sprocketflup Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Ok, Im going to stick my head above the parapet here a little. Lately Ive noticed a bit of an issue with one of my basses, in as much as my fretting hand has been cramping up during shows, quite painfully at times. My band does 2 hour+ gigs ( waits for Blue to call me a lightweight ), during which I use 3 different basses, my fretless I can get away with a very light 'fret' on the board, I reckon i could play this bass all day with no problems. I also use a CV jazz with rounds on, that also doesn't need much fretting pressure. However, the main bass I use is a Squier PJ that is strung with flats, and its this one that is giving me the issue. I have to press a lot harder with my fretting fingers on this than the others, and I can really feel the difference by the time we get to the later half of our show. Im not too clever with the physics of all this, what can i do to make the bass easier to play? Is it just a case of restringing with lighter guage strings? Its currently running my favoured 40-60-80-95 as all my basses do. (Fender flatwounds on this one) Is there anything else I can do? And how come this one needs so much more input than the others? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiOgon Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Probably the nut needs cutting - lowering the strings = less fretting pressure & far nicer to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bassman7755 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 [quote name='KiOgon' timestamp='1448146412' post='2913358'] Probably the nut needs cutting - lowering the strings = less fretting pressure & far nicer to play. [/quote] Yeah theres no downside to getting the nut cut properly, it will make it easier to play and make intonation more consistent, probably worth having someone do a full setup on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-bbb Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 I've occasionally noticed a similar effect but not as severe and believed it to be due to different neck profile shapes affecting the left hand grip slightly ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franzbassist Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Yes, definitely worth getting your nut checked (!), and lower tension flats could help too. LA Bella white nylons are an excellent choice in this regard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprocketflup Posted November 22, 2015 Author Share Posted November 22, 2015 Nut surgery it is then! Now there's a sentence I thought Id never write...... Thanks for the replys, didn't think of that, Ill report back with my findings/results once ive got busy with the tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprocketflup Posted November 22, 2015 Author Share Posted November 22, 2015 (edited) Walbassist - thanks for the string recommendation. Are there any hard and fast rules for discovering what tension a particular set of strings may have before putting them on? Or is is just a case of suck it and see? Edited November 22, 2015 by sprocketflup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Low tension flats = TI (Thomastik Infeld). Very nice sounding and very low tension underhand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvia Bluejay Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Fender flats are just about the horridest flats I've ever tried - stiff as a steel rod. Only good for the bin. Before taking a file to the nut, try with the makes of flats recommended by the previous posters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 What is the action like between basses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreek Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 I'm using Status black tapewounds on one of my basses - low tension and available in 40-100 - soooo nice to use and £14.00 for the set (ex P&P). If you don't get on with them I'll buy them off you.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 [quote name='sprocketflup' timestamp='1448145871' post='2913354'] my fretting hand has been cramping up during shows, quite painfully at times. [/quote] Cramping where, exactly. Thumb, palm, wrist, fore arm? Are all your basses sitting at the same height and angle when you play them? How are high are the strings on the bass you can't play compared to the ones you can? Does your hand cramp up on the same numbers each time? Have you tried playing the numbers you cramp up on with another bass to see what happens? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassist_lewis Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 (edited) [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1448193859' post='2913528'] What is the action like between basses? [/quote] This would have been my initial reaction, in my experience this has the most affect on hand fatigue after technique, which, given the problem only affects one bass, isn't the issue. A badly cut nut will only affect the first 3-4 frets and is more difficult to correct if done badly/unnecessarily. And as said above, flats are stiffer and require more effort to play anyway. Edited November 22, 2015 by bassist_lewis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprocketflup Posted November 22, 2015 Author Share Posted November 22, 2015 A perfunctory glance at the 3 basses sat on their rack yields that yes, the nut on the offending bass does appear a tad higher than the other two. I'll get the calipers out at some point and measure before I get busy with a chisel. I say chisel as what I'm thinking of doing is popping the nut off and sanding a little away from the underside as opposed to filing string slots. To answer some of the other questions from above - I have a high action on most basses as Im a fairly clumsy player, the jazz has a higher action than the offending P tho as I slap that in a few places. The fretless's action is comparitively low as that's used for more delicate stuff and Im less wont to 'dig in' on it. Chris B - same angle yes, tho I do move them around as required, and the pain is spread across the palm end of the fingers and the centre of the hand as opposed to wrist area, fingertips usually fine. Im finding myself stretching the fingers back between numbers during the set now, which doesn't look to professional in my eyes. Im not getting any younger either so thats also a consideration (44 and been playing guitars of varying size for almost 30 years) re particular songs - yes, we do a rendition of Kate Bushes Sensual World which is all played on the lowest F and its octave and a few notes in between, Ive come to dread it. Ive taken to playing some of the Low F's with my thumb to give a bit of relief to my poor fingers. Its looking like the song is not going to appear on next years set list which I cant say Im sorry about. 