals are:
Behringer tuner
EHX Qtron
EHX bass blogger
Boss limiter enhancer

Chorus and delay pedals to be added shortly, possibly a DI as an option.

Any advice is gratefully received.
Thank you

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You could check on manufacturers websites what the milliamps are for each pedal. The milliamps might also be detailed somewhere on the pedal. That's almost more important than the voltage. Most, but not all, are 9v but the milliamps vary. Add up the total milliamps and that will let you know what power supply to look for. Isolated outputs will give you least noise but these boxes tend to be more expensive.

Edited by BassBus
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For buying PSs the things to consider are:[list]
[*]Voltages
[*]Currents (mA's)
[*]How many isolated outputs if at all (yeah, it's hard to tell which pedals need it and which don't before trying)
[*]Form-factor, mounting options, and port accessibility (it's easy to overlook this but it's actually sort of important)
[*]Input voltage of course
[/list]
The problem with looking to spend as little as possible is that if you don't really know what you need you may end up spending more. E.g. in order to economize you may think that it's best to get the smallest PS that will power your existing set of pedals, but then if you buy one or two more pedals you need to replace the whole PS or add another one. I'm sort of in this situation (or will be soon) with my Cioks.

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Digital fx pedals / multifx generally require their own aupply else much digital / clock noise gets around.
All setups will benefit from isolated supplies as daisy chains introduce 'ground loops' by definition.
A daisy chain setup may noy have any noticeable noise issues in a given situation but will be more susceptible to interference in general.
Keeping cables short will minimise this as it minimises the loop area.

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Check out item number 201418083669 on eBay.

I bought one of these recently and I have to say it's really excellent and the pretty blue lights look lovely too!
Just be aware that the UK address is complete %@##@$?@ and you will need to allow time for it to come from China where it will actually be despatched from.
Other than that I couldn't recommend it more highly!

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Have you considered going to a battery pack instead? I've ditched external power supplies and been using a single rechargeable battery to power all my effects, I use the Sanyo Eneloop Pedal Juice http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sanyo-eneloop-Pedal-Juice-battery/dp/B007BZAGW4

It's superb. I run 2x500ma multi effects units and a TC Polytune and it easily lasts 2 sets with 30-40% power leftover. And it means one less mains socket to hunt out for powering your pedals from and a less leads trailing about the stage.

Being battery powered it eliminates mains hum from entering the FX signal chain. There are two output sockets on it so you can run two daisy chains but I have to be honest, I don't know if it would eliminate nose introduced by some digital pedals, either on the same daisy chain or on a second one from the other output socket. Could be worth dropping Sanyo support an email to confirm that? But I can day I have no noise from either of my two Zoom digital multi FX units and they both run off the same single daisy chain from the battery.

Edit to add: Another plus point is the Eneloop rechargeable technology means the battery holds its charge for years so no need to worry if you charge the battery and your next gig is weeks or even months away.

Edited by stevebasshead
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[quote name='stevebasshead' timestamp='1442448827' post='2867110']
Have you considered going to a battery pack instead? I've ditched external power supplies and been using a single rechargeable battery to power all my effects, I use the Sanyo Eneloop Pedal Juice [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sanyo-eneloop-Pedal-Juice-battery/dp/B007BZAGW4"]http://www.amazon.co...y/dp/B007BZAGW4[/url]

It's superb. I run 2x500ma multi effects units and a TC Polytune and it easily lasts 2 sets with 30-40% power leftover. And it means one less mains socket to hunt out for powering your pedals from and a less leads trailing about the stage.

Being battery powered it eliminates mains hum from entering the FX signal chain. There are two output sockets on it so you can run two daisy chains but I have to be honest, I don't know if it would eliminate nose introduced by some digital pedals, either on the same daisy chain or on a second one from the other output socket. Could be worth dropping Sanyo support an email to confirm that? But I can day I have no noise from either of my two Zoom digital multi FX units and they both run off the same single daisy chain from the battery.

