A room full of Amps & Cabs

[deksawyer]

So, 3 lonely, sad, geeky but happy bassists got together in my rehearsal room earlier tonight (not forgetting Jose's girlfriend) and had a bit of fun with some nice basses, amps and cabs. It was very interesting. Thanks to Stephen (largo) for bringing in the MoMark, the 2 Vanderkley cabs, and the Shuker 5 string Jazz. And to Jose (mcnach) for bringing the Genz Benz, 4 TKS cabs, 2 Barefaced cabs and the right handed double of my own basses . I added the Tecamp rig and the Mesa D-800 Subway. We never tried my practice SWR350 with 2 Yamaha 2x10 cabs setup cause I think we might have been scared heavy things might have sounded better.

Full writeup and lowdown to come soon. Again, it was very interesting......

I had to photo the gear as a panorama as it was too wide for my phone, so apologies if things are a bit skewed here and there.

ALL THE AMPS/CABS


STINGRAYS R US


STINGRAYS & SHUKER R US


STEPHEN PRETENDING HE CAN PLAY A 4 STRING


JOSE PRETENDING HE CAN PLAY A5 STRING


ME, JUST PRETENDING


And guys, please pitch in with your own thoughts - don't wait for me.....

D.

[discreet]

Wow, that's a [i]lot[/i] of cabbage! Funny how perceptions change... those lightweight rigs look big and heavy to me now. A few short years ago they would not have. I await the write-up with bated trousers.

PS: Your rehearsal room looks very posh. Ours looks like a filthy shed at the bottom of the garden. Because it is.

Edited January 28, 2016 by discreet

[deksawyer]

Interestingly, my Tecamp cab is the heaviest out of the assembled cabs tonight, and that only weighs 20kg!

[discreet]

[quote name='deksawyer' timestamp='1453941775' post='2964616']
Interestingly, my Tecamp cab is the heaviest out of the assembled cabs tonight, and that only weighs 20kg!
[/quote]

20kg isn't actually THAT heavy... but it's all relative. I have a cab lined up that is 7kg or thereabouts.

[gary mac]

I need to get myself along to one of these sort of geek fests

Looks great and some lovely kit on show.

[CamdenRob]

So come on then chaps which one sounded the best?

[IanA]

Now that looks a fun evening, can't wait to hear the feedback

[largo]

First of all, I'd like to thank Deek (deksawyer) for use of his rehearsal space. And a massive thanks to both him & Jose (mcnach) for bringing along some great gear. Like Deek said, all a bit geeky & sad but 3 happy bass players. Not sure what Jose's girlfriend thought of it all. She does play bass too so not a lost cause.

I think what came across last night was all the gear, thankfully including my own, sounded top notch. To put things into perspective, I tend to play with a low-mid tone preferring a bit of "honk" in my sound, preferring that to deep, rich lows & crystal highs.

I must say that the opinions below are purely my own.

We played through each set of cabs (never one on its own) using the Mesa Subway D800, Genz Streamline 900 and MoMark TA800 amps.

The TKS 1126 are beautiful looking cabs, even the red vinyl didn't look bad and matched Jose's shoes beautifully. Tone using the Genz and Mesa was scooped to my ears, a clear, defined low & bright highs. Using my own MoMark the tone was closer to the sound I like, more even a bit of mid-bark to them. My amp was set flat at this stage.

The TKS S112 again are beautiful looking cabs, I wish I'd worn my blue shoes to match Very light as well. Tone was definitely more mid-setting. Even using the deep switch on Deeks' Mesa amp didn't give me enough lows and I'm not after much. I reckon that the tone from these cabs would sit very well in a band mix with PA support. I wouldn't like to use them without but that's just me.

The BF Compact & BB2 weren't so good looking, sorry Jose. However, tone-wise they were very nice. A lot of bottom-end & highs, again a little scooped sounding to my ears. But bringing in a touch of mids sorted this and gave me a lovely tone. Very loud and would be perfect if you didn't have any PA support.

