Jump to content


rack tuners


63 replies to this topic

#41 The Burpster

    Schrödinger's catfood........

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,510 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lincoln (ish)
  • Interests:Bass, Bikes, Guns, Golf....using every 24 hours wisely!

Posted 09 January 2008 - 07:49 PM

Has anyone tried the floor stompy version of the Peterson?

I doont have and doubt if I will ever have a rack as my Mesa is just to cute to be bound by a rack, however the tuners have the best reputation I just wondered about having a stopm verison instead.....
Every day you wake up is a good day!

Bob

#42 EBS_freak

    "He who dies with the most toys wins"

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,954 posts
  • Location:Monster Munch

Posted 10 January 2008 - 01:59 AM

View PostThe Burpster, on Jan 9 2008, 07:49 PM, said:

Has anyone tried the floor stompy version of the Peterson?

I doont have and doubt if I will ever have a rack as my Mesa is just to cute to be bound by a rack, however the tuners have the best reputation I just wondered about having a stopm verison instead.....

Stomp version is near as enough damn it the same... but obviously without all the inputs, outputs... oh - and the screensaver!
check out my function band video on YouTube - The Blue Smarties Show Reel
check out my function band website here - The Blues Smarties
check out my other function band video on YouTube - The Beat Factor Show Reel (new one soon, with a bit of luck!)
check out my other function band website here - The Beat Factor

#43 SMART

    Fully fledged member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 255 posts

Posted 13 January 2008 - 06:28 PM

We're going to place another order on Peterson in the not too distant future so if anyone of you 'real and genuine' Basschaters are interested we could perhaps put together a special price and deal for you. Obviously, the more of you that join in the better the price we could offer you. Let's us know what you are looking (Peterson product) for asap.

Just some thoughts....

Ciao

Ian
[/quote]

Guys

We'll be ordering more StroboStomp 2's as well so let me know if any 'Basschaters' are interested so we bring enough of those over as well.

Deadline for orders is now two weeks from today as the guys at Peterson will be at NAMM and it always takes a tad longer to get thing sorted when it's on. As soon as I have the special prices including UK mainland delivery calculated I'll email each interested party on the forum so we can keep it special amongst ourselves. Capice??

Ciao

Ian

Ian

#44 Muppet

    ppppick up a penguin

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 730 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Alconbury, Cambridgeshire

Posted 13 January 2008 - 10:41 PM

View PostEBS_freak, on Jan 9 2008, 10:20 AM, said:


I'm an idiot and can't understand. Can you explain in idiot language?

#45 SMART

    Fully fledged member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 255 posts

Posted 13 January 2008 - 11:14 PM

View PostMuppet, on Jan 13 2008, 10:41 PM, said:

I'm an idiot and can't understand. Can you explain in idiot language?

Unfortunately, there is no easy two sentence way of describing this unless you already understand tuning temperaments (unless some 'clever clogs' out there can kindly assist!):

Try this:

Peterson's proprietary GTR™ Sweetened Tuning™ is designed to improve the sound of musical intervals on guitar, especially 4ths and 5ths. By taking advantage of a few coincidences such as the preponderance of 4th and 5th intervals appearing in many chord positions, the particular E-A-D-G-B-E arrangement of standard guitar tuning (and also the half-step down or "dropped" tuning variation), and the less-than-perfect overtones of vibrating strings, Peterson has introduced a number of slight variations which can maximize the tuning quality of chords.

These guitar-specific Sweeteners™, including G5TH and P5TH in the AutoStrobe™ 490-ST, and GTR in the Virtual Strobe™ series, improve tuning in general but are especially important for "power chords" which feature 4th and 5th intervals. To gain maximum benefit from this feature, the guitar should be intonated (string lengths adjusted) using the strobe tuner in Equal preset, and tuned thereafter using the Guitar (GTR) temperament preset.

And this:

Traditional temperaments generally apply to instruments like the piano or organ, where every note can be separately tuned.

What about a guitar, where the frets and intonation are usually set up for equal temperament?

