I think I've bought the wrong gear!

[bigjimmyc]

Hi all. I'm new to basschat so please be gentle!

I recently ebayed virtually all my old gear (ashdown MAG combos, 2x10, 1x15, hartke 4x10) and bought 2nd hand ABM EVO II 500 with ashdown 4x8 mini (600W) and 115 mini (300W) cabs. I may have made a mistake!

It sounds great at bedroom levels. The problem is I just can't get solid low end out of this rig above 4/10 on the Output. It farts out at E.

I play in a loud heavy rock band, and use Peavey 5-string basses (E and Eb) plus a Tobias 4-string tuned to D. Very little effects in use, although I like the valve grind in the ABM. I've experimented with compressors to control the signal but to no avail.

I suspect the cabs are the wrong choice. Clearly they're small cabs with high output ratings, which was part of the appeal. As it turns out, the 1x15 driver is not original, it has a Celestion BN15-400S installed. One of the 8" drivers has also been replaced.

I didn't want to lug a 4x10 around any more! Given how much cabs have advanced since this gear was new, I'm thinking of trading for a current 1x15 or 2x12 cab.

By the way, I don't suspect the amp head. I've swapped in my remaining MAG 400 and get the same result.

So I could use some advice please. Limited funds are available. Size and weight are key, but I've got an open mind. The ABM rig can go back on sale if necessary.

Final thought (although I doubt I'll get much support for this on basschat) - I also supply our band's PA. The bass bins are really poor though, so could I fix my problem by upgrading those and DI instead?

Cheers
JC

[FinnDave]

I use an ABM evo II amp and it sounds great through my Barefaced 2x12, and was pretty good through an Ashdown 4x10. I'd suggest keeping the amp and replacing the cabs.

[CamdenRob]

This is the question every BCer asks themselves five minutes after signing up to this damn forum... Before that we are all perfectly happy with what we've got...

[Guest bassman7755]

Have you tried running the cabs individually to determine which one is the weak link ,I'm guessing its the 1x15 since this has a much lower power rating than the 4x8.

[SubsonicSimpleton]

Check your EQ settings - there is a lot of boost on tap, along with the speaker killing 'features' that ashdown build into their amps (deep switch, sub-harmonic generator) which can sound good at home practice levels, but add so much bass to the signal that once you crank the volume up to the sort of levels you need for gigs and rehearsals, the speakers will be farting out and getting damaged.

For band use I find that turning off the deep switch and sub-harmonic, and applying some cut to the bass EQ, and bumping the mid and low mid slightly gives good results on my MAG 300-115 combo.

High levels of volume at the fundamental frequency of the lowest notes are unnecessary, most of what we hear is 1st harmonic and above on these notes anyway.

[Lozz196]

That sub thingy on Ashdowns really can fudge up the sound. If it`s not off already, switch it off and go for regular bass for the lows.

As others have said though, it could be the cabs, a switch of un-matched speaker cones to the cabinets themselves is also unlikely to help.

[40hz]

Keep the head, flog the cabs and buy a strong, lightweight 4x10 with big power handling! I had a GK neo which was a one hand carry (just about). Also as Lozz says, I doubt those mismatched cones are helping matters much.

Edited April 14, 2016 by 40hz

[alexclaber]

If the 15" has been replaced, check the polarity matches with the polarity on the 4x8". Stick a 9V battery on the end of the speaker lead and all the cones should leap in the same direction. Those cabs shouldn't be too dissimilar in bass output to your previous ones. However, if your bass has quite a hot output and you pluck hard and your gain is up fairly high then I wouldn't be surprised by an amp distorting at 4/10, or you pushing so much power you overload the cabs.

[CamdenRob]

[quote name='SubsonicSimpleton' timestamp='1460636198' post='3027435']
Check your EQ settings - there is a lot of boost on tap, along with the speaker killing 'features' that ashdown build into their amps (deep switch, sub-harmonic generator) which can sound good at home practice levels, but add so much bass to the signal that once you crank the volume up to the sort of levels you need for gigs and rehearsals, the speakers will be farting out and getting damaged.

For band use I find that turning off the deep switch and sub-harmonic, and applying some cut to the bass EQ, and bumping the mid and low mid slightly gives good results on my MAG 300-115 combo.

High levels of volume at the fundamental frequency of the lowest notes are unnecessary, most of what we hear is 1st harmonic and above on these notes anyway.
[/quote]

This is sound advice... Whenever I am presented with an Ashdown amp at a rehearsal studio I always switch out the deep and sub and also roll the bass knob to 0...

