Does anyone use a 212 cab paired with a 112 ?

[Coilte]

I have a GK MB212 cab and a GK MB500 head. Recently I thought I'd add another cab, just for that "bigger" tone (not for volume necessarily). I think that another 212 would be a bit "over kill" for my needs (not to mention budget...and space), so I thought a 112 would suit.

I have being reading up on this, and it seems not to be an ideal set up because one cab (the 112) would be getting more power from the amp. The GK 212 cab is 600 watts at 8 ohms and the 112 I have in mind is 500 watts at 8 ohms. From my research, the 212 would have to be at 4ohms to balance things out.

I'd value any thoughts and opinions.

[hubrad]

If both cabs are 8 Ohms, each will present the same load to the amp so get the same power.
I've run a 212 and 112 together, different makes but both 8 Ohms, and it was ace! :-)

[obbm]

The GK MB500 cannot have a speaker load lower than 4-ohms so each cab will have to be 8-ohms. That means that the power will be split equally between the cabinets, but not evenly between the drivers.

I had a similar problem and opted for a 2 x12@4-ohms and a 1x12@8-ohms which gives a combined impedance of 2.667-ohms. Fortunately all the speakers are 8-ohms and are effectively wired in parallel so the power is divided equally between the three. The only way to run this set-up was to change the amp to one which will operate down to a load of 2-ohms.

[4stringslow]

You may be confusing drivers and cabs.

If both cabs are the same impedance the amp power will be spilt equally between them. However, because the cabs have different configurations then power will not be split equally between all the drivers.

Thus, assuming the amp delivers 500W at 4 ohms, the two 8 ohm cabs will present a load of 4 ohms and will thus receive 500W split equally between them, I.e. 250W each. The single driver in the 112 cab will be driven with 250W. The two drivers in the 212 cab will also receive 250W between them but split equally between them, so 125W each.

All of this is electrically fine and no harm will be done. What it will sound like is anyone's guess and you'll have to try it to decide if it's what you like. My guess is it will be fine.

Be wary of using a 4ohm 112 cab. Together with an 8 ohm cab this would present a load of 2.7 ohms to the amp, which might damage the amp (check the manual for minimum load specification).

However, even If the amp CAN drive a 2.7 ohm load then the power will be split 2/3rds to the 4 ohm cab and 1/3rd to the 8 ohm cab. Thus, to split the power evenly among all drivers, the 212 should receive 2/3rd of the power, meaning a 4 ohm cab, which is not what you have. Using a 4ohm 112 will make the power to the individual drivers even more unbalanced.

[Coilte]

Thanks for the replies lads. So, in order to facilitate a 112 cab, I'd have to get a new head that goes down to 2 ohms and also a new 4 ohm 212 cab. I think it's a no brainer that I should save up and get another similar 212 cab.

I suppose my other question is, that [u]IF[/u] I did run the 212 and 112 (both at 8 ohms) together, would I have the same good experience as "hubrad" did ? I know it is a very general question, depending on the compatibility of the two cabs.

[Coilte]

[quote name='4stringslow' timestamp='1468833543' post='3093570']
You may be confusing drivers and cabs.

If both cabs are the same impedance the amp power will be spilt equally between them. However, because the cabs have different configurations then power will not be split equally between all the drivers.

Thus, assuming the amp delivers 500W at 4 ohms, the two 8 ohm cabs will present a load of 4 ohms and will thus receive 500W split equally between them, I.e. 250W each. The single driver in the 112 cab will be driven with 250W. The two drivers in the 212 cab will also receive 250W between them but split equally between them, so 125W each.

All of this is electrically fine and no harm will be done. What it will sound like is anyone's guess and you'll have to try it to decide if it's what you like. My guess is it will be fine.

Be wary of using a 4ohm 112 cab. Together with an 8 ohm cab this would present a load of 2.7 ohms to the amp, which might damage the amp (check the manual for minimum load specification).

However, even If the amp CAN drive a 2.7 ohm load then the power will be split 2/3rds to the 4 ohm cab and 1/3rd to the 8 ohm cab. Thus, to split the power evenly among all drivers, the 212 should receive 2/3rd of the power, meaning a 4 ohm cab, which is not what you have. Using a 4ohm 112 will make the power to the individual drivers even more unbalanced.
[/quote]


Thanks 4stringslow. You answered my question above, while I was posting. I think I'll go with another 212...less complicated and more likely to sound better.