It turns out that significant improvements can be achieved if you set the tuning precisely enough. Peterson's proprietary GTR temperament (one of Peterson's many Sweetened Tunings™) is designed to improve the sound of musical intervals on standard and "drop tuned" guitars (EADGBE or one half-step below these), especially the 4th and 5th intervals. This improvement is most noticeable when playing in overdriven mode, where the guitar’s resulting accentuated overtones normally clash when tuned in "standard" equal temperament. The GTR temperament makes discrete adjustments to equal temperament, which has a positive effect on the overall sound.

And you really need to understand how notes on a scale are spaced and behave to understand the positive benefits of Peterson's Sweetened Tunings:

It is perhaps a cruel joke on all of us to be given such remarkable sensitivity in judging musical pitch intervals between simultaneous sounds. The mathematics of positioning (tempering) 12 scale notes in an octave prevents any more than a handful of perfectly harmonious chords for any one tuning of those notes (temperament). We have limited options:
1. We can equally space the 12 notes in the octaves so that chords of each given type (major, minor, b5#7-9, etc.) sound equally good in all keys. This is called equal temperament, the common "standard" in modern music. Unfortunately, this temperament scheme also guarantees that all chords of a given type sound equally bad! Not even one chord will have intervals that sound exactly in tune!

2. We can purposely shift certain scale notes closer to or farther from their neighbors to make perfect intervals or chords in some places. If we choose wisely, we can make the most important chords in a given key be the perfect ones. This is the concept behind Just Intonation (JST in the Temperament Menu of Peterson tuners). In the key of C, the chords of C major, F major, and G major can each have perfectly harmonious tuning intervals. Unfortunately, other chords, especially those in more remote keys like C# and F#, sound much worse than they would in equal temperament. If an instrument like a piano is tuned in Just Major temperament for the key of C, notes and chords that fall in the C Major scale sound wonderful. Modulating to the key of G, most chords sound good, some not quite as good. If one takes a more adventurous trek into the key of E, say, some real "ear-sores" start to develop in certain chords and intervals. Historically, the clinkers are dubbed "wolf tones" which gives some indication of their "charm".

3. Between the extremes given above, there are countless compromises. Why not settle for some nearly perfect chords in the most popular key signatures, while keeping the "wolves" at bay in the less traveled ones? There are about as many such "well tempered" scales as there have been minds conceiving of them. Every temperament generally takes the name of its earliest inventor or biggest proponent. Some of the more successful ones, like Werkmeister (WRK), Young (YNG), Kirnberger (KRN), and Kellner (KLN), are included in current models of Peterson tuners. Besides stock historic temperaments, Peterson Virtual Strobe™ Tuners also feature unique instrument-specific temperaments such as GTR™ for guitar, BAS for bass, and (VS-II/V-SAM™ only) E9 & C6 tempered tuning for pedal steel guitar. The VS-S StroboStomp™ pedal tuner/DI also features four optimized Buzz Feiten Tuning System® presets for electric guitar, acoustic guitar, bass guitar and 12-string guitar. All Peterson tuners (except the VS-1) are user- programmable, allowing the saving of up to 244 user temperaments to memory. The V-SAM allows you to adjust any temperament to any one of 12 roots, making these temperaments available in any specific key.

I do hope this helps.

Ciao

Ian

PS Sweetened Tunings in short get the very best out of your instrument

Edited by SMART, 13 January 2008 - 11:15 PM.


#46 bassmandan

    Fully fledged member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 187 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wolverhampton

Posted 14 January 2008 - 05:26 PM

View PostBigRedX, on Jan 6 2008, 05:45 PM, said:

I am definitely interested in the Stroborack especially if you can do a special "Basschat deal"
Keep us all informed please!

+1 ..... some toerag lifted my DTR2000 from a gig a few months back and I need to replace it with like, or better. Do we have a 'ball park' notion of what kinda BC price is likely yet?