[karlfer]

[quote name='SubsonicSimpleton' timestamp='1460636198' post='3027435']
Check your EQ settings - there is a lot of boost on tap, along with the speaker killing 'features' that ashdown build into their amps (deep switch, sub-harmonic generator) which can sound good at home practice levels, but add so much bass to the signal that once you crank the volume up to the sort of levels you need for gigs and rehearsals, the speakers will be farting out and getting damaged.

For band use I find that turning off the deep switch and sub-harmonic, and applying some cut to the bass EQ, and bumping the mid and low mid slightly gives good results on my MAG 300-115 combo.

High levels of volume at the fundamental frequency of the lowest notes are unnecessary, most of what we hear is 1st harmonic and above on these notes anyway.
[/quote]

THIS^^^^^^^^^
Somebody with the skills to replace speakers is unlikely to have used the wrong uns.
Get all that deep bass/sub harmonic off when gigging.
Those 4 x 8's in particular are a great cab (imo).

You will get a different sound in your bedroom, in a shop, on stage and 10 yards away from the stage.

[colgraff]

I know you don't want 4x10 cabs, but consider getting two 2x12s or similar with decent power ratings. I run two 4x10s (very light ones) and get lovely low tones from my bottom B string.

[Twincam]

Interesting I'm using an abm albeit an evo 3 500. And I find the opposite its a bit pants at house levels and woolly but seems to come alive at higher volumes with no farting out. That is with a 2x10 or 1x15 but there not mini cabs.

In fact the 15" that I use isn't even rated for anywhere near the 300w it puts into it, although it's a sealed cab. But even with the input at about 7-8 and the volume up to half way it's not farting out although it won't be far off.

The above advice is all good. Especially make sure the push flat/shape is pressed in! This means it's flat.

Another thing to check is that the cabs themselves are sound and the speaker screws are all tight etc.

[Lw.]

I wouldn't pay too much attention to the watt ratings on cabs - they're not really an indicator of volume.

Ashdown amps are not really my cup of tea but if you're into the sound of the head I would flog the cabs & get a modern 2x12 - there's a nice plain black TKS one in the classifieds at the moment & someone else was selling a Bergantino (I think) one about a month ago, don't know if it sold.

[bigjimmyc]

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1460631547' post='3027379']
Have you tried running the cabs individually to determine which one is the weak link ,I'm guessing its the 1x15 since this has a much lower power rating than the 4x8.
[/quote]
[quote name='SubsonicSimpleton' timestamp='1460636198' post='3027435']
Check your EQ settings - there is a lot of boost on tap, along with the speaker killing 'features' that ashdown build into their amps (deep switch, sub-harmonic generator) which can sound good at home practice levels, but add so much bass to the signal that once you crank the volume up to the sort of levels you need for gigs and rehearsals, the speakers will be farting out and getting damaged.

For band use I find that turning off the deep switch and sub-harmonic, and applying some cut to the bass EQ, and bumping the mid and low mid slightly gives good results on my MAG 300-115 combo.

High levels of volume at the fundamental frequency of the lowest notes are unnecessary, most of what we hear is 1st harmonic and above on these notes anyway.
[/quote]
[quote name='karlfer' timestamp='1460637292' post='3027457']
THIS^^^^^^^^^
Somebody with the skills to replace speakers is unlikely to have used the wrong uns.
Get all that deep bass/sub harmonic off when gigging.
Those 4 x 8's in particular are a great cab (imo).

You will get a different sound in your bedroom, in a shop, on stage and 10 yards away from the stage.
[/quote]

Cheers for all this feedback. It all fits with my thinking! FWIW I too disable the eq, sub harm, and typically push in the flat/shape.

So if I flog the 1x15 (I might keep the 4x8) and add a modern cab, I'm getting mixed advice on the ideal replacement. 2x12 seems logical, 4x10 is probably too large, maybe a newer 1x15? On that note, could I reuse the Celestion 15" driver in a more suitable cab??

[bigjimmyc]

[quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1460631121' post='3027374']
I use an ABM evo II amp and it sounds great through my Barefaced 2x12, and was pretty good through an Ashdown 4x10. I'd suggest keeping the amp and replacing the cabs.
[/quote]

Good to know that with the same amp, thanks. How hard do you drive it in terms of the output setting? Any other details would be useful cos Barefaced is top of my list right now.

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='bigjimmyc' timestamp='1460645221' post='3027555']
Cheers for all this feedback. It all fits with my thinking! FWIW I too disable the eq, sub harm, and typically push in the flat/shape.