'King of The Mountain' gives me grief too - another song featuring the lowest (4 string) F octave primarily. Anyways, all advice gratefully received, and Bluejays wisdom of trying some diff strings prior to wood butchery shall be heeded. The Greek - these Status flats you refer to, can i get them online? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyctes Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 I've only ever bought Status Hotwires online. Also, for Sensual World, consider a capo at the first fret? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telebass Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 (edited) As someone who was nearly in your shoes at one point, I would also recommend the TI JF344 Jazz Flats. But get the nut done as well. It will make the bass nicer to play, whatever strings it has. And I'd really recommend, being ancient, learning to play with a low setup and a light touch, letting the amp do the work. Edited November 22, 2015 by Telebass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedmanzie Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 I've tried loads of 'light' flats - the least tension are Thomastiks but you may find those a bit 'rubber band-like', followed by LaBella 'low tension' flats which are not [i]quite[/i] as light as Thomastik and have a less boingy feel! Then definitely get the nut optimally set up, it makes a [i]lot[/i] of difference. Frets make a difference too, tiny vintage frets require a firmer hold in my experience but I find this more noticeable on guitar to be honest. Then finally you've got the neck shape - maybe your PJ is a less comfortable shape for you? Are you fretting harder because it is a thinner neck? I find switching between neck shapes can cause problems, but i'm a bit of a woos when it comes to left arm problems... the tiniest difference usually flares something up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cameltoe Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 If you want to get the nut cut, there is a lovely gentleman in Mayfield, East Sussex that will do it for you! As above posters have said, set-up is key here. The nut will be the first point of call, but seriously DON'T chisel the bottom off. You need to take a little bit of material off at a time and recheck. If you take too much off the bottom and refit you're knackered. Have a google, there is plenty of info online. You may want to invest in a set of nut files, but B&Q do a miniature set that if you're careful, will do the job. After that, you need to check the relief is similar across all the basses (as much as the frets will let you get away with, anyway, some may be more forgiving than others ). I like to see slightly less than a credit card width here when fretted at 1st and last, but this depends on the bass and the frets! Some of my basses have more worn-in frets that will allow a very straight neck. If it starts rattling when restrung on frets 1-6 you'll know the neck is too straight. Finally, adjust the action. You should be able to get the action a bit lower with the flats! Best of luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprocketflup Posted November 23, 2015 Author Share Posted November 23, 2015 [quote name='Telebass' timestamp='1448222424' post='2913825'] As someone who was nearly in your shoes at one point, I would also recommend the TI JF344 Jazz Flats. But get the nut done as well. It will make the bass nicer to play, whatever strings it has. And I'd really recommend, being ancient, learning to play with a low setup and a light touch, letting the amp do the work. [/quote] Hi Telebass, you say nearly in my shoes, do you mean regarding hand cramps or did you play bass for Cloudbusting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprocketflup Posted November 23, 2015 Author Share Posted November 23, 2015 A big thanks to everyone for their input on this, I have some new strings on order and shall mess around with set up before getting drastic with tools. I'll report back soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telebass Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 (edited) [quote name='sprocketflup' timestamp='1448314545' post='2914472'] Hi Telebass, you say nearly in my shoes, do you mean regarding hand cramps or did you play bass for Cloudbusting? [/quote] Almost! One of those decisions that I hummed and hahed about. Still have the music ( ALL of it) somewhere. ..Not having a fretless was one snag! Get the bass to Tom Anfield Guitars in Saltash and have a new bone nut cut from scratch. You'll be amazed at the difference. Edited November 24, 2015 by Telebass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprocketflup Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 (edited) lol i didnt have one either so i made one by attacking an old five string with a shovel. Got me the gig and then held up for another 18months before I replaced it, its still in my loft Well im glad you decided not to, its been a thoroughly enjoyable pursuit for me, who knew there was life after the fourth fret? Edited November 24, 2015 by sprocketflup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davo-London Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) Could you post a video of your fretting hand so we can check your technique? It is possible that there is something else going on. I have played other folks' basses and foudn them unplayable. Everyone's different! Davo Edited November 25, 2015 by Davo-London Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 [quote name='Davo-London' timestamp='1448449714' post='2915462'] . . . there is something else going on. [/quote] I'd agree. Sounds like technique related more than strings or even set up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cameltoe Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1448454446' post='2915522'] I'd agree. Sounds like technique related more than strings or even set up. [/quote] Quite possibly but if the bass that's causing issues is set up with a higher action and flatwounds, this will definitely fatigue his muscles quicker than he's used to. I've played basses with an action you could park a bus under before, and they don't take long for you to really feel the extra work you're having to put in to get the thing to play! Cramping is never good, however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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