The first (and technically crappest) NÖE Bass ever made has become my main instrument these days.... and these:
Warwick Thumb 5 2006 Ltd Ed "Dirty Blonde" - 2 x Warwick LX4s - Spector/SIMS 5 stringy thingy (chav-bass)
Spector ReBop4DLX QM Ibanezii - CT5NT and AFR series A105F (fretless) Squier Jazz (needs work!)
a pretty rare 1985 Westone 'Rail' Bass in pearl white, an acoustic prototype by Lamaq, and a Crafter acoustic
..... and a 3/4 size Czech made upright

via an assortment of pedals (when I'm in the mood) EBS - bassIQ, OctaBass, UniChorus; BOSS - AW-3, RC-50; EH-Muff

into an EBS TD650 and Evo Pro Line 410

me

my dayjob

I used to play in this band but escaped recently


#47 EBS_freak

    "He who dies with the most toys wins"

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,954 posts
  • Location:Monster Munch

Posted 14 January 2008 - 06:44 PM

View Postbassmandan, on Jan 14 2008, 05:26 PM, said:

+1 ..... some toerag lifted my DTR2000 from a gig a few months back and I need to replace it with like, or better. Do we have a 'ball park' notion of what kinda BC price is likely yet?

Hex bolts man. The opportunist never carries them.
check out my function band video on YouTube - The Blue Smarties Show Reel
check out my function band website here - The Blues Smarties
check out my other function band video on YouTube - The Beat Factor Show Reel (new one soon, with a bit of luck!)
check out my other function band website here - The Beat Factor

#48 Hit&Run

    Fully fledged member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 494 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Costa-Del-Bradford

Posted 14 January 2008 - 06:44 PM

SWR have got a rackmount tuner in the latest issue of bass player.

#49 The Burpster

    Schrödinger's catfood........

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,510 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lincoln (ish)
  • Interests:Bass, Bikes, Guns, Golf....using every 24 hours wisely!

Posted 14 January 2008 - 07:33 PM

Thomann can do it for £160 sent... (stomp 2)

If you can do one for less than £150 I'm in......

:)
Every day you wake up is a good day!

Bob

#50 EBS_freak

    "He who dies with the most toys wins"

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,954 posts
  • Location:Monster Munch

Posted 15 January 2008 - 11:33 AM

View PostHit&Run, on Jan 14 2008, 06:44 PM, said:

SWR have got a rackmount tuner in the latest issue of bass player.


SWR tuner here -

http://www.swrsound.com/products/search.ph...rtno=4485000000

- looks quite meaty. Anybody know the price?

Edited by EBS_freak, 15 January 2008 - 11:37 AM.

check out my function band video on YouTube - The Blue Smarties Show Reel
check out my function band website here - The Blues Smarties
check out my other function band video on YouTube - The Beat Factor Show Reel (new one soon, with a bit of luck!)
check out my other function band website here - The Beat Factor

#51 BigRedX

    RockinRollin VampireMan

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,584 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Nottingham

Posted 15 January 2008 - 07:58 PM

120V only according to the web site blurb. So you'll need a step down transformer for use here in the UK.

Posted Image


#52 SMART

    Fully fledged member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 255 posts

Posted 16 January 2008 - 06:59 AM

View PostThe Burpster, on Jan 14 2008, 07:33 PM, said:

Thomann can do it for £160 sent... (stomp 2)

If you can do one for less than £150 I'm in......

:)

Hi Burpster

That'a ten four buddy! It will be under £150 for a StroboStomp 2 including UK mainland delivery (Royal Mail special Delivery Next Day).

Ciao

Ian

Edited by SMART, 16 January 2008 - 07:00 AM.


#53 EBS_freak

    "He who dies with the most toys wins"

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,954 posts
  • Location:Monster Munch

Posted 16 January 2008 - 03:56 PM

View PostBigRedX, on Jan 15 2008, 07:58 PM, said:

120V only according to the web site blurb. So you'll need a step down transformer for use here in the UK.

