karlfer Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 [quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1452275361' post='2948449'] With typical gain staging half way on many amps and with many basses equates to full power on louder notes. Plenty of amps have the gain stages set so that they reach full power well before noon with typical input signals, because people assume that if an amp is as loud with the master volume at 10 o'clock as another amp with the master at 2 o'clock, then the first amp must be more powerful. Sadly it isn't but it sells amps in shops and means we end up with lots of amps on the market where the second half of knob rotation is worthless as you're already at full power by then. [/quote] So which amps are "guilty" of this then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barkin Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 [quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1452275361' post='2948449'] With typical gain staging half way on many amps and with many basses equates to full power on louder notes. Plenty of amps have the gain stages set so that they reach full power well before noon with typical input signals, because people assume that if an amp is as loud with the master volume at 10 o'clock as another amp with the master at 2 o'clock, then the first amp must be more powerful. Sadly it isn't but it sells amps in shops and means we end up with lots of amps on the market where the second half of knob rotation is worthless as you're already at full power by then. [/quote] [quote name='karlfer' timestamp='1452283500' post='2948576'] So which amps are "guilty" of this then? [/quote] My old Acoustic head definitely was. My LH500 definitely isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merton Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 There was at least one generation of Trace Elliots which did this too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassmayhem Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Well, I ordered one and get it delivered on Friday. Seems like I get the first one out there. (At least [i]out there here in Europe[/i]...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashdown Engineering Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 [quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1452275361' post='2948449'] With typical gain staging half way on many amps and with many basses equates to full power on louder notes. Plenty of amps have the gain stages set so that they reach full power well before noon with typical input signals, because people assume that if an amp is as loud with the master volume at 10 o'clock as another amp with the master at 2 o'clock, then the first amp must be more powerful. Sadly it isn't but it sells amps in shops and means we end up with lots of amps on the market where the second half of knob rotation is worthless as you're already at full power by then. [/quote] THIS!!! What most players/customers don't understand is that the master volume on an amp and where it is in relation to volume is completely irrelevant. All depends on what type of pot is used(Log vs Linear) amongst other things. There's a certain little amp(quite a popular one) that actually puts out its full power(500 watts) at 11 o'clock on the master volume and after that a limiter/compressor kicks in to protect the amp but there is no increase in volume after 11 o clock just a load of compression As Alex points out what this means is people think 'wow this amp is loud and I'm not even halfway!' whereas in reality the user thinks they've got loads in reserve they are actually at the limit already. This has been happening for years and is cheeky for sure and the brand I'm talking about aren't the only ones to do this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlfer Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 OK, so we have had two seriously acknowledged industry experts say the same thing. Both their brands are seriously respected. HOW do us Luddites find out which amps ARE NOT pulling this full power at half volume on the rotaries. These should be empirical facts so surely you guys can name the companies that do this, without fear of being accused of competetive bias? Your comments have left me confused and somewhat disappointed in some companies being a bit shy with the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassmayhem Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Well: delivered! Really nice amp, fat like a Streamliner and clarity like the Shuttles... [IMG]http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd169/bassmayhem/20160205_170603%20-%20kopia_zpslysdz9b2.jpg[/IMG] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lw. Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 [quote name='Ashdown Engineering' timestamp='1454685908' post='2972072'] There's a certain little amp(quite a popular one) that actually puts out its full power(500 watts) at 11 o'clock on the master volume and after that a limiter/compressor kicks in to protect the amp but there is no increase in volume after 11 o clock just a load of compression As Alex points out what this means is people think 'wow this amp is loud and I'm not even halfway!' whereas in reality the user thinks they've got loads in reserve they are actually at the limit already. This has been happening for years and is cheeky for sure and the brand I'm talking about aren't the only ones to do this... [/quote] Interesting claims especially coming from an official (?) account of a manufacturer (and so competitor). Seems like naming the brand & showing the proof is in order to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lw. Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 @Bassmayhem - head looks good. Hopefully ordering myself something from TKS (via Bassgear) at the end of the month too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Rock Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 [quote name='karlfer' timestamp='1454689875' post='2972146'] OK, so we have had two seriously acknowledged industry experts say the same thing. Both their brands are seriously respected. HOW do us Luddites find out which amps ARE NOT pulling this full power at half volume on the rotaries. These should be empirical facts so surely you guys can name the companies that do this, without fear of being accused of competetive bias? Your comments have left me confused and somewhat disappointed in some companies being a bit shy with the truth. [/quote] Glockenklang have the most 'honest' volume ramping I've come across - very even increase in volume from 1 right through to 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlfer Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 [quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1454691262' post='2972169'] Glockenklang have the most 'honest' volume ramping I've come across - very even increase in volume from 1 right through to 10 [/quote] Thanks Roland, appreciated It's probably been done before, but might be a thought for a members anecdotal thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brensabre79 Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 It's never bothered me, as long as you have enough headroom on your amp what's the problem? Although thinking about it, I don't really go past 9 o'clock on my Carvin so if it is ramped the snide way I suppose it would be nice to get a bit more control instead of trying to eek the knob up by thousandths of a millimeter during a half bar stop! But that amp is crazy loud anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40hz Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 My old Warwick ProFet 3.2 was the opposite. People used to say they were underpowered for 300w, truth being it was one of the few amps with a truely linear volume pot and would keep dishing out power all the way to 10. In fact I'd say it was much cleaner and more powerful than many of it's 300w contemporaries that I tried at the time. My MarkBass LM250 by comparison, has nothing left to give after 60% of the way round the volume pot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassmayhem Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Well, how many of us play at full volume? None, I hope. I don't care if the volume is full half way up, like "a little goes a long way", or if I have to crank the knob all way around. I never go that far anyway. As long as the amp sounds good I'm satisfied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stylon Pilson Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 [quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1454692107' post='2972185'] It's never bothered me, as long as you have enough headroom on your amp what's the problem? [/quote] That's the problem. I used to have an Ashdown Electric Blue - 180W into a 12" speaker. Did a few gigs with master volume at about halfway, and thought I had plenty of headroom. Then, at one particularly loud gig, I needed some more oomph, only to be disappointed to discover that turning up louder wasn't giving me any significant increase in volume. That was a bit of a rude awakening, I can tell you. S.P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LayDownThaFunk Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 I remember using that same Ashdown combo at a gig once. Dimed master, dimed gain. Tone wasn't that bad... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jecklin Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 What does dimed mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyder Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 [quote name='Jecklin' timestamp='1454700962' post='2972296'] What does dimed mean? [/quote] I was thinking the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Dime = 10 cents = dialled up to 10... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bassman7755 Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 [quote name='karlfer' timestamp='1452283500' post='2948576'] So which amps are "guilty" of this then? [/quote] Having plenty of "spare" master volume throw is more or less essential because there are so many factors feeding into the output level of the preamp (low frequency EQ cut/boost being the main one). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bassman7755 Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 [quote name='karlfer' timestamp='1454689875' post='2972146'] OK, so we have had two seriously acknowledged industry experts say the same thing. Both their brands are seriously respected. HOW do us Luddites find out which amps ARE NOT pulling this full power at half volume on the rotaries. [/quote] Someone boosting the lows heavily might be maxing out an amp at half master while someone else using a flat EQ might need say 3/4 master or more to max out the same amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 [quote name='Stylon Pilson' timestamp='1454696195' post='2972238'] That's the problem. I used to have an Ashdown Electric Blue - 180W into a 12" speaker. Did a few gigs with master volume at about halfway, and thought I had plenty of headroom. Then, at one particularly loud gig, I needed some more oomph, only to be disappointed to discover that turning up louder wasn't giving me any significant increase in volume. That was a bit of a rude awakening, I can tell you. S.P. [/quote] sometimes that is not the amp so much but a limitation of the speaker, as you find out by adding another speaker and discovering the amp keeps getting louder a bit more as you keep turning the volume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlfer Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 I've never had a problem with "volume", I'm just curious at the comments of Alex and Ashdown. I would like to know what amps are on full vol at half way round the rotaries. Their comments, not mine Just like some evidence of the statements. I don't usually troll but if you are going to make statements like that, it would be kinda good to back them up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linear Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 I was under the impression that a non-linear master knob that produces its maximum volume before it's turned all the way up was pretty normal for bass amps. It doesn't seem that unreasonable to me. Just like I don't expect pressing the accelerator pedal in a car from half way to the floor will provide twice as much acceleration, or that I have to press it all the way to the floor to get the maximum. My practice amp at home runs doesn't produce much additional volume after the half way mark, but it's a cheap 65W thing. I wouldn't expect this from a more expensive amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jecklin Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 (edited) [quote name='spyder' timestamp='1454701544' post='2972301'] I was thinking the same. [/quote] Glad it's not just me then [quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1454701905' post='2972307'] Dime = 10 cents = dialled up to 10... [/quote] Ah right thank you Muzz. I go easy on the Americanisms myself. I was thinking dimed meant 1/10th. But if you're all the way up on 10, where can you go from there? Edited February 6, 2016 by Jecklin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.gif.9ad672bb8b84505709f76b39c8c256ec.gif)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.