Composing - the pace of things

[Bilbo]

I try so hard to get something going compositionally and get frustrated a lot at what I don't achieve. I have done a lot of reading (and thinking) on the issue and it is apparent that many, many composers, at the highest possible levels (Maria Sshneider, Steve Swallow etc), spend days, weeks and months (even years) looking at a piece they are working on to try to squeeze something beautiful out of an idea. I know that one of the issues that non-professional musicians are aware of is how much time the pros spend practising (the 'ten hours a day' that Janek Gwizdala talks about etc). It is apparent that the same can be said for composing. I sit in my studio and stare at the computer/guitar/bass/whatever for a few minutes or hours and think 'nothing is happening' because I don't walk away from a finished composition. Why would I? If Maria Schneider agonises over two bars for weeks, why would I expect to nail everything in one sitting? I know there are always stories about songs that were written in half an hour or whatever but those aren't the kinds of things I want to write.

I guess I just need to be more patient and let ideas flourish at their own speed. No-one ever hears the damn things anyway

[Dad3353]

Tell me about it. One has good days, and bad weeks (if not months..! ). My 'remedy', if that's what it is, is to turn on the PC and do little pieces, tests, essais, trials, pottering, sometimes only virtual instruments, sometimes with my bass or guitars. I've not done much like this with drums, yet (just once, recorded on my 'phone...), although I've acquired a 4-track specifically for jotting stuff down.
Note that these are not finished works, and have little or no forward plan; they're simply jottings, or bits of experience and/or technique that I come across, mostly spontaneously. When I feel inspired (by a pic for the Challenge, for instance...) I can usually (but not always..! ) rely on having on hand something to kick-start the process. Maybe the riff I was playing about with for 10 minutes last week..? Perhaps the latest Vst gadget I've been messing about with..? The afore-mentioned drum trial captured on the 'phone was equally sewn into a Challenge later..! On the last occasion, it was a tiny spot of bass in a TV programme I was watching on Youtube. No more than a couple of seconds, but I 'captured' it, and it turned out to feature in one of my oeuvres quite prominently..! I have a small arsenal of bits and bobs of this ilk which I can turn to when faced with a blank page. The path then starts to meander, taking on its own life and form. Once started, it's often a question of striking whilst the iron is hot, and seeing it through until the fever abates. Usually a couple of days (and nights...), could be over a week. One piece, I have had the tune in my mind (and often humming the air in the car...) for well over 40 years, and finally fitted it together to create a 20-minute opus..! Other sounds, beats, tempos or instrument combinations jostle around during sleepless nights; I often get up, see if I can capture 'em to clear my thoughts, sometimes I'll read a book instead.
Advice..? Not best placed, of course, as you'll gather, but my 'secret' would be to just 'do', whatever you have, get it down, and don't worry about 'finishing' anything at all. If it requires such, the piece itself won't let you rest; you'll have no choice in the matter. Until that call, put down any smatterings, in whatever format (dots on paper, snippets of recordings, playing through on the instrument... whatever...) and, as you say, consider that you're in good company. Schubert deliberately left the Eighth un-finished. Many renowned artists left works unfinished, for many reasons, but often because the Muse had abandoned them. She does return, sometimes, though..!

[Bilbo]

Your descriptions mirror my own experiences, Pop. I have hundreds of Curate files, Sibelius charts or good ol' fashioned manuscript paper stuffed into drawers, guitar cases and box files, just waiting for the next flicker of inspiration.

[DaveFry]

A taxidermist stuffs a dead animal and calls it a horse .
A horse-whisperer talks to a live horse in it's own language .

If we adopt for a moment the model that musical inspiration comes from something or somewhere labelled " the Muse " , then I have noticed that it's temperament is somewhat like a wild horse , or a fickle cat . One has to let it come to you (and not try to grasp it) , and talk to it in it's own language , until it feels safe and unthreatened and maybe wants to visit . The Muse prefers conducive atmospheres and openness . It feels excluded if the mind is full of judgemental thinking . It likes a sense of innocent play .In time it is possible to gain enough trust and friendship to be allowed to ride the capricious creature .

This is so beyond the realm of the taxidermist / critical-thinking-self that it takes repeated practice to suspend the judgemental thinking in order to allow room for the inspiration . However , like a lot of skills , the more you practice the Muse-whispering the easier it gets .