I was going to write that - but then look in the pdf specs. There appears to be support for 240v also.
check out my function band video on YouTube - The Blue Smarties Show Reel
check out my function band website here - The Blues Smarties
check out my other function band video on YouTube - The Beat Factor Show Reel (new one soon, with a bit of luck!)
check out my other function band website here - The Beat Factor

#54 The Burpster

    Schrödinger's catfood........

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,510 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lincoln (ish)
  • Interests:Bass, Bikes, Guns, Golf....using every 24 hours wisely!

Posted 17 January 2008 - 09:01 AM

The pedal isnt tho'


:) :huh: ;) ;)
Every day you wake up is a good day!

Bob

#55 EBS_freak

    "He who dies with the most toys wins"

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,954 posts
  • Location:Monster Munch

Posted 17 January 2008 - 11:18 AM

View PostThe Burpster, on Jan 17 2008, 09:01 AM, said:

The pedal isnt tho'


:) :huh: ;) ;)

Truth! We have two conversations kinda weaving through the thread now!
check out my function band video on YouTube - The Blue Smarties Show Reel
check out my function band website here - The Blues Smarties
check out my other function band video on YouTube - The Beat Factor Show Reel (new one soon, with a bit of luck!)
check out my other function band website here - The Beat Factor

#56 GremlinAndy

    Dalendless Shid...

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 647 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sheffield

Posted 04 February 2008 - 07:14 PM

View PostEBS_freak, on Jan 4 2008, 02:36 PM, said:

It's interesting to read GremlinAndy's review above. Give the fact that I paid roughly the same as what a DTR2000 would cost me, I wonder if his overall review figure would change...

Sorry for the delayed response guys.

I think it's a much better unit than the Korg but I didn't realise the prices were so close. (??? someone above says they're close right? though I can't find evidence of that myself) I bought mine from Thomman, and I know I paid a LOT more for it than the korg.

When I gave it a low mark for price I was also including the comparison with the real *budget* tuners you can get. I mean many bits of kit come with them built in for *free* now. (Like the Tascam CD bass trainer and the MP3 bass trainer too. And the Pod Pro...) That takes my tuner count to 5 including the Peterson.
So it is with that in mind that I'll maintain my comment that they are an expensive piece of gear, and very few people need one of these, when a £15 clip on one will (kinda) do the job.
Besides... what is the value of reviews where everything gets a 10/10 score. People need to know what the down side of kit is. And on this, it's the price and only the price.

EDIT:
Here we go...
Thomman Prices:

PETERSON STROBORACK VIRTUAL STROBE RACK 286.83GBP

KORG DTR-2000 BL 178.06GBP

HARLEY BENTON GT6/200 3.55GBP

Edited by GremlinAndy, 05 February 2008 - 11:23 AM.

variously using: Shuker, Zon, Warwick, Status, Modulus, Musicman, Fender, Lightwave, Thunderfunk, Aguilar, Hellborg, Powersoft, Schroeder, Empirical Labs, Eventide, Lexicon, TC Electronic, Peterson, X2, Moog, Epifani, Eden, Shure, Darkglass, Pigtronix, EarthQuakerDevices, Keeley, MXR, USound, 3Leaf Audio, [.SFX], EBS, Analogman, Mooer. Talent
My Basschat Feedback thread

#57 EBS_freak

    "He who dies with the most toys wins"

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,954 posts
  • Location:Monster Munch

Posted 04 February 2008 - 11:19 PM

View PostGremlinAndy, on Feb 4 2008, 07:14 PM, said:

PETERSON STROBORACK VIRTUAL STROBE RACK 286.83GBP

Ouch. You got ripped.
check out my function band video on YouTube - The Blue Smarties Show Reel
check out my function band website here - The Blues Smarties
check out my other function band video on YouTube - The Beat Factor Show Reel (new one soon, with a bit of luck!)
check out my other function band website here - The Beat Factor

#58 woodster

    Fully fledged member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 408 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Southampton

Posted 05 February 2008 - 07:22 AM

View PostEBS_freak, on Jan 16 2008, 03:56 PM, said:

I was going to write that - but then look in the pdf specs. There appears to be support for 240v also.


