Barefaced Big Twin. Do i take the plunge?

[taunton-hobbit]

If I were actively gigging with mine, which have the 'tuff-cab' type finish, I think I'd be looking at a couple of Roksolid covers as insurance.....light and quite tough, flightcasing kinda defeats the weight advantage.........

[sunburstjazz1967]

If people were wading into a barefaced porn thread or a ncd thread with negative posts I'd say that's out of order but it isn't is it? The facts are that some people do not like BF cabs for various reasons,thats life.

[Lozz196]

I have 2 BF Super12Ts - both have the regular BF finish, both have Roqsolid covers, and neither look to have suffered much, one being used pretty much twice a week at rehersals & gigs, the second only coming out when I`m on a very big stage. That regular BF finish is much tougher than it looks, the covers came with them and I would always have them,for rainy load-ins/outs etc, but unless rattling around in the back of a van, the finish is hardy enough to not need one.

[stevie]

I'm familiar with Tuff Cab and I don't think it's very tough at all, although no worse than vinyl. However, it is quite easy to touch up. You can also go over a paint finish with Tuff Cab to make it look like new. The trick is to apply it very thinly, spreading it out with a brush as quickly as possible. As long as you don't overbrush (which makes it matt because it dries so quickly), you'll get a nice, fresh shine over the old finish - and no brush marks.

[stevie]

[quote name='machinehead' timestamp='1461772881' post='3037539']
One poster even posted about Barefaced cabs that he'd tried and didn't like.... [i][b]"No, but to be fair, [u]I didn't like the look of the cab[/u] from the off so 5 mins or less was enough. "[/b][/i]

That's neither an open minded trial or a fair trial and certainly doesn't add to a balanced argument on the forum.
[/quote]

That sounds like a perfectly reasonable comment to me. While it is true that you need to play a cab/amp at volume to see how it performs at full stretch, it's quite feasible to conclude that you don't like the look and/or sound of an amp/cab/microphone/effects unit (or whatever) in five minutes.

[machinehead]

Stevie, my point is that the poster was listening with his eyes.

However, I disagree that five minutes is a sufficient test for a bass cab, at least, it definitely isn't for me. That five minutes is unlikely to be at a gig, with a full band, at high-ish volume, with different amps and in different rooms.

I have no axe to grind over Barefaced cabs. I happen to like them, but there are other cabs I like too.

Like others have said, it's amazing how they polarise opinions. I suspect it's not only to do with how they perform.

Frank.

Frank.

[FinnDave]

I have been gigging my Super Twin for 2 1/2 years, and it looks like new. I use a simple roqsolid cover.

[ern500evo]

Well this was all very predictable wasn't it!! 😀

[Paul S]

I've been using Barefaced cabs for 5 years now. Started with a Compact, then I added a Midget. Replaced those with a Supercompact, then added a second . I've haven't managed to scuff the finish on any of them.

But then I have always bought Roqsolid covers for all my cabs - pre-Barefaced included - seems like a small price to pay to keep them looking good.

[karlfer]

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1461743038' post='3037203']
It's interesting how this term gets used in a passive/aggressive way on every BF thread. It doesn't get used anywhere else on Basschat as far as I can tell. So you can draw your own conclusions on that. You'll find it on page one of this thread, in post 13. It seems to be a way of stopping any balanced discussion before it can even start. The following answers warwickhunt's question quite nicely ([url="http://www.theporchvaldosta.com/blog/5-reasons-that-people-who-call-others-haters-are-the-real-haters-and-why-social-media-shaming-is-of-the-devil"]http://www.theporchv...is-of-the-devil[/url]).

[b]So here are 5 Reasons that people who call others ‘haters’ are also doing the hating.[/b][list]
[*]When a Passive-Aggressive Hater calls another a ‘hater’ they are implying that the ‘hater’ is narrow-minded, inflexible, ignorant, uninformed, and well, a ‘hater’!

This is nothing short of immature name-calling. What is the hoped for outcome in making such declarations? Most likely to discredit or shame the other person so that the PAH will feel as if they have ‘won’ an argument that the other person wasn’t even aware was taking place.
[*]When a Passive-Aggressive Hater calls another a ‘hater’ they are saying that the ‘hater’ is unable to have an opinion that varies from their (perceived) more superior opinion. This is the epitome of self-righteousness. [i]How dare someone else think differently than me? I'm practically an expert on this topic. Don’t they know how many blogs and articles I have 'liked' and shared?[/i]
[*]When a PAH calls another a ‘hater’ they are unapologetically declaring that the ‘hater’ would change their tune if they were only as enlightened as the PAH, or as privileged, or as experienced, or as motivated, or if they possessed the God-like qualities that the PAH does.

This goes hand-in-hand with self-righteousness. But there is more to this…
(Read with the best hoity-toity voice you can muster)
[i]Oh, if only those ‘haters’ would have read the book I have read, or the online posts…tsk…tsk…they would understand. Poor creatures. I will help by posting pictures and passive-aggressive hashtags. Then they will all see the error of their way, declare my opinion to be superior, and join me on my quest for perfection.[/i]
[*]PAH’s that call others ‘haters’ are revealing a huge insecurity in their life and in the decisions that they make. This is little more than projecting a self-hate.

