SH73 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 I have been using Ableton live lite 9 for recording. I record mic up bass amp and guitar amp.The sound is outstanding.After mixing and adding effects everything sounds to my liking but the output is weak and when I play it on my phone or car I have to almost max the volume to hear it loud enough. How do I get the output volume right like if I listened to a CD or mP3. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Is there a menu entry for effects[quote name='SH73' timestamp='1458755910' post='3010587']...Any help would be appreciated. Thanks [/quote] Does this make sense to you..? [color=#800080]Ableton normalizes when it consolidates audio, but it compensates by bringing the clip volume back down. [/color][color=#800080]So, in the arrange window, [/color][list=1] [*][color=#800080]Right-click ---> Consolidate. [/color] [*][color=#800080]Reset the clip volume to 0 db[/color] [/list] [color=#800080]... and you've got a normalized piece of audio.[/color] Give it a try; tell us how it goes, please..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 I'm not familiar with this software, but assuming you can't increase the volume on your final mixdown, compression and limiting could be the answer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 That's one of the things mastering is for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roman_sub Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Sounds like your output levels are quite low... you may get more volume by turning up the individual tracks, but compression / limiting is likely to be needed fair soon to avoid the peaks distorting. If Ableton can normalise (close) to 0db, that's easier. Quite a complex subject, but reading up on mastering is probably a good start. "loudness wars" may make interesting side-reading, too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 [quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1458759608' post='3010631'] That's one of the things mastering is for. [/quote] +1. But don't overdo it (see 'Loudness War'). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SH73 Posted March 23, 2016 Author Share Posted March 23, 2016 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1458757142' post='3010598'] Is there a menu entry for effects Does this make sense to you..? [color=#800080]Ableton normalizes when it consolidates audio, but it compensates by bringing the clip volume back down. [/color][color=#800080]So, in the arrange window, [/color][list=1] [*][color=#800080]Right-click ---> Consolidate. [/color] [*][color=#800080]Reset the clip volume to 0 db[/color] [/list] [color=#800080]... and you've got a normalized piece of audio.[/color] Give it a try; tell us how it goes, please..? [/quote] It does I'll give it a go. Many thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 [sharedmedia=core:attachments:167485] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SH73 Posted March 23, 2016 Author Share Posted March 23, 2016 [quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1458757631' post='3010605'] I'm not familiar with this software, but assuming you can't increase the volume on your final mixdown, compression and limiting could be the answer [/quote] I used compression and can increase volume but increasing volume affects clarity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SH73 Posted March 23, 2016 Author Share Posted March 23, 2016 [quote name='roman_sub' timestamp='1458761259' post='3010651'] Sounds like your output levels are quite low... you may get more volume by turning up the individual tracks, but compression / limiting is likely to be needed fair soon to avoid the peaks distorting. If Ableton can normalise (close) to 0db, that's easier. Quite a complex subject, but reading up on mastering is probably a good start. "loudness wars" may make interesting side-reading, too... [/quote] Individual tracks turned up.It's the final product where the volume plays up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouMa Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 (edited) Used ableton since year dot,try loads of onboard compression as said make sure its been normalised when rendered to mp3,unfortunately for truly good sound you need one off the better vst plugin in mastering sets/compressors,you will need to spend some dough on these get a demo that lets you do it a few times then stops.........or dare i say it be naughty and get the good pricey ones for free,not that im advocating piracy.........all in all you will need seperate vsts to get a pro sound in my opinion. Edited March 23, 2016 by YouMa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 [quote name='YouMa' timestamp='1458763621' post='3010698'] ...you will need seperate vsts to get a pro sound in my opinion. [/quote] +1. I recommend PSP Audio VintageWarmer II. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Once my final mix is rendered to Wav, I use a mastering tool called AAMS... [url="http://www.curioza.com/index.php/en/#aams"]AAMS ...[/url] Very easy to use, it has given me consistently good results over several years. The free version is all most would need; the pro version (65€; a real bargain...) has much much more. One of my 'secret weapons'; recommended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fingers211 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Cheers Dad.......that looks neat ! Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SH73 Posted March 23, 2016 Author Share Posted March 23, 2016 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1458757142' post='3010598'] Is there a menu entry for effects Does this make sense to you..? [color=#800080]Ableton normalizes when it consolidates audio, but it compensates by bringing the clip volume back down. [/color][color=#800080]So, in the arrange window, [/color][list=1] [*][color=#800080]Right-click ---> Consolidate. [/color] [*][color=#800080]Reset the clip volume to 0 db[/color] [/list] [color=#800080]... and you've got a normalized piece of audio.[/color] Give it a try; tell us how it goes, please..? [/quote] No idea where to right click. Any suggestions please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 (edited) [quote name='SH73' timestamp='1458767895' post='3010777'] No idea where to right click. Any suggestions please [/quote] I don't use Ableton; I was hoping [i]you'd[/i] recognise what an 'Arrange' window was..! I'll have a scout around and see what I can find. Meanwhile, don't you have a manual or guide..? Back shortly... Edit... OK, have a read of this ... [url="https://www.ableton.com/en/manual/arrangement-view/"]Ableton Arrangement View ...