Wonky2 Posted January 22, 2016 Author Share Posted January 22, 2016 Good idea Ive got a guy local whi i kniw and another i dont know but is happy to have a chat.... Not sure either know much about repairs but both good players so some comparrisons wiill be good.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljbass Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 the idea of "trial bridge" is worth a try Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonky2 Posted January 22, 2016 Author Share Posted January 22, 2016 Great! Ill give it a go... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonky2 Posted January 22, 2016 Author Share Posted January 22, 2016 If possible, can any uf you guys take some measurments of string hight on your bass at end of finger board to bottom of string ? I know they will all be different but an average would give me a rule of thumb starting point ....... If you could measure string hight at fb end to bottom of string and list : E= xx mm A=xx mm D=xx mm G=xx mm It woul be a great help. And for my own clarity, am i right to think in general the radius should be lower on e side ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunburstjazz1967 Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) Afaik when people say they have "an 8-10mm" action this is 8mm on the G RISING to 10mm on the E, not lower on the E side. Edit to say "mine is about 8-10mm" lol. Edited January 22, 2016 by sunburstjazz1967 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonky2 Posted January 22, 2016 Author Share Posted January 22, 2016 Great, thanks for that info.... If I'd have gone off what I "thought" I'd have been tryin to get a far lower action (ignorance is not bliss) The reason I asked was every bass I saw seemed to have an action of about what you have said,10mm, so I figured it should not be as low as I had originally thought..... It will take some getting used to ! Second coat of sickens has just gone on after wire wool flat down... Colour is a great match now...... Should be able to oil neck tomorrow then it's just the bridge.... (I've been putting it off Hahahah) I can't tell you how much I am dying to get it strung up !!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunburstjazz1967 Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) Good luck, I think 6-8 would be seen as fairly low and a cheaper bass might need the extra height to get some thump going. Some rockabillies wouldn't get a tune out of it lower than 14mm, lol. String type and tension will alter things too, I think 8-10 will be a good starting point to cover various styles of music. Edited January 22, 2016 by sunburstjazz1967 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljbass Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) I think 7 to 10 mm at the end of the fingerboard for G to E is standard. I have about 4 to 7 for the lowest position of adjustable bridge. But it depends on how well dressed is your fingerboard. You have to copy the fingerboard radius first, than increase the diameter equally and change the curve as lower strings are rising. Don't forget there will be slots for the strings, but they should not be deeper than 1/2 of the string diameter. Reather to make the bridge higher at first... Useful info about the neck finish http://www.stringemporium.com/refinish-upright-bass-neck.htm btw there is also a nice picture of the typical shape of transition between oiled and laquered finish on the neck heel... Edited January 22, 2016 by ljbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonky2 Posted January 22, 2016 Author Share Posted January 22, 2016 Thanks guys.... Thanks for the link ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljbass Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Check the string height on the nut too! It should be just slightly more than the credit card thickness. It affects playability a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonky2 Posted January 22, 2016 Author Share Posted January 22, 2016 Yes, i have done a few decent bass/ guitar set ups beofre and i know just hiw important nut hight or string slot can be... Never done frettless though so new territory for wonky The heel varnish to neck finish on the pics on the web site (great site by the way) ive done it differently, most due to not seeing any before but also i doubt ill be venturing down that far for a while yet ! My finish..... Almost done.... Another 0000 grade wire wool session over the lot before final finish i think.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonky2 Posted January 22, 2016 Author Share Posted January 22, 2016 When im finished ill try and put pics up better from photobucket and maybe do a write up, im sure others may feel they have the skills to do the donkey work like i have and save on luthier costs.... Maybe taking it to a luthier for a final set up afterwards to keep costs down. Its just wood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonky2 Posted January 25, 2016 Author Share Posted January 25, 2016 So tonight I've been at it again....... Another (I think) final coat of the sickens to the neck heel to get the finish just a tad darker.... I had wired wooded it flat again too as there were just a few specs that were not as I'd like..... Some tiny places just don't seem to be getting darker, possibly a