Why else would someone want to publicly declare someone a ‘hater’ just because they don’t agree with, support, or ride the same band-wagon that the PAH does? This public shaming that the PAH is trying to accomplish is only shining a big ugly spotlight on their deep-seated insecurities and buried-deep-down questioning of their latest decision (fad or otherwise).
[*]PAH’s use social media to say like a kid on the playground with a giant ice cream cone, “nanny-nanny-boo-boo” to anyone they have declared to be a ‘hater’ by posting [i]unsolicited[/i] [i]progress[/i] reports of how [i]awesome and popular[/i] their life/opinion is.

[i]I’ll show them! Those ‘haters’ will regret ever questioning my choices, motives, and decisions. I will post every aspect of my mundane life and others will be so jealous![/i]
[/list]
[/quote]


In your opinion

[stevie]

Do you have an opinion, Karlfer?

[Conan]

[quote name='sunburstjazz1967' timestamp='1461781014' post='3037640']
If people were wading into a barefaced porn thread or a ncd thread with negative posts I'd say that's out of order but it isn't is it? The facts are that some people do not like BF cabs for various reasons,thats life.
[/quote]

Of course. I, for example, really detest single-cut basses. I have never played one, but I just hate the look of them. My loss probably.

However, what I don't do is trawl through Basschat looking for threads that mention SCBs and spout forth about how much I dislike them [i]ad nauseam[/i].

[stevie]

[quote name='machinehead' timestamp='1461786617' post='3037695']
Stevie, my point is that the poster was listening with his eyes.

However, I disagree that five minutes is a sufficient test for a bass cab, at least, it definitely isn't for me. That five minutes is unlikely to be at a gig, with a full band, at high-ish volume, with different amps and in different rooms.
[/quote]

Yes, I get that, Frank, but I don't get why that disqualifies the opinion. The guy told it as he saw it. People buy gear for all kinds of reasons, not just the sound. If you're main criterion is, say, weight, who is to say that you shouldn't buy your gear based on that factor? Or on appearance, or brand name. It's your money.

On the other point, I think it's a myth that you have to gig with a piece of gear to judge it properly. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that, at least for me, a gig isn't a great place to test gear because you're very limited in what you can actually do to test the gear when you have to perform at the same time.

On the other hand, in five minutes, I can do a lot to test a cab, including taking the grille off and checking the interior workmanship, how it's wired, whether there are rattles, the quality of the electronic components, whether it's properly damped, whether it's properly braced, how the speakers are mounted, and lots of other little things that tell you whether this is a quality product or whether it's just been thrown together as cheaply as possible.

Then I'll try to get an impression of the sound. Does the box go low enough, are the mids and highs there, and do they sound clean? Is there any nasty tonality to the sound, and can I get rid of it with eq? How does the cab respond to eq, especially in the lows? Does the sound change when I turn up the volume? How does the sound change when I'm standing directly in front of the box, and how does it sound from 20 feet away? And so on. I find it difficult to judge these things when the rest of the band is playing at full pelt. And there's only so much fiddling you can do on stage.

For me, checking out gear out at a practice is best, because you can play at a good volume, listen from different parts of the room, fiddle with your amp and try different options without getting on everyone's nerves.

[Conan]

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1461828095' post='3037880']On the other point, I think it's a myth that you have to gig with a piece of gear to judge it properly. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that, at least for me, a gig isn't a great place to test gear because you're very limited in what you can actually do to test the gear when you have to perform at the same time.


For me, checking out gear out at a practice is best, because you can play at a good volume, listen from different parts of the room, fiddle with your amp and try different options without getting on everyone's nerves.
[/quote]

Good point

[stevie]

Thanks, Conan. I'm not saying that you can't judge a piece of new equipment by gigging it (bending over backwards to be diplomatic here ) because if you slot something new into your rig and it works for you on a live gig, then that's fine.

I played at a small festival last year where they provided a Markbass rig. An LMIII with a 15" and 2x10"s. It was horrible. Boomy, no definition, difficult to hear, soggy. I am familiar with the amp and did my best, but every other player who used it sounded bad. I certainly wouldn't like to make a judgement on that gear based on my gigging experience of it.

[discreet]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1461759379' post='3037367']
It's a bit weird, but I think it's just a reaction to the -often real- attraction that some people seem to have for threads with the BF name on them just to criticise or make fun. There are multiple threads about, say Precision basses, and you don't seem to have a number of people (often the same ones thread after thread) regularly joining in just to say "Precisions, meh".
[/quote]

But then Leo wasn't a member of this forum who then went on to become very successful. I don't know for sure, but I suspect that a lot of the criticism of BF products in particular and the company in general on this forum could well be down to simple jealousy. Pure speculation on my part, of course...