The Vanderkley 210MNT were great looking too, size & weight very similar to the 1126 cabs. Tone, I felt was in between the blue & red TKS so more "heft" to the sound but still with the natural mid I like. Sorry guys, but thankfully this was closest to the tone I prefer. Must be the 10's These can definitely go loud as Deeks deep-switch on the Mesa proved.

In short, I'd be happy with any of these cabs they all have their pluses. However, thankfully I'm happy with my own cab choice. I was surprised with the tone from the Streamliner, I owned a 600 for about a week and sold it as I never got a usable tone from it. I know Jose has the EQ set all over the place, big Bass cut & highest mid setting but it sounded great. The Mesa was also fantastic and if they did a rackmount-version I'd get it. My Markbass is very mid-sounding in comparison (I know it's not but both Mesa & Genz are bass heavy IMHO) but I'm OK with that and can dial in a bit of extra bass if I need to.

And that's my thoughts. I'll let the other guys add their tuppence worth too.

Edited January 28, 2016 by largo

[Conan]

[quote name='deksawyer' timestamp='1453940643' post='2964609']



[/quote]

Isn't that Jose's current set-up? Didn't the rest of you bring any cabs?

[IanA]

Those 210mnt's are so cool! I would have loved to have brought my Puma 900 and 112mnt's for comparison but the distance was just too far.

[Kevin Dean]

Did any of the set ups obviously move more air than the others ?

[mcnach]

[quote name='Kevin Dean' timestamp='1453987709' post='2964971']
Did any of the set ups obviously move more air than the others ?
[/quote]

I'd say the Barefaced. Perhaps unsurprisingly

But the TKS 1126 or the Vanderkley were not shy at all either!

The S112 pair sounds great to me, but when you place them next to those others, they feel a bit like an underdeveloped teenager in a Mr Universe contest
If yesterday were a test in a shop, I don't think I would have chosen the S112. However, fortunately, I *know* how they sound in a band situation and they are very good, just not as powerful. But the three of us have slightly different tonal goals... I think Deek really hated the S112

I'll write my impressions in more detail later.

[deksawyer]

Here are my thoughts.

First of all, as mentioned we all went looking for a different tone, even with 2 very alike Stingrays. We never followed any kind of plan, system or protocol in testing these, as we maybe should have, but these are my simple thoughts of switching the Mesa D800 between them all.

The Red TKS [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]1126 [/font][/color]pair - these were the highlight of the night for me, and I even liked the red colour. If they weren't spoken for I think I would have asked Jose to just leave them with me and handed over the cash. They were fat, loud, clean and just the right size weight. Very similar in sound to the Vanderlekeys in fact.

The Blue TKS S112 pair - I didn't hate them but they weren't for me. Too thin and weak sounding, but amazing weight (i.e. no weight!) and size. They would work in small pubs and jazz gigs, but again, for me, would struggle in a rock environment. Both pairs of cabs were beautifully made though, that's for sure.

Barefaced Compact/Big Baby 2 pair - They were loud, tight, fat and light, and very very nice sounding to my ears. I was mightily impressed. Looks might be an issue for some people as they still have a homemade, albeit nicely done finish, but the paint was flaking off in parts and made them look slightly tatty. They can be touched up which maybe can be seen as a bonus. This is a nice loud setup.

Vanderkley [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]210MNT [/font][/color]pair - Again, very nicely made and they're big sounding cabs - quite a lot like the Red TKS pair but with more mids. The tweeter is very nice sounding and highly effective. I'm not keen on the red baffle, but that's just me. They're also a nice size and weight.

Tecamp M212 - we never gave this a try with all the cabs lined up but Stephen had a play before Jose arrived. And since the cab is mine, I can give an insight into it. For me, it's an easy 1 cab solution. It's light, it's loud, it's punchy. It's maybe like a mixture of the Red/Blue TKS cabs. I'll be hanging onto it for now.