bit of glue left in nooks I cannot sand too well ? Hardly noticeable but still ..... Also,my he finger board.... When I last worked on it (before the weekend) I had Danish oiled the neck...... I think some may have gotten onto the fingerboard and in places some finger prints on the finger board....well, it seemed to contaminate the finish and dull it down This was kind of a good thing though really as the high gloss finish that the laquer had given, although very good, I felt it should really be dulled somewhat as it seemed out of context with the rest of the bass....... So, decision was made for me, I had to remove the Danish oil contaminants now anyway.... I took some 0000 grade steel wool and flattened the finger board off again, this also provided good opportunity to blend and smooth the transition from neck to finger board on the edges of the neck. I didn't have any really fine wet n dry paper left to final finish it so i used some cutting polish (autosol !) it worked a treat. Removed the swirls the wire wool had left and gave a finish somewhere between dull/ Matt and gloss, much like the original finish. I've checked the finish now to see how it deals with finger grease/ sweat and it doesn't leave horrible marks like it did before.... So hopefully this finish will be good. A final buff with a clean cloth to make sure no contaminants will affect the strings and I think I can move on. (I'll get it strings up one day I promise!) After that I was back onto bridge fitting. Sand paper on the deck again and back and forth about ten million times. I now have the height right at the feet and it's time to go down a few grades on the paper and try to get a closer fit. This is very time consuming and labour intensive. The bridge will need thinning on the front side as it's quite thick and then I'll be onto marking up the night from the fret board and applying my radius template..... Can I ask, does anyone apply a finish to the bridge such as Danish oil or are they to be left bare..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunburstjazz1967 Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 Mine is bare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonky2 Posted January 26, 2016 Author Share Posted January 26, 2016 I thought that would likely be the case...... I prefer the unfinished look and id imagine it will have some degree of tonal influence, even if only minute... More sanding tonight...... Cant wait to get the thing strung up but must resist the urge to plough on with out care.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunburstjazz1967 Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 Great work so far, keep it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonky2 Posted January 30, 2016 Author Share Posted January 30, 2016 Finally...... Strung up (rough) It plays but needs set up now....... Just spending some time admiring it in one peice im happy with my work but may see professional input from a luthier for set up now, allthough i could easily iron out the few issues which arecapparent at this point..... It sounds nice, but i have no real context to put it in or make comparrison, but to my ear its nice.... The neck is thicker then im used to and will take some getting used too and it is quite physical to play right now, but, its litterally strings on and rough..... Hope either i ir a luthier can get a good set up out of it and ease things up But for now, im happy enough just looking at it ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubsonicSimpleton Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Well done, congratulations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRev Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Excellent job, well done! Play it for a bit before taking it to a luthier for a set up. You'll have a better idea how you want it set up once you've had some playing hours under your fingers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonky2 Posted January 31, 2016 Author Share Posted January 31, 2016 (edited) Yes will do, thanks guys... Last night was a late one.... I played it for for a while and immediatly a few things were apparently. The curve of the bridge made the action/string hight feel too high in places making the transition between strings for the right hand disproportionate, i marked the bridge further on a and d strings to the hights which i would lower them further, removed it an made further adjustments, dropping the string notches to the new markings and the sanding the nut down to ensure only half of the string is below the notch. It made a good Improvment.... I would add that it is easier to mark the strings in situ, slacken the string and set aside, make the notch adjust ment and restring/tension. Doing this a little at a time. Once they are all right, make a pencil mark too run through each notch allowing for half of string thickness and remove bridge to resand down to the new line. Worth noting, when marking notches, make the notch marginally less than you would think as on tension the string itself will settle liwer than the notch looks. G string is a little lower than i would prefer so will continue to fettle! Also nut hight doesnt look great, certainly isnt "business card" kind of hight ! Edited January 31, 2016 by