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86x-u-tz0MA"]https://www.youtube....h?v=86x-u-tz0MA[/url]

[Dad3353]

My Muse seems to be about as deaf as I am.

Edited March 18, 2016 by Dad3353

[CH161]

This is a very interesting topic.

I like the fact that Bilbo's initial post is making a statement rather than asking a "how do I?" question.

From my own perspective, I find that a deadline really helps push things along. Without a deadline meandering and countless options take hold and nothing ever gets finished off.

This deadline can be either real or self-imposed, but the idea that you actually 'have' to finish something by a certain date really helps me get a move on with things - and actually get them finished.

[ambient]

You can try too hard.

[Bilbo]

I struggle with transitions. I get a great riff or chord sequence, add layers of melody and counterpoint and then fail to find any form of middle eight, interlude or sequence. It all ends up feeling samey. My thoughts are, maybe if I think about it a little longer....

[DaveFry]

" The inside of the tune ( the bridge ) is the part that makes the outside sound good . "
- Thelonious Monk

[Dad3353]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1458371120' post='3006964']
I struggle with transitions. I get a great riff or chord sequence, add layers of melody and counterpoint and then fail to find any form of middle eight, interlude or sequence. It all ends up feeling samey. My thoughts are, maybe if I think about it a little longer....
[/quote]

You've already though of the obvious ones, of course, but, just in case...[list]
[*]The cycle of fifths (or fourths...)..? Not just one step; maybe two or three, then move back one step at a time until resolution..?
[*]Up a semi-tone, or a whole tone (Well, I say 'Up'; it could be 'Down', too...). It's an old trick, but it just might work...
[*]Take a wild leap into another key, then another... Surprise everyone..!
[*]A change of tempo can do wonders, too. Drop to 2/3 (from 120 to 80..?), or add 10% or so (120 to 135..?) and see what direction [i]that [/i]takes..?
[*]If there's a counter-melody in there already, tease it out and treat it as the main theme for a while, maybe coming up with a counter-melody in turn for it..? In extreme cases, rinse and repeat.
[*]If all else fails, go back to the root notes, low tempo, and compose all over again from there. Another direction will manifest itself; sew it onto the original.
[*]Pick and mix any of the above.
[*]Cognac. No more than a glass or two. A brisk walk, listen to a Mahler symphony (or Bruckner...) in a darkened room, then back to the grindstone.
[/list]
If nothing from the above works, re-paper the living room, hallway and stairs and learn macramé or origami. Composition will seem easier after all that.
Hope this helps (but I doubt it..! )

Edited March 19, 2016 by Dad3353

[The Jaywalker]

You could try using "parameters" - pick a key or perhaps an unusual scale (perhaps extract some chords from it to use in a progression); set a form of some kind eg 6 bar A section which repeats followed by a 9 bar B section. See what you come up with. After that, you can change it until you're happy.
Iterative composition is another good tactic:
Reharm a tune/standard then compose a new melody on your progression.

[ambient]

I've been experimenting using magic number cubes and the Fibonacci sequence. Which is something we've been looking at on my uni course.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1458649277' post='3009378']
I've been experimenting using magic number cubes and the Fibonacci sequence. Which is something we've been looking at on my uni course.
[/quote]

Random numbers work, too, and just as well in musical terms (depending on one's definition of music, I suppose...).

[ambient]

This was composed using the Fibonacci series.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNw_2auj1RQ"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNw_2auj1RQ[/url]

An amazing piece of music.

[Dad3353]

My point is proven.

http://www.numeridanse.tv/fr/video/648_alea

Edited March 22, 2016 by Dad3353

[ambient]

You don't like Bartok ?

[Dad3353]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1458651198' post='3009407']
You don't like Bartok ?


[/quote]

I can take it or leave it, but maths is not the solution, nor yet the way forward for wringing sense out of composition. It can be a useful kicking off point, I'd say, but, in that regard, [i]anything [/i]can be a kicking off point, hence the 'random' inference. Nothing against Bartok, nor Cage or Bouliez; just saying that Systems, [i]per se[/i], aren't 'where it's at'. Rolling a dice has as much chance of providing inspiration as following a Mandelbrot pattern or counting natural numbers.
But then again, I'm only a drummer; what would [i]I[/i] know of Music..? Listen to your mentors; they [i]surely [/i]know what they're talking about..?

[ambient]

I don't usually use a system at all. I've been experimenting with using the above, simply because I have to compose a piece that shows clear and structured planning as part of my course.