So if I flog the 1x15 (I might keep the 4x8) and add a modern cab, I'm getting mixed advice on the ideal replacement. 2x12 seems logical, 4x10 is probably too large, maybe a newer 1x15? On that note, could I reuse the Celestion 15" driver in a more suitable cab??
[/quote]

Well the standard advice on here is to use identical cabs when running more than one so your best bet is probably to run a second 4x8 (if your going to keep the first one of course, if not then theres a whole range of options). Edit - if you considering new cab options then as someone just mentioned - the barefaced big twin 2 is a good option for a very bass heavy tone as its got more raw low end capability than pretty much anything else in its class.

Edited April 14, 2016 by bassman7755

[Lw.]

[quote name='bigjimmyc' timestamp='1460645221' post='3027555']
So if I flog the 1x15 (I might keep the 4x8) and add a modern cab, I'm getting mixed advice on the ideal replacement. 2x12 seems logical, 4x10 is probably too large, maybe a newer 1x15? On that note, could I reuse the Celestion 15" driver in a more suitable cab??
[/quote]

Assuming both your current cabs are 8 ohm & your amp goes down to a minimum 4 ohm you might have issues adding a 2x12 as most of the good ones are 4ohm (though I believe there are exceptions).

[FinnDave]

[quote name='bigjimmyc' timestamp='1460645617' post='3027564']
Good to know that with the same amp, thanks. How hard do you drive it in terms of the output setting? Any other details would be useful cos Barefaced is top of my list right now.
[/quote]

I think the output has been over half way round a couple of times, but that means a serious amount of sound that punches you in the back of the legs every time you hit a note. Only suitable for outdoor gigs. I have used it for lots of pub gigs though, and at around 1/3 volume is clear and punchy. The Barefaced cab is a Super Twin, and has not been a disappointment, good sound, plenty of volume, and a one handed carry (slightly lighter than the ABM head!)

I've been using it with Fender Jazz & Precision basses, always played finger style, I have now changed to plectrum but haven't gigged the amp since I was forced to change style. Might use it for next week's gig just because I can, though it is serious overkill for a small local pub.

[bigjimmyc]

[quote name='Lw.' timestamp='1460645852' post='3027575']
Assuming both your current cabs are 8 ohm & your amp goes down to a minimum 4 ohm you might have issues adding a 2x12 as most of the good ones are 4ohm (though I believe there are exceptions).
[/quote]

Good point. 4 ohm min, so I'm looking for an 8 ohm cab to add to my 4x8 or a 4 ohm cab to be the one-and-only-cab-I'll-ever-need.

[bigjimmyc]

[quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1460646097' post='3027579']
I think the output has been over half way round a couple of times, but that means a serious amount of sound that punches you in the back of the legs every time you hit a note. Only suitable for outdoor gigs. I have used it for lots of pub gigs though, and at around 1/3 volume is clear and punchy. The Barefaced cab is a Super Twin, and has not been a disappointment, good sound, plenty of volume, and a one handed carry (slightly lighter than the ABM head!)

I've been using it with Fender Jazz & Precision basses, always played finger style, I have now changed to plectrum but haven't gigged the amp since I was forced to change style. Might use it for next week's gig just because I can, though it is serious overkill for a small local pub.
[/quote]
Cheers... might track that gig down then!

[hubrad]

[quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1460637151' post='3027453']
If the 15" has been replaced, check the polarity matches with the polarity on the 4x8". Stick a 9V battery on the end of the speaker lead and all the cones should leap in the same direction. Those cabs shouldn't be too dissimilar in bass output to your previous ones. However, if your bass has quite a hot output and you pluck hard and your gain is up fairly high then I wouldn't be surprised by an amp distorting at 4/10, or you pushing so much power you overload the cabs.
[/quote]
This is, to me, the most likely thing.
If you just play through one cab and it sounds great, then adding in the 2nd cab messes up your sound, phase is yer man!
If this is the case, you just need to reverse the wires going to one cab - either do it in the cable, or better still go in and resolder the input socket the other way round.

Edit: Alex knows a bit about speakers! ;-)

Edited April 14, 2016 by hubrad

[FinnDave]

[quote name='bigjimmyc' timestamp='1460646229' post='3027582']
Cheers... might track that gig down then!
[/quote]

It's very local, though I suppose that does depend on where you have to start from. For me, it's up to the end of the road, turn right, drive about 400 yards, pull into pub car park.

[bigjimmyc]

Nobody has suggested 18". And I don't see them offered by the main brands now. Surely some folks still use them?

[FinnDave]

I've seen anything bigger than a 15" for years now.

[gillento]

Did you PUSH the Flat/Shape button?

A lot of first time ABM users are making the mistake of engaging the Shape by NOT pushing that button and producing a lot of low lows, losing all the definition and going very hard on the speakers.....