Edit to add: Another plus point is the Eneloop rechargeable technology means the battery holds its charge for years so no need to worry if you charge the battery and your next gig is weeks or even months away.
[/quote]

That looks a nice product - especially the type of battery that holds its charge over time.
There's no fundamental reason it would get rid of 'digital' noise as all units still share the same 'Ground' connection so the noise can still get around.
A good mains powered supply shouldn't be introducing any mains hum into its dc output. But the 'ground loops' can pick up mains interference radiated from the transformers (or other frequencies from any switch mode supplies used) and so not having mains transformers etc near the pedals etc can be an advantage.
What will actually cause a noticeable problem can be tricky to guess as it all depends on the specific setup and grounding and earthing details.

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[quote name='rmorris' timestamp='1442491055' post='2867305']
But the 'ground loops' can pick up mains interference radiated from the transformers (or other frequencies from any switch mode supplies used) and so not having mains transformers etc near the pedals etc can be an advantage.[/quote]

That's exactly what I thought when I was shopping for a PS, but most of the big-name PS's actually do have the transformers right inside the main PS box, and people told me that they never had any issues.

I eventually did something which could be considered even worse, and bought 2 PS's - Cioks link Schizophrenic and Adam - which are linked by what seems to be an non-shielded adaptor, so I basically have 2 short runs of exposed 50Hz radiation right on the underside of my pedaltrain (the main cord to the Schiso and the link to the Adam) and at least 2 transformers (though these seem to be heavily shielded) but still no noticeable hum...

Edited by ProfFrink
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[quote name='ProfFrink' timestamp='1442493681' post='2867335']
That's exactly what I thought when I was shopping for a PS, but most of the big-name PS's actually do have the transformers right inside the main PS box, and people told me that they never had any issues.

I eventually did something which could be considered even worse, and bought 2 PS's - Cioks link Schizophrenic and Adam - which are linked by what seems to be an non-shielded adaptor, so I basically have 2 short runs of exposed 50Hz radiation right on the underside of my pedaltrain (the main cord to the Schiso and the link to the Adam) and at least 2 transformers (though these seem to be heavily shielded) but still no noticeable hum...
[/quote]

yes - much depends on the how the transformers are shielded and the type of transformer construction - Toroidal types generally have less radiated noise than 'standard' construction types ( the exact term eludes me - end of a long day :-). Or to be more exact the field produced is more contained and so the cables etc 'see' less of it.

It's worthwhile bearing in mind that what might not be noticed in a live / rehearsal / amp situation might become an issue in recording / DI etc.

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[quote name='Painy' timestamp='1442405302' post='2866678']
Check out item number 201418083669 on eBay.

I bought one of these recently and I have to say it's really excellent and the pretty blue lights look lovely too!
Just be aware that the UK address is complete %@##@$?@ and you will need to allow time for it to come from China where it will actually be despatched from.
Other than that I couldn't recommend it more highly!
[/quote]

Had a look at this and while I had something similar in the past that did a great job I'm reluctant to dive in too quick and get this wrong. I don't fully understand miliamps, voltages, etc but I see this has most outputs at 100mA, one of my ehx pedals requires 200mA, some of my pedals just dont say! So I'm guessing there is a chance there will not be sufficient current?

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Well one of the outputs does provide 500mA and most pedals will be under 100mA so for most applications you'd probably be okay but of course you only need a couple of pedals to be over that for it to be a potential problem.
What I can say though is that mine manages to happily power this little lot (except the Wah which has its own PSU simply as there are not enough outputs to run that off it too).

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  • 2 weeks later...

Bought the Caline off eBay, got very fast delivery from whoever the cheapest 100% feedback seller was. All hooked up and tested at home last night, very very pleased! Taking it out with the band tonight but aside from tidying up the loose cable length I can't see any issues until I acquire more pedals, which I'm keen not to do! Thanks for the recommendation!

Edited by uk_lefty
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[quote name='uk_lefty' timestamp='1444204262' post='2881011']
Bought the Celine off eBay, got very fast delivery from whoever the cheapest 100% feedback seller was. All hooked up and tested at home last night, very very pleased! Taking it out with the band tonight but aside from tidying up the loose cable length I can't see any issues until I acquire more pedals, which I'm keen not to do! Thanks for the recommendation!
[/quote]

Glad you're getting on with it. I've certainly been really impressed with mine. If I do ever need another PSU then I'd get another one of these without a moment's hesitation.

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