The biggest eye opener was just how different the amps were. The MoMark was very vintage sounding and very mid humped and also very loud. Jose's Genz was punchy and direct but I do believe he had some extreme EQ going on. The Mesa was big, fat and also very loud - the deep switch is too much though unless you're in a Dub outfit. Another highlight for me was plugging my Puma 500 (Gen1) into Stephens Vanderkleys - That for me was nice. Loud, very punchy, bright, tight......in fact it sounded better than the Mesa on that occasion to me.

Not a bad bit of gear was in that room last night and it just goes to show that its a personal preference which swings it or bins it when choosing gear. It was great fun trying it all.

D.

[Conan]

Great job guys! It would have been great if someone with some Bergantino cabs had been available - particularly as these seem to be the standard to which all others are compared at the moment.

[karlfer]

Strange about everybodies tonal goals isn't it

Last Sat night, BIG pub in Darwen, Lancs.
2 Black Star 2 x 12 gaytartists, 1 mic'd drummer with all the sensitivity of Viking invaders.

Stuff with bass tonal variations from smooth John Paul Jones to clanky Steve Harris.

Fender (Mex) passive P/J > PUMA 500 > 2 X TKS S112's.

No problems, even from (far away) back of pub, according to wandering gaytartist. The S112's seemed to be very naturally "punchy" without fiddling with EQ.

The only thing I would say is that I had to use a little more gain and vol on the PUMA than I had to use on my two previous Vanderkley EXT 112'S.
But in fairness, the TKS S112's are a very small box so you do need to deal with that particular compromise. They are bloody good though.

AND LIGHT

Edited January 28, 2016 by karlfer

[mcnach]

Ok... my general views...

Overall my conclusion was: I could be happy with any of them. If it weren't for BassChat I'd probably be happy with whatever I was playing, and would have more money in my pocket... but where's teh fun in that?

I knew that the TKS S112 pair was going to appear as a 'meh' proposition. It's just very different to all the others in every way. Tried alone, they sound good. Again some might love it some won't... I do. But they do not have the bottom the others have. If I had not used them already with my two bands (rehearsal only, but loud rehearsal), I would have probably left the room thinking 'nah, the S112s are definitely not for me'. But I do like my mids, and I don't go for a very bassy sound... and these do it for me. Their drawback, perhaps, is they won't get as loud as the others. The bottom end can be dealt with by using EQ. In fact they respond very well to adding bass, they retain definition and not sound boomy at all... but they just won't be able to do that at very high volumes.
For a rehearsal point of view they'll work very well.
For stage sound, they will probably be very very good: they have enough volume for anything but very large stages and they sound clear and distinct wherever you are. I enjoy that a lot.
As a sole source of bass, without PA... it will work in a small bar setting if the band is not crazy loud... but they may struggle if you want them to produce a lot of deep bass.

So, they are what they are: very small, very light... and you would not expect earth-shattering lows out of such a small box.

I'm going to have another pair of TKS S112, on Sunday, which I'm hoping will take care of the volume issue. Four of these are still a reasonable compact package over all, very easy to transport and pack away, and with the same lovely sound (for me!) just louder.
I wish I could try their S212, as it's similar to two S112s, but the box is a little deeper and it is supposed to sound similar just a bit deeper. That looks like a winner, then.

The TKS 1126s sounded very big. We tried first the S112 and then the 1126 and that's where I saw some smiles It had a lot more depth, with crystal clear highs... It sounded very good. very very good. I can't believe I am letting the red beauties go! . Using the Mesa, they sounded hefty... Using the Momark, with a good dollop of VLE filter, it was more vintagey with a good amount of midrange. Very good combination for my liking. The Streamliner sounded very clear... but we all had different preferred settings as we all had different goals. The point is that the 1126s can sound very good in a variety of ways.