[hubrad]

Yup, as suggested above the end result is down to personal taste. Works a treat for me, among my various cab combinations.
As long as half the amp power - 250W - isn't overpowering either cab you're ok on a technical level. Looking at your OP I'd give it a try.
Something else to be aware of, especially if using different brands of cab, is phase.. if you start with your 212 sounding great, then adding the 112 makes your sound seem somewhat lacking, the cabs could well be 'out of phase' i.e. speakers travelling in opposite directions. Easy to remedy just by reversing the polarity of one of the cables.

[chris_b]

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1468833830' post='3093573']
I think I'll go with another 212...less complicated and more likely to sound better.
[/quote]

Really? I'm sure a second 212 will sound great but I don't see why adding a 112 you your current cab is going to be more complicated or sound less that just as good. I used to run a 4 ohm 212 and 8 ohm 112 because that gave me 3 options of rig. My amp did run to 2 ohms but that's irrelevant if your cabs are both 8 ohms.

As long as you run the 112 within it's capabilities you're not going to damage anything and you'll benefit from more volume coming from more speakers and a better tone as a result. Your 212 cab will be running at half power but with 2 212's, because both cabs are 8 ohm, they will each be running at half power when compared to a 4 ohm 212.

There are no downsides to you running a 312 or 412 rig, except the 412 is less modular and so less flexible.

Edited July 18, 2016 by chris_b

[Coilte]

Thanks again to everyone for their useful input. Plenty of food for thought here. After reading "chris b's" and "hubrad's posts, I might reconsider the 112.

Edited July 18, 2016 by Coilte

[JTUK]

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1468831917' post='3093552']
I have a GK MB212 cab and a GK MB500 head. Recently I thought I'd add another cab, just for that "bigger" tone (not for volume necessarily). I think that another 212 would be a bit "over kill" for my needs (not to mention budget...and space), so I thought a 112 would suit.

I have being reading up on this, and it seems not to be an ideal set up because one cab (the 112) would be getting more power from the amp. The GK 212 cab is 600 watts at 8 ohms and the 112 I have in mind is 500 watts at 8 ohms. From my research, the 212 would have to be at 4ohms to balance things out.

I'd value any thoughts and opinions.
[/quote]

I sometimes use a 212/4 (600w) and 210/8 (350w) to 'split' the power in... the jury is still out on this way of doing things and I think it is a bit hit and miss.
Sometimes, I 'think' I can hear the 210 bottom out a bit...

That is why I think a 112 and 212 pair is not a good idea.
It might work but you'll have to try it over a period of time..by which time you are committed to buying it,

[Coilte]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1468846969' post='3093718']
I sometimes use a 212/4 (600w) and 210/8 (350w) to 'split' the power in... the jury is still out on this way of doing things and I think it is a bit hit and miss.
Sometimes, I 'think' I can hear the 210 bottom out a bit...

That is why I think a 112 and 212 pair is not a good idea.
It might work but you'll have to try it over a period of time..by which time you are committed to buying it,
[/quote]


I hear what you're saying. I'll take on board and ponder all the information in this thread. I may be in luck, as I have just noticed an Avatar 2x12 8 ohms for sale (and cheaper than the 112 I have in mind) on a local website. Going to make enquiries.

[Delberthot]

There's a thread over on Talkbs about running 2x12" and 1x12" GK cabs but I think they were referring to the neo versions but shouldn't really make any difference. The overall consensus was that they worked great together. The 1x12" sat on top so that you could hear it better to make sure that you weren;t pushing it too hard.

I did something similar a couple of years ago when I had a Hartke LH1000 going into a Laney 4x10" and Laney 15". I had the 15" on top of the 4x10" so that I could hear the 15" better as it was rated at half the wattage of the 4x10". Plus the Hartke has a balance control so I could send more to the 4x10" than the 1x15"

Plus it looked mighty and sounded fantastic

[url="http://s927.photobucket.com/user/Delberthot/media/20140705_193535_resized_3_zps63b45515.jpg.html"][/url]

[Coilte]

Thanks for that Delberthot. The jury is still out on what to get.

For the record, the 112 I have my eye on is this :

http://www.thomann.de/ie/warwick_wca_112_lightweight_cab_ce.htm?ref=search_rslt_warwick+wca+112+bass+cabinet_329104_0


It is rated at 500 watts, so there'd be a bit of head room, as it would be getting 250 watts from the amp. The weight is also an attraction...given my sixty..plus...year old back.