Ive currently got an SWR RU-N2N on it's way from the US. According to the marketing guy from SWR, the 240V version will not be coming out for anything up to a year!! The tuner is basically a re-packaged version of the Fender tuner that they bundled with the Fender heads a while back. The blue lights are way cooler and a decent voltage converter is only about £30.

My tuner is $250 with the shipping
Chris

Overwater
Fender
Markbass

www.artful.dj

Lovetown Music

River Studios, Southampton

#59 GremlinAndy

    Dalendless Shid...

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 647 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sheffield

Posted 05 February 2008 - 10:16 AM

View PostEBS_freak, on Feb 4 2008, 11:19 PM, said:

Ouch. You got ripped.


So it would seem. I gather that I can get them £50 cheaper now that they're more readily available.

I guess that *might* have affected my review, but when you consider that a functioning alternative can be bought for less than £5... Nah I'll leave the quote about price as it is.


(Availability at the time I bought mine was very low so even if I'd known they were going to rip me for £50 I might still have gone for it)

I'm reminded of a *joke/proverb/whatever* from my childhood.
...A woman goes into a greengrocers and asks for half a dozen bananas. The greengrocer says "that'll be £1". The woman is outraged. "a pound?!!! at the greengrocers across the road they're only 70p!". "Why don't you buy your bananas there then?" asks the greengrocer. "Because they don't have any" she says, slightly annoyed... To which he replies "Well, when I don't have any in, mine are ony 50p!"

...and that's the thing about prices.

Andy

Edited by GremlinAndy, 05 February 2008 - 11:28 AM.

variously using: Shuker, Zon, Warwick, Status, Modulus, Musicman, Fender, Lightwave, Thunderfunk, Aguilar, Hellborg, Powersoft, Schroeder, Empirical Labs, Eventide, Lexicon, TC Electronic, Peterson, X2, Moog, Epifani, Eden, Shure, Darkglass, Pigtronix, EarthQuakerDevices, Keeley, MXR, USound, 3Leaf Audio, [.SFX], EBS, Analogman, Mooer. Talent
My Basschat Feedback thread

#60 EBS_freak

    "He who dies with the most toys wins"

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,954 posts
  • Location:Monster Munch

Posted 05 February 2008 - 10:29 AM

GremlinAndy - You got PM dude.

I don't want to quote prices on here as I want to let SMART do their thing.

Edited by EBS_freak, 05 February 2008 - 01:07 PM.

check out my function band video on YouTube - The Blue Smarties Show Reel
check out my function band website here - The Blues Smarties
check out my other function band video on YouTube - The Beat Factor Show Reel (new one soon, with a bit of luck!)
check out my other function band website here - The Beat Factor

#61 rhymes

    No longer a newbie

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 19 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bath, Somerset

Posted 23 February 2008 - 12:21 PM

Hi guys,

This is my first post on here, but wondered if anyone could give me some advice/info...

I have a couple of week tour coming up soon and am trying to throw together a decent rig on a (real) tight budget!

I have managed to grab a Warwick Profet 5.1 for 199 ex-demo. Going for a Warwick 611 and was looking at chucking a Behringer rack tuner in for good measure (my current tuner isn't brilliant).

I play an Ibanex SRX505 5 string mainly, so need the 5th string tuning ability. What I wanted to know about the Behringer tuner is that a lot of people have said they have problems with lag/delay tuning the low B - is this just when using the tuner in "standard mode"? As far as I can see, it has a bass mode and transpose (we tune to dropped C) - do these make any difference, and is the delay really that bad?

Also, anyone have any tips on the best way to connect this to the amp? Is it best to run the signal direct into the tuner and run that signal to the amp, or run the bass input into the amp and use the tuner output to the tuner for muted tuning?

Thanks.

Rhymes

#62 jacko

    Fully fledged member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 380 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:edinburgh

Posted 23 February 2008 - 10:35 PM

View Postrhymes, on Feb 23 2008, 12:21 PM, said:

Hi guys,

This is my first post on here, but wondered if anyone could give me some advice/info...