The Vanderkley 210MNT were very very good too. I was very curious because when I bought the 1126s, the other contender was the 210MNT. They sounded remarkably similar. They're about the same size, weigh about the same and both have deep lows if you want them to. The Vanderkley was perhaps a bit more to my liking, actually, as it had a bit more of that midrange character that I love. But Stephen showed that the 1126 could easily do that sound using his MoMark... so there is a difference, but it's a small one and nothing that a tiny bit of EQ would not take care of.
I love the look of these cabs. I think the red panel on black looks fantastic. I'm not a big fan of carpet covering, 'though... so after hearing them side by side... I'd probably choose the 1126 over the 210MNT. Both seem to be able to deliver the goods in any gig situation. I've heard what the 1126 can do in a largeish bar with a reggae band, and really, anything they cannot do, it's definitely territory where there should be a proper PA in place to carry the bass.
The pair of 1126 fit perfectly in the boot of my A3 Sportback. It's why I bought them (among other reasons, but dimensions were important). Funny enough, Stephen, who owns the Vanderkleys, also drives an A3... but I don't know if they fit in the boot. I suspect they do, I really could not see much different in size between the two cabs.
Oh, one more thing.. the tweeter on the 210MNT is very effective and sounds very good! I'm not a big fan of tweeters, but in this case... I'd go for the tweeter version. It has a very noticeable effect across its range, and doesn't sound brittle at all. The tweeter in the 1126 seems a bit unnecessary to me: the 6" speaker gives them an extended response that makes the tweeter almost useless, I think. You can hear what it does, but it's only in the very top end... and it's not something I care for.

The Barefaced pair... they didn't look as nice as the others. I love the logo! But while I don't have an issue with the finish itself, compared to the others they did look a little more... 'industrial'. The BB2 is pristine, just dusty, but the Compact has 3-4 small marks that were acquired without needing any traumatic experience... that finish may be easy to touch up, but it is also easy to damage. I did not have a cover for it for the first couple of years, and although I have always been careful, it got a handful of little marks. Nothing much, but between them being a bit dusty and next to amazingly beautiful TKS and Vanderkley cabs... they just did not steal teh show for looks.
HOWEVER... how did they sound? Well, that was the second smile moment. They sounded big. And bigger. Incredibly big for their actual size and light weight. They also sounded very good. These don't have the more pleasing sound of the 1126 or 210MNT cabs, on their own... but they have a clearer midrange that works very well in a band situation. It's a good sounding setup that gets as loud as you can expect, and can still get louder, apparently. When trying to push the cabs to their limits on another occasion, I noticed with my Streamliner I could push to the point that you could tell you should probably not push more. That was really loud, by the way. I could never reach that point with the Barefaced... they continued to happily get louder and louder until my amp had no more to put into the speakers.
For this reason, I let the 1126 go as I favour the smaller S112 rig... but I am keeping the Barefaced around until I'm satisfied that I don't really need that volume.
I'm actually letting the Compact go, because -long story- while two BB2 can be manageable the Compact is slightly larger and makes life complicated... so I'll be keeping a single BB2 for now. If the 4x S112 perform well enough (loud enough!), then I'll probably let the BB2 go, as I do prefer the sound of the S112s. But if not, then I'll let a pair of S112 go and get a second BB2 so that I can have the small and the loud rig.

Again, whatever preferences I expressed here... they're not really big. That's why factors like size, or colour!!! become sometime deciding factors: they all sounded good to me, I could live with any of them. The S112 pair is the least powerful, so that one has the caveat that if you need really loud it is probably not the ideal setup for you. But all the other three could work just fine in any setting. Of the three 'loud' ones... I'd probably choose the Barefaced as I know it works well with the bands I play with and I would not worry about volume, while the TKS 1126 works in some settings and not so well in others, for me. But the 210MNT have an interesting midrange as a feature that distinguishes from the 1126, and they might actually give me a nicer sound while sacrificing a bit of volume, which I doubt would be an issue as they don't lack volume, that's for sure.

So, like Stephen... I went home thinking I was happy with my choices... but only because I had already experienced the S112 pair with two bands. Otherwise, I'd be thinking that it was either the Barefaced or the Vanderkley for me. But I'd be happy with the 1126 anyway

I never got to hear the Tecamp... but it was a very nice looking cab, and much lighter than I expected!