[/url] As always, I'd pass on the invaluable 'helpful hint': RTFM. No, seriously; it's a great short-cut, saving oodles of time in the long run. Hope this helps. Edited March 23, 2016 by Dad3353 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SH73 Posted March 24, 2016 Author Share Posted March 24, 2016 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1458774611' post='3010886'] I don't use Ableton; I was hoping [i]you'd[/i] recognise what an 'Arrange' window was..! I'll have a scout around and see what I can find. Meanwhile, don't you have a manual or guide..? Back shortly... Edit... OK, have a read of this ... [url="https://www.ableton.com/en/manual/arrangement-view/"]Ableton Arrangement View ...[/url] As always, I'd pass on the invaluable 'helpful hint': RTFM. No, seriously; it's a great short-cut, saving oodles of time in the long run. Hope this helps. [/quote] Haha I know what the a range arrangement view is and read the manual too.Thanks anyhoo.I always ask as it may have saved me tons of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 If you are happy with your mix and want to get your volume up... There are a couple of excellent limiters that will do a great job (both free). Just use on your final stereo mix track. Vladg sound gets a lot of good reviews. https://vladgsound.wordpress.com/plugins/limiter6/ And so does Loud Max. http://loudmax.blogspot.co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roman_sub Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 +1 on Loudmax. Free and rather good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Smalls Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 I use Ableton... I've never bothered consolidating clips automatically to 0dB - I like to set volumes individually both by ear, and by looking at the outputs. I've also always used - until last week! - the Ableton audio fx compressors, in particular the Aggressive Kneeless Compressor - this allows different levels of compression at different frequencies (just about!) which works very well for bass. I also use the Fast limiter, and often a bit of reverb on bass tracks which helps it cut through drums. Being ex-BBC I also take a lot of care for the master output to never exceed 0dB (you can tell what the max level of each track including master from the mix window) as digital distortion and clipping is horrible! I do find that this sometimes means my levels might be lower than some other folks mixes, but it also means that any distortion on the track has been added by me (unless I just haven't noticed it - when you get to my age etc) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skol303 Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 [quote name='Leonard Smalls' timestamp='1459850381' post='3020161'] I use Ableton... I've never bothered consolidating clips automatically to 0dB - I like to set volumes individually both by ear, and by looking at the outputs. I've also always used - until last week! - the Ableton audio fx compressors, in particular the Aggressive Kneeless Compressor - this allows different levels of compression at different frequencies (just about!) which works very well for bass. I also use the Fast limiter, and often a bit of reverb on bass tracks which helps it cut through drums. Being ex-BBC I also take a lot of care for the master output to never exceed 0dB (you can tell what the max level of each track including master from the mix window) as digital distortion and clipping is horrible! I do find that this sometimes means my levels might be lower than some other folks mixes, but it also means that any distortion on the track has been added by me (unless I just haven't noticed it - when you get to my age etc) [/quote] ^ That's all bang on. I used multi-band compression myself to treat the lows, low-mids, mids, upper-mids and high frequencies with different levels of compression on the master bus. I then use a single compressor, set fairly gentle (-2db compression or less) on the mix as a whole to 'glue' everything together, followed by a limiter (iZotope Ozone Maximizer) to crank up the perceived loudness if the genre warrants it. And yeah, I never let the signal clip above 0db. That's one of the golden rules! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 ^ Another vote for same; multi-band compression, bands chosen depending on genre, 'glue' for the whole shebang, and leave, always, a bit of headroom spare. There's nothing whatever to be gained (no pun intended...) in getting even close to 0db. I usually finalise at -3, simply by commodity. I've never used a limiter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skol303 Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1459856805' post='3020254'] I've never used a limiter. [/quote] Very controversial! Of course this all depends on the genre you're working with - and in particular, whether you want the finished product to be 'competitively loud' [i](which is the controversial bit).[/i] Personally, I'm not an advocate of the loudness war - it makes very good sense to leave plenty of dynamics in music and not squash the bejesus out of everything so that it resembles the output of a sausage machine. Thankfully, the industry is coming back round to this via things like 'Mastered for iTunes', so in future we'll hopefully see an end to the loudness war and good riddance to it. But... some genres of music do benefit from harder compression, bordering on brick wall limiting. Obviously not classical or folk; but certainly EDM and heavy metal. Used correctly, it can add considerable 'punch' to a mix - it can even be used 'musically' as an effect in itself (the classic pumping synth trick used in a lot of dance music). So there is certainly a place for a limiter in your signal chain. But only when appropriate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 [quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1459857498' post='3020268'] But... some genres of music do benefit from harder compression, bordering on brick wall limiting. [/quote] Have you heard the Sleigh Bells album "Treats"? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iI606ERE6Y Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 (edited) [quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1459857498' post='3020268']... So there is certainly a place for a limiter in your signal chain. But only when appropriate. [/quote] Certainly, but my innate modesty forbids me those pretentions. Whatever was good enough for Sibelius is good enough for me. [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1459859796' post='3020299'] Have you heard the Sleigh Bells album "Treats"?... [/quote] Now how on Earth did this manage to slip past my musical radar..? Normally, minimum politeness expects at least a 'Thanks for sharing', so, no hard feelings and [Gritted teeth]Thanks for sharing.[/Gritted teeth] (... although, to be fair, it [i]is [/i]an appropriate, telling example of the effect being discussed, rather than 'recommended listening'..! ) Edited April 5, 2016 by Dad3353 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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