Jump to content


Bagpipes, yes bagpies !

semi serious question too

57 replies to this topic

#1 Les

    Very Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,071 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wigan

Posted 21 July 2016 - 02:07 PM

My band lacks talent but makes up for it with balls and more front than Blackpool

We finish the first spasm with Copperhead Road, storms it, foot tapping jiggy stuff when it gets going.

I would like to do the intro bit on a cheap (if there is such a thing) set of pipes. Yes, I know it wasn't done on bagpipes but it sounds like it.

The song is in D and as far as I can research Bagpipes aren't. Can I do this ? Are they tuneable ? It doesn't really matter if I sound like I'm murdering small mammals cos'it's more effect than serious music making but I would like it to be in key.

Thanks in advance for any sound advice or mickey taking.

Les

ps I can't actually play them either but that's never stopped me before
I play in a cover band for money, so anything I post about bands is coming from the viewpoint of a cover band that plays for money.


Gear

some basses
some amps
some pedals
some harmonicas
some guitars
A penny whistle

Bands

Tex and The Hardcore Troubadours
The Snakes
A yet to be named SexPistols tribute for a one off in 2014 (didn't happen)
Vince Reno and the Sabres
Switchgear

Motorbikes

Yamaha 600 Fazer (the real one with carburettors) (sadly nicked)
Another Yamaha 600 Fazer like the last one but redder

#2 Happy Jack

    I look pretty young, but I'm just back-dated (yeah)

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,002 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London

Posted 21 July 2016 - 02:24 PM

Well make up your mind ... is it bagpipes or bagpies?

And can you play them while eating a donner (sic) kebab?
Feedback +++ YouTube Channel +++ My Basses +++ Current active bands: Junkyard Dogs + King Ralph +++ Gone, but not forgotten: Dani Molino + Karena K + Mick's Lawmen + The Sapphire Grooves + Westbound Piccadilly + Long String Hawkers + Red Herring

It's never too late to have a Happy childhood.

#3 Les

    Very Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,071 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wigan

Posted 21 July 2016 - 03:21 PM

View PostHappy Jack, on 21 July 2016 - 02:24 PM, said:

And can you play them while eating a donner (sic) kebab?

I can't actually play them under any circumstances but how hard can it be :lol:
I play in a cover band for money, so anything I post about bands is coming from the viewpoint of a cover band that plays for money.


Gear

some basses
some amps
some pedals
some harmonicas
some guitars
A penny whistle

Bands

Tex and The Hardcore Troubadours
The Snakes
A yet to be named SexPistols tribute for a one off in 2014 (didn't happen)
Vince Reno and the Sabres
Switchgear

Motorbikes

Yamaha 600 Fazer (the real one with carburettors) (sadly nicked)
Another Yamaha 600 Fazer like the last one but redder

#4 paul_c2

    Fully fledged member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 206 posts

Posted 21 July 2016 - 04:01 PM

I am assuming you mean the most common/familiar type of bagpipes - the Great Highland Bagpipe. I don't know where your research was done but they do in fact play in A mixolydian, which is obviously closely related to the scale of D major. The confusion has probably arisen because bagpipe music doesn't bother to mention that its C is actually C# and its F is actually F# - since the chanter plays only the one scale, the sharps were deemed superfluous to mention. Also, you're likely caught out by the fact that over the years, they have crept up from the quasi-standard A=440Hz tuning, to as high as A=485Hz (B flat is 465Hz I think). So you need to be careful to research this and obtain bagpipes which are designed to play at A=440.

http://www.hotpipes.com/tuning.html should help you with tuning them - out of tune bagpipes is the main reason why people dislike them, its quite a complicated process to get them in tune!!

A further complication is that the chanter is tuned to just temprament, not even-tempered, and in fact the D and G are slightly sharp, so playing in these keys will sound wrong. You may be better off with smallpipes which are designed to play in D (mixolydian).

Maybe you'd be better off with a synthesiser....?

#5 discreet

    The Enemy of Art

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,026 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London

Posted 21 July 2016 - 04:10 PM

View PostHappy Jack, on 21 July 2016 - 02:24 PM, said:

...is it bagpipes or bagpies?

I hope it's bagpies. I'm starving.

#6 Earbrass

    May cause drowsiness

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,056 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London

Posted 21 July 2016 - 04:13 PM

http://basschat.co.u...22#entry3088522
ilmatyynyalukseni on täynnä ankeriaita

nyckelharpa - piano/keys - bass guitar - d/g melodeon
My soundcloud
My feedback

#7 pete.young

    Hyper elite member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,965 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ipswich

Posted 21 July 2016 - 04:21 PM

Although in theory they are in A usually they seem to end up closer to Bb.

