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Always-on preamps in your signal chain: have you just got the wrong amp?


Muzz
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Following on from the interesting thread by Lozz of the preamp shootout at the Herts Bass Bash, the one about 'heft' from preamps :ph34r: , and in light of my own experience/prejudices...

In terms of preamp pedals that are in a signal chain and always on, is it just a case of the amp itself not being the right one for the sound you're after?

I used Sansamps (and their ilk - the BDI21, and the B3 and Jamup digital version) for a while with some 'politer' (or 'blander', if you like) amps, but in an effort to simplify my signal chain I went looking for amps which could do the same sound without the need for the pedal. And I found them, in various degrees.

Just to reiterate, I'm only talking about the always-on usage, not the ones which give a different tone for different songs, etc - I'd consider them more of an Effects pedal in this context...although multichannel amps can do that. too...

Edited by Muzz
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I would agree, but certain situations require the always on pre-amp. Ideally, I would have a totally flat rig/combo and use that in combination with different pre-amp depending on the gig. Unfortunately I can't afford, so I just DI and rely on the monitors.

I suppose if you play in one band, and have one main sound, you'd be better off getting the rig to do that.

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I suppose if you get 'your' sound with a pre-amp of some description then presumably you could get a different sound with a different pre-amp... therefore if you wanted to play in several different bands of differing genres then you could have several different pedals OR select several different sounds from the same pedal, thus negating the need for a different amp for each project...

I've been in the situation where I've bought different amps and even different rigs for different bands, and it gets bloody expensive.

Edit: Overuse of the word 'different'. Too bad.

Edited by discreet
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[quote name='paul_5' timestamp='1465234162' post='3066380']
My DHA VT1 EQ is an 'always on' preamp. My SWR is really loud, but clean.

'My sound' comes from the VT1 (DI'ed sometimes), and I use the EQ on the SWR head to make corrections for the room/stage sound.
[/quote]

That's the same thing I've done a couple of times with different setups. You don't have any interest in finding an amp that sounds like the VT1?

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For me I never intended on using a preamp pedal to my own amp. I`ve an Aguilar Tonehammer 500, so it made sense to get the Tonehammer DI so I could have the same sound when using provided rigs, but that was it, never looked for anything else from my sound, had it nailed. And then we went into the recording studio to record our 2nd album.

The producer - who we`d chosen specifically for his production and recorded instrument sounds - put a Sansamp in the line, then recorded that straight DI`d, plus my rig miked up. I just loved the sound so much I decided I had to have one, plus it`s pretty daft - imo - having a sound on an album that you either can`t or don`t attempt to replicate live.

Have to say I don`t know if I`d have been so willing to let anyone else put the Sansamp in the line, but made sense to go with it based on what I`d heard on the bass on other great bands CDs - Last Resort, Booze & Glory to name just a couple. Trust is a fine thing, and I`m really glad I trusted him.

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[quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1465235104' post='3066390']
That's the same thing I've done a couple of times with different setups. You don't have any interest in finding an amp that sounds like the VT1?
[/quote]

Nah. Most of what I play I need the grit for, but it's nice to have a clean amp that I can 'dirty up' as opposed to a dirty amp that I can't make clean.
I've tried running the VT1 into a plain old power amp too with good results.

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I use a B7K Ultra as an always-on preamp, usually with distortion on to create the dirty signal. No amp* could simulate this for me, and actually the Darkglass sound works together really well with valve preamp of my GK head. So, for me, I would disagree with the OP question. I have the right amp and the right pedalboard to compliment it.

*When the Darkglass head is released, it may turn my world upside-down a little...

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[quote name='elephantgrey' timestamp='1465225194' post='3066279']
For me, a big draw of preamp pedals is being able to get 'my tone' no matter what backline i might use, just by bypassing the amps pre/pluging into the effects return/DIing
[/quote]

This for me too. I've never had the desire to always play through my own rig at gigs... in fact I try get out of it any opportunity i can, so an always on preamp pedal is essential .

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[quote name='elephantgrey' timestamp='1465225194' post='3066279']
For me, a big draw of preamp pedals is being able to get 'my tone' no matter what backline i might use, just by bypassing the amps pre/pluging into the effects return/DIing
[/quote]

Another vote here - easier to turn up and plug in anywhere, even with no backline.

Edited by ahpook
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90% of the time I'm happy with my bass into a compressor and a very clean amp.

But I don't want to buy a new amp just for a, for example, Ampeg driven rock sound. For that type of gig a preamp pedal, left on does the job without too much money being spent.

I also do like the DI options as others have mentioned.

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I have a sansamp svt pedal that I use as my "always on" pre amp pedal that I use in conjunction with my line 6 lowdown. However, I use the rock amp svt on my lowdown as my main bass tone (although I set the eq flat) and then I use the sansamp as a "Fat compressor" and use the pedals eq to enhance my sound then use the eq on my amp to adjust my sound to get it right in the ball park.

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You're right, I didn't know much about amps when I bought mine and the preamp/DI compensates for this. Somehow the cheap BDI21 comes up with the 'heft' that my SWR's bass and treble controls can't. I also notice that a lot of new amps are fairly basic in the EQ department and you have to start looking at the more premium brands to get bass/low mids/high mids/treble or sweepable mid 'sweet spot' controls (if I'm wrong, let me know where the bargains are).

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I'm of the opinion you've got it wrong if you have a pre amp patched in 'on' full time.

Having said that, my basses have onboard pre amps and I have default settings on all.... plus I hardly ever ever touch the amp apart from
volume.

I tend to keep it simple and clean and work on hand position for the variations I'm looking for.

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[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1465845515' post='3071566']
I'm of the opinion you've got it wrong if you have a pre amp patched in 'on' full
[/quote]

What brings you to that conclusion? It seems quite reasonable to me to have one on all the time.

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[quote name='lefrash' timestamp='1465925454' post='3072193']
What brings you to that conclusion? It seems quite reasonable to me to have one on all the time.
[/quote]

Because you have an amp for that and any decent should be able to outperform a pedal

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[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1465931191' post='3072259']


Because you have an amp for that and any decent should be able to outperform a pedal
[/quote]

But as I've said and others have said, using the same amp every gig and rehearsal isn't possible for every one. If you want the exact same tone hitting foh wherever you play then a preamp pedal is an easy way to do it. Seems logical to me.

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