Amps... The MoMark sounded dark with a nice touch of midrange. That's the sound Stephen goes for, and it sounds great with his Shuker. I would normally use less VLE and a bit brighter sound... but that's just personal preference. The Mesa was pretty interesting. Deek played a bit with the controls and although he seemed to go mostly for deeper fatter sounds than I would go for... it was clear the amp could do other noises... It's a nice looking amp that packs a punck, and as I just realised, it can do 2 ohm... all of which puts it in the 'amps I should really check out' category. My Streamliner sounded punchy and very clear... but I don't think there was any extreme EQ, Deek If I remember correctly, I did not have the 'extra gain' button engaged... so I start from a clearer tone than when with the gain button pressed in, which is what I see most people do. The input gain was set clean, so there was no extra 'fat' applied. The bass knob was set at around 9 or 10 o'clock as I feel it has a lot of bottom end in the mid position. I was using the mids on the 2.5KHz position and boosted a little, maybe just after 1 o'clock. The treble knob I don't know where it was... it does very little with the S112s... but it wasn't that high as I don't like a lot of clang with my Stingray. But I clearly had teh less 'vintagey' sound of the three

My girlfriend sat on the floor (seen behind Stephen in one of the pictures above) listening, and afterwards she told me that we looked very cute taking pictures of our amps and talking about speakers... she started to play bass last summer and she loves bass, but she's not into the 'geeks R Us' society we seem to have here at BassChat and she was a bit disappointed that there was no more real bass playing as opposed to checking sounds...
But I had a great time

[largo]

For the record, my 2 x 210mnt fit perfectly in the boot of the A3, enough for them, a 3u flightcase with the amp and space for a lead bag. Parcel shelf on and you'd never know they were in there.

[deksawyer]

Jose, you can borrow the Mesa anytime. Just let me know....

D.

[wateroftyne]

The TKS S112 stack shines at the gig - they're not full-range solo bass cabs. They've got clear mids and tight, punchy lows where it counts - if that's your thing, of course.
M

[largo]

I've no doubt the S112 would be great in a band environment. Funnily enough when I play with the 5-piece my bass tone becomes very middy to cut through. My only reservation with the little cabs is that I'd rather be able to dial back the bass than not be able to add anymore, if that makes sense.

[mcnach]

[quote name='largo' timestamp='1454062907' post='2965872']
I've no doubt the S112 would be great in a band environment. Funnily enough when I play with the 5-piece my bass tone becomes very middy to cut through. My only reservation with the little cabs is that I'd rather be able to dial back the bass than not be able to add anymore, if that makes sense.
[/quote]

There is definitely a limit to how much bass they can produce, and it's less than the 1126 or the barefaced, for sure. But one thing I like about the S112s is that when you boost bass, it stays pretty tight and not boomy at all. However, yes, if you require more deep bass... these may not be the best for you.

[mcnach]

[quote name='deksawyer' timestamp='1454023713' post='2965669']
Jose, you can borrow the Mesa anytime. Just let me know....

D.
[/quote]


Oh, I would absolutely *love* that! You're a star!
If you really don't mind, I'd love to be able to use it for a rehearsal, if that's ok. I like what I heard the other day.

I'm actually going to be rehearsing with the RATM band in Rosyth over the next 3 Mondays, between 8-10pm. That's not a million miles away from you!
Do you think maybe I could meet you one of those days before the practice and borrow the amp? I could then return it after the practice (before 11pm), if you're happy with that.

[mcnach]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1454067071' post='2965969']


Oh, I would absolutely *love* that! You're a star!
If you really don't mind, I'd love to be able to use it for a rehearsal, if that's ok. I like what I heard the other day.

I'm actually going to be rehearsing with the RATM band in Rosyth over the next 3 Mondays, between 8-10pm. That's not a million miles away from you!
Do you think maybe I could meet you one of those days before the practice and borrow the amp? I could then return it after the practice (before 11pm), if you're happy with that.


[/quote]


erm... sorry... moving to PM.

[discreet]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1454067098' post='2965971']
erm... sorry... moving to PM.
[/quote]

Yeah, get a room!

[mcnach]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1454067739' post='2965982']
Yeah, get a room!
[/quote]

but we did! and filled it with amps!