I have a reasonably decent Bagpipe sound on the V-Accordion and can shift the pitch. I could record something and send it to you if that would be any use?

Sounds to me like the original was done with a keyboard of some kind, maybe a clavinet?
Feedback: http://basschat.co.u...-for-peteyoung/
"Just another crouton, floating on the bouillabaisse of life"

#8 Muzz

    Hyper elite member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,265 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oldham

Posted 21 July 2016 - 04:28 PM

If it's Wigan, it's gotta be bagpies... :D

We do this one, but we use keyboards for the first spasm*, perhaps a cheap melodica might be a good idea?


* Ohhh, I'm keeping that one... :)
Rig: Magellan 800, Mesa Walkabout, BF Super Twin, SonicPort/iPad/Jamup, OBBM Cables.
Basses: Dingwall, Shuker, various mongrels.
Bands: www.thisunevensky.co.uk, www.noelfraser.com

#9 Delberthot

    Ka Kaw

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,738 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Falkirk, Scotland

Posted 21 July 2016 - 04:56 PM

View Postpaul_c2, on 21 July 2016 - 04:01 PM, said:

out of tune bagpipes is the main reason why people dislike them, its quite a complicated process to get them in tune!!



So I take it no one in history has managed it yet as they all sound like a bag of cats :blink:
2016 US Musicman Sterling with, Ultralights, Hipshot Double Stop & D'addario EXL165 strings


Gallien Krueger MB500

Barefaced One 10


GLX Bass Overdrive & Line6 Space Chorus FOR SALE






My Feedback

#10 Les

    Very Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,071 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wigan

Posted 21 July 2016 - 05:41 PM

View Postpaul_c2, on 21 July 2016 - 04:01 PM, said:

Maybe you'd be better off with a synthesiser....?

Thank you for that comprehensive reply Paul, although I struggled with some of it. Need the visual impact not the sound to be honest.


View Postpete.young, on 21 July 2016 - 04:21 PM, said:

Sounds to me like the original was done with a keyboard of some kind, maybe a clavinet?

Apparently it was done on a harmonica with a lot of processing.



View PostDelberthot, on 21 July 2016 - 04:56 PM, said:

So I take it no one in history has managed it yet as they all sound like a bag of cats :blink:

Now now Del :D

We've done it for years, I play a bass riff and the drums play a 4 to the bar kick, then the guitarist joins in, this is all done as the singer needs to change from acoustic guitar to either mandolin or a banjo/guitar hybrid. Just not sure if I can get it to happen.

this is what I'm after



https://www.youtube....h?v=uhMO9azmKNU

Would be more a visual audience kind of thing as if it happens I'll be playing them stood on a table in the middle of the room or stood on/behind the bar.
I play in a cover band for money, so anything I post about bands is coming from the viewpoint of a cover band that plays for money.


Gear

some basses
some amps
some pedals
some harmonicas
some guitars
A penny whistle

Bands

Tex and The Hardcore Troubadours
The Snakes
A yet to be named SexPistols tribute for a one off in 2014 (didn't happen)
Vince Reno and the Sabres
Switchgear

Motorbikes

Yamaha 600 Fazer (the real one with carburettors) (sadly nicked)
Another Yamaha 600 Fazer like the last one but redder

#11 Trueno

    Fully fledged member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 385 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:West Yorkshire

Posted 21 July 2016 - 05:55 PM

I think you may get a very similar sound by using a kazoo... A much maligned instrument. If that doesn't have the right visual impact, get someone to crochet a bagpipe cushion out of spare bits of wool and stuff the kazoo inside.

Or... I believe you can get the chanter on its own, pipers use them for practice and it will be cheaper and easier than the full monty.
Steve J

#12 paul_c2

    Fully fledged member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 206 posts

Posted 21 July 2016 - 06:17 PM

You can pick up cheap bagpipes for about £60 on eBay, I think........

If you're going to be stood somewhere else other than on the stage, you'll obviously not be able to "fool" the audience by operating the bagpipes silently and the sound coming from another source eg synthesiser or pre-recorded sample.

#13 Les

    Very Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,071 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wigan

Posted 21 July 2016 - 06:55 PM

View Postpaul_c2, on 21 July 2016 - 06:17 PM, said:

You can pick up cheap bagpipes for about £60 on eBay, I think........