I have a couple of week tour coming up soon and am trying to throw together a decent rig on a (real) tight budget!

I have managed to grab a Warwick Profet 5.1 for 199 ex-demo. Going for a Warwick 611 and was looking at chucking a Behringer rack tuner in for good measure (my current tuner isn't brilliant).

I play an Ibanex SRX505 5 string mainly, so need the 5th string tuning ability. What I wanted to know about the Behringer tuner is that a lot of people have said they have problems with lag/delay tuning the low B - is this just when using the tuner in "standard mode"? As far as I can see, it has a bass mode and transpose (we tune to dropped C) - do these make any difference, and is the delay really that bad?

Also, anyone have any tips on the best way to connect this to the amp? Is it best to run the signal direct into the tuner and run that signal to the amp, or run the bass input into the amp and use the tuner output to the tuner for muted tuning?

Thanks.

Rhymes

My experience of the behringer is that it didn't tune the low B at all, even playing a 12th fret harmonic. This was on 2 seperate units.

If you're building a rack based rig (and your behringer comments suggest you are), then most preamps have a tuner out jack. The majority are now being built with a mute facility that leaves the tuner out facility active. this is infinitely better than running your input signal through any other device.
Alembic Rogue fretless 5 string
Alembic Mark King deluxe 5 string
Alembic Epic fretted 5 string
Kelly dragonfly 5 string fretless
Customised '79 Precision
Jackos' homemade fretless
Mesa boogie Mpulse 600
Mesa Boogie PH 212
Mesa Boogie PH 210
Fender TBP1 pre amp.
Ampeg SVP pre amp
QSC PLX2402
Eden E210C combo
EBS pedals
DR strings

***********************

feedback page http://basschat.co.u...back-for-jacko/

#63 rhymes

    No longer a newbie

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 19 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bath, Somerset

Posted 24 February 2008 - 04:33 PM

View Postjacko, on Feb 23 2008, 10:35 PM, said:

My experience of the behringer is that it didn't tune the low B at all, even playing a 12th fret harmonic. This was on 2 seperate units.

If you're building a rack based rig (and your behringer comments suggest you are), then most preamps have a tuner out jack. The majority are now being built with a mute facility that leaves the tuner out facility active. this is infinitely better than running your input signal through any other device.

Hmmm. Thanks for replying Jacko.

Unfortunately, I think I am going to have to give it a try - I will have my small back up tuner and if it is that bad, flog it after the tour and upgrade to a Korg or something better when I have a few quid more.

Anyway, thanks again. :)

edit: I picked up a Korg DTR2 and 4u Warwick rack case for £100 on ebay today. Behringer problem solved...

Edited by rhymes, 24 February 2008 - 08:55 PM.


#64 GremlinAndy

    Dalendless Shid...

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 647 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sheffield

Posted 26 February 2008 - 09:02 PM

View Postrhymes, on Feb 24 2008, 04:33 PM, said:

Hmmm. Thanks for replying Jacko.

Unfortunately, I think I am going to have to give it a try - I will have my small back up tuner and if it is that bad, flog it after the tour and upgrade to a Korg or something better when I have a few quid more.

Anyway, thanks again. :)

edit: I picked up a Korg DTR2 and 4u Warwick rack case for £100 on ebay today. Behringer problem solved...


Glad to hear that. I think you made the right choice. You'll not regret the Korg. and it'll always have a resale value. Can't say the same for Berrys because they're so cheap new.
variously using: Shuker, Zon, Warwick, Status, Modulus, Musicman, Fender, Lightwave, Thunderfunk, Aguilar, Hellborg, Powersoft, Schroeder, Empirical Labs, Eventide, Lexicon, TC Electronic, Peterson, X2, Moog, Epifani, Eden, Shure, Darkglass, Pigtronix, EarthQuakerDevices, Keeley, MXR, USound, 3Leaf Audio, [.SFX], EBS, Analogman, Mooer. Talent
My Basschat Feedback thread





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users