[Robot cat lifts off cranium, exposing electronics within]
Marge: See all that stuff in there, Homer? That's why your robot didn't work.

[mcnach]

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1461828095' post='3037880']
For me, checking out gear out at a practice is best, because you can play at a good volume, listen from different parts of the room, fiddle with your amp and try different options without getting on everyone's nerves.
[/quote]

I agree.
Especially if you do it as a band activity, to get a sense for how it fits with the band together. With experience you learn what is the sound that fits, without hearing all the component parts... but it takes time to get there and I really prefer to have everybody making noise at once

Gigs are a very limiting environment to try stuff.

[discreet]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1461836165' post='3037977']
Gigs are a very limiting environment to try stuff.
[/quote]

That can be very true of course, however if you rate gear at rehearsals but consistently don't get on with it at gigs then you have a problem. I suppose it depends on the rehearsal-to-gig ratio... I understand that some people like to rehearse but not do gigs, so obviously that would have a bearing on equipment choice.

Edited April 28, 2016 by discreet

[Conan]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1461836694' post='3037987']
That can be very true of course, however if you rate gear at rehearsals but consistently don't get on with it at gigs then you have a problem. I suppose it depends on the rehearsal-to-gig ratio... I understand that some people like to rehearse but not do gigs, so obviously that would have a bearing on equipment choice.
[/quote]

Exactly. So there are as many solutions as there are bass players!

I personally only play in one band and have done for the past six years or so. We rehearse in a way that is as similar as we can get to a gig environment, so if a piece of equipment works in a rehearsal scenario, then it will probably be fine at a gig (bearing in mind the usual variables of dodgy stages, odd acoustics and so on...).

The gear that works well in this band might not be ideal for a different band though. Not that I have any plans to leave anytime soon!

[machinehead]

Stevie. Your points are good and well made.

I still think, if you gig regularly , and in different venues, then the best trials are in the intended end-use environment. But I did say testing on a gig was best [b]for me. [/b]It just works best for me and I remain unimpressed by opinions formed solely in music shops or similar.

Testing at a rehearsal is certainly better than without a band like say, in a shop. Not going to disagree there. And I don't dismiss trying a cab without a band - it's obviously possible to tell quite a lot but the live, real-life performance is what counts for me.

I also agree about a good technical inspection. Many years spent as an electrical engineer (and electrician before that) and having specified and bought PA systems worth around £100K, you would expect me to be fussy over technical issues.

So it looks to me that we agree on a lot, and I'm thinking most musicians will ignore what they read on the internet anyway and make their own judgements.

So why have I spent time typing this?

Frank.

[machinehead]

I can't use the bloody quote function so this is a copy/paste.

Stevie posted

"I played at a small festival last year where they provided a Markbass rig. An LMIII with a 15" and 2x10"s. It was horrible. Boomy, no definition, difficult to hear, soggy. I am familiar with the amp and did my best, but every other player who used it sounded bad. I certainly wouldn't like to make a judgement on that gear based on my gigging experience of it."


Surely you just did Stevie.

And that's how the gear in question performed in that real-world situation.

Frank.

Edited April 28, 2016 by machinehead

[FinnDave]

I don't see how you can judge whether a bit of kit works for you or not without gigging it. I only ever use my rig when I gig, I use a small combo for rehearsals and very rarely play at home, and if I do, I use headphones. Surely, using a cab in the environment it was made for is the only way to tell if it is useable for you or not?

[JTUK]

[quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1461854119' post='3038237']
I don't see how you can judge whether a bit of kit works for you or not without gigging it. I only ever use my rig when I gig, I use a small combo for rehearsals and very rarely play at home, and if I do, I use headphones. Surely, using a cab in the environment it was made for is the only way to tell if it is useable for you or not?
[/quote]


Sounds like you don't have a chance to test anywhere else though
I have my rigs set up at home and can get them loud enough. But as I said, I'll also have worked out what the kit can basically do pretty quickly.
So that and any cosmetic equations can be determined.... and no, there will be no need for endless knob twiddling.
Gigs will fine tune it but I don't buy a bass, for example, unless it has a few core things working for it..

When I try something I pretty much know what I expect back anyway.. it has been 'grooved' in over many years.
If it doesn't hit that mark..then pass... if it does, then great and I'll likely improve on it..IMO.

[FinnDave]

You misunderstand, I can use my gear at home, but I choose not to. Anything can be made to sound good in isolation, but how it works in a band context is (for me) the only thing that matters.

[JTUK]

[quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1461861827' post='3038321']
You misunderstand, I can use my gear at home, but I choose not to. Anything can be made to sound good in isolation, but how it works in a band context is (for me) the only thing that matters.
[/quote]

And we've been down this route before. I don't see what difference a band mix and solo mix should make.
To me..it is the same. I don't fine tune my tone for 'the band' ..and I very rarely touch the amp either.
95% of the time the only thing I adjust is the volume.

Cutting through is mostly a bad mix in the first place..as in you are fighting someone else for the frequency.
You are getting in battles you just don't need to mostly.. IMO.