If you're going to be stood somewhere else other than on the stage, you'll obviously not be able to "fool" the audience by operating the bagpipes silently and the sound coming from another source eg synthesiser or pre-recorded sample.

This.

It's the 60 quid ones I'm looking at on Ebay.

It's the novelty value, won't matter if what I play is all over the place as long as the drone fits with the song in D if you get what I mean Paul.

Do you by any chance have a set in A or thereabouts that you could actually play along to the intro in the youtube link I posted and let me know if I'm going to get something usable ?

I'd be much obliged

cheers

Les
I play in a cover band for money, so anything I post about bands is coming from the viewpoint of a cover band that plays for money.


Gear

some basses
some amps
some pedals
some harmonicas
some guitars
A penny whistle

Bands

Tex and The Hardcore Troubadours
The Snakes
A yet to be named SexPistols tribute for a one off in 2014 (didn't happen)
Vince Reno and the Sabres
Switchgear

Motorbikes

Yamaha 600 Fazer (the real one with carburettors) (sadly nicked)
Another Yamaha 600 Fazer like the last one but redder

#14 ras52

    Felly fludged member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,344 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London/Kent

Posted 21 July 2016 - 07:09 PM

I was about to complain that this thread is in the wrong forum, but I see it's "Other Instruments", not "Other Musical Instruments", so that's OK :P :ph34r:
Basses: too many; Amplification: too loud. My cloud of sound / My back of feed
For sale: Guitar hard case

#15 Pinball

    Very Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,572 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bristol-ish
  • Interests:Song writing, bass, nature, pinball guitars and everything musical

Posted 21 July 2016 - 07:36 PM

I used to play Northumbrian Pipes and you could get sets that were tuned to D, sadly mine aren't they are in F
Basses: EB MusicMan SR5's, G&L's.
Amplification: Genz Benz

The Angry Badgers: https://www.facebook...TheAngryBadgers and https://soundcloud.com/angry-badgers Twitter: @TheAngryBadgers
Eddie and The Mind Spiders: https://www.facebook...themindspiders/
Eddie Mole https://www.facebook...02327932?ref=hl

Feedback here: http://basschat.co.u...__fromsearch__1

#16 paul_c2

    Fully fledged member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 206 posts

Posted 21 July 2016 - 07:53 PM

View PostLes, on 21 July 2016 - 06:55 PM, said:

This.

It's the 60 quid ones I'm looking at on Ebay.

It's the novelty value, won't matter if what I play is all over the place as long as the drone fits with the song in D if you get what I mean Paul.

Do you by any chance have a set in A or thereabouts that you could actually play along to the intro in the youtube link I posted and let me know if I'm going to get something usable ?

I'd be much obliged

cheers

Les

Jesus no, I don't play them!!!!! I only remembered about them when I was studying musical theory, and I did the bit on tuning instruments and how various instruments are tuned. It mentioned that bagpipes are an exception and a bit of an anomoly, hence...I looked some stuff up on the internet.

TBH at £60 its probably worth a go? If I'm not mistaken, then there's a pipe you blow into (just blow, no embrochure needed) and a pipe like a recorder where you cover up holes, which plays a scale. So its not massively complicated to get the "cat stood on" sound out of them. I understand that the skill is to make it sound nice........sadly a dying art.

#17 Pinball

    Very Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,572 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bristol-ish
  • Interests:Song writing, bass, nature, pinball guitars and everything musical

Posted 21 July 2016 - 08:01 PM

This is the way to do it properly. The "truly" Sensational Alex Harvey Band

Watch to the end...What a band :)

https://www.youtube....h?v=nTIox95OxTc

Edited by Pinball, 21 July 2016 - 08:01 PM.

Basses: EB MusicMan SR5's, G&L's.
Amplification: Genz Benz

The Angry Badgers: https://www.facebook...TheAngryBadgers and https://soundcloud.com/angry-badgers Twitter: @TheAngryBadgers
Eddie and The Mind Spiders: https://www.facebook...themindspiders/
Eddie Mole https://www.facebook...02327932?ref=hl

Feedback here: http://basschat.co.u...__fromsearch__1

#18 Earbrass

    May cause drowsiness

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,056 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London

Posted 21 July 2016 - 08:22 PM

Here's my all-time bagpipe favourite - Swedish pipes this time, played by the wonderful Alban Faust.




Also, bagpipes can be surprisingly good for metal:


ilmatyynyalukseni on täynnä ankeriaita

nyckelharpa - piano/keys - bass guitar - d/g melodeon
My soundcloud
My feedback

#19 Les

    Very Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,071 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wigan

Posted 21 July 2016 - 08:52 PM

View Postpaul_c2, on 21 July 2016 - 07:53 PM, said:

Jesus no, I don't play them!!!!!

That makes 2 of us :lol:
I play in a cover band for money, so anything I post about bands is coming from the viewpoint of a cover band that plays for money.


Gear

some basses
some amps
some pedals
some harmonicas
some guitars
A penny whistle

Bands

Tex and The Hardcore Troubadours
The Snakes
A yet to be named SexPistols tribute for a one off in 2014 (didn't happen)
Vince Reno and the Sabres
Switchgear

Motorbikes

Yamaha 600 Fazer (the real one with carburettors) (sadly nicked)
Another Yamaha 600 Fazer like the last one but redder

#20 zbd1960

    Fully fledged member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 183 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North Midlands
  • Interests:Lots of music, hill walking, photography, skiing

Posted 21 July 2016 - 10:35 PM

View Postpaul_c2, on 21 July 2016 - 04:01 PM, said:

I am assuming you mean the most common/familiar type of bagpipes - the Great Highland Bagpipe. I don't know where your research was done but they do in fact play in A mixolydian, which is obviously closely related to the scale of D major. The confusion has probably arisen because bagpipe music doesn't bother to mention that its C is actually C# and its F is actually F# - since the chanter plays only the one scale, the sharps were deemed superfluous to mention. Also, you're likely caught out by the fact that over the years, they have crept up from the quasi-standard A=440Hz tuning, to as high as A=485Hz (B flat is 465Hz I think). So you need to be careful to research this and obtain bagpipes which are designed to play at A=440.

http://www.hotpipes.com/tuning.html should help you with tuning them - out of tune bagpipes is the main reason why people dislike them, its quite a complicated process to get them in tune!!

A further complication is that the chanter is tuned to just temprament, not even-tempered, and in fact the D and G are slightly sharp, so playing in these keys will sound wrong. You may be better off with smallpipes which are designed to play in D (mixolydian).

Maybe you'd be better off with a synthesiser....?
Arguably, just intonation is more in-tune that the equal temperament that we use, since ET squashes 5th slightly and makes major 3rds way too wide...but that's another story...

You could go for something with a softer sound such as the Uillean or Northumbrian pipes, or a musette.

As most of these things are hand-made, I don't think there will be really cheap ones around. I do know someone who makes them (and recorders).
Fender Jazz
TC BG250-208
Plus lots of other non-bass stuff

#21 paul_c2

    Fully fledged member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 206 posts

Posted 21 July 2016 - 10:57 PM

View Postzbd1960, on 21 July 2016 - 10:35 PM, said:

Arguably, just intonation is more in-tune that the equal temperament that we use, since ET squashes 5th slightly and makes major 3rds way too wide...but that's another story...

You could go for something with a softer sound such as the Uillean or Northumbrian pipes, or a musette.

As most of these things are hand-made, I don't think there will be really cheap ones around. I do know someone who makes them (and recorders).

Yep - which is great when instruments with just tuning play together - eg string quartet, horn section, choir. But when they have to play with other instruments - piano, woodwind etc everyone needs to be in tune, so stuff like piano dictates that its equal temprament.

In theory a guitar could be constructed and tuned to just tuning - but its fretboard would be correct in only a handful of keys and an open tuning would need to be used. As soon as the limitation of those few keys is removed, the requirement means the frets need to be equally spaced to avoid bad clashes on certain notes.

#22 Happy Jack

    I look pretty young, but I'm just back-dated (yeah)

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,002 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London

Posted 22 July 2016 - 07:07 AM

http://www.ebay.co.u...F0AAOSwdzVXkYfD

Sorted.

Next?
Feedback +++ YouTube Channel +++ My Basses +++ Current active bands: Junkyard Dogs + King Ralph +++ Gone, but not forgotten: Dani Molino + Karena K + Mick's Lawmen + The Sapphire Grooves + Westbound Piccadilly + Long String Hawkers + Red Herring

It's never too late to have a Happy childhood.

#23 Grangur

    Bahh Humbug!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,186 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Herts/Essex

Posted 22 July 2016 - 07:16 AM

Get the Gear 4 Music ones for £69, then you can send them back if the idea is beyond all hope

http://www.gear4musi...HzzrxoCdjHw_wcB
See my feedback

#24 wateroftyne

    SHAZAM!

  • Global Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,301 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Geordie Delta

Posted 22 July 2016 - 07:30 AM

View PostLes, on 21 