Wonky2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kairyu Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Kudos on your hard work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonky2 Posted February 1, 2016 Author Share Posted February 1, 2016 (edited) Thank you kairyu , Still working slowly on the set up.... Lower nut slots a little at a time... The radius i had set origionally on the bridge has niw been changed. It felt combersome in regard to right hand playing across strings, g was too low, A was too high... Bit more fiddling ,dropping string notches a little lower and reprofiling radius to suit... Its getting there. What i can say so far....... Its bloody hard work playing kne of these things! Hahaha ...... Its improving the more i work on the set up, but string tension is high, i think id like softer tension on the strings.... And id like to brighten the sound a little if thats possible ? Not sure how thats done ither than strings, but will make minor adjustments on bridge possition to see if that chnages things. Its not bad, it sound nice and warm but id lime a more mid sounding sound if possible ? Still got to thin the bridge down towards the crown a fair bit so maybe that will make a differance, im sure it will. Going to play another bassists bass tomorrow so will have some better referance and also have a decent player take her for a test drive, see if ive passed my db luthier 101 crash course Edited February 1, 2016 by Wonky2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kairyu Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 One thing on the note of bass tone; while a lot of factors can affect the sound of a upright bass, one factor that does seem to be overlooked is how you play it! Sounds obvious/silly, but your technique will come into play a lot when generating a good tone on upright bass. The closer you pick with your right hand towards the end of the fingerboard, the brighter it will sound. Getting a lot of flesh on the string with your picking hand will also help to build a nice resonant sound. Your left hand technique will also dictate your sound a lot; I've personally found I get more note definition and 'ping' if I use the tips of my fingers as opposed to the pads of my fingers. I would advise having someone play your bass and stand in front of it & have a listen, or better yet, record yourself and someone else playing the same bass line on your bass and do an A/B comparison. Do note that what you hear playing the instrument isn't necessarily what listeners here due to the way the instrument projects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonky2 Posted February 1, 2016 Author Share Posted February 1, 2016 Thanks kairyu, i will do that... I usually do with my acoustic guitars as they sound a whole lot different out front than when playing.... So yes, good point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonky2 Posted February 1, 2016 Author Share Posted February 1, 2016 Tonight has been a good eye opener.... I went to visit another player nearby. An old school guy with a lot of playing experience..... Forst of all, what i wanted was to see, examine and play anither bass. One which has been set up well and played regular by a working player. Imediately i noticed some fundamental differences. And allthough, by his reckoning, i had set up my bass quite well and made a good job of the repair, i could tell instantly what changes i needed to make. Tje reference point of another imstrument has been pricless. String hight will be reduced a little further. I didnt want to set it up too low, but i now understand it is possible. String tension.... This was an interesting one..... I LoVED his string set up/ tension / action... He told me to told me to throw away my e string, shift the a,d,and g over and buy a high c string. Im not sure if that is normal practice but his bass felt and sounded fantastic to me, i could actually play it quite well..... Tomorrow i will be making some final bridge hight adjusments and dropping the string notches by approx 2/3 mm...... I. Also going to take that opportunity to widen my string spacing evr so slightly as i much prefared the wider feel of his set up. Mine were as id read in a guide book set at 7/8" (22.5ish'mm) his were 1 1/16" (26ish mm) ....so approx 2mm either way out....3.5/4mm wider..... I also thinned the bridge down tonight , must confess to using my first power tool in the project, a belt sand. I used it clamped upside down on yhe bench and worked the bridge thinner on the flat 90' side...... Its worked well. Last thing is sound..... It was clear that his bass had alot more thump than mine, im not sure if that is just the quality of his bass over mine or if its a set up issue... His had thump and the sound was deffinately coming from the body of the bass, mine sounded like it had less thud, depth like the voice was that of the string rather than the body.....? Any suggestions on that...? Im loathed tomrun off to,a luthier as i have learnt so much by doing this myself. The quality of the workmanship isnt really the issue, its the knowledge beind the reason which i have had to read, research and ask you guys for guidance.... Its coming together and hopfully a bit more work and itnwill be sweet... Thanks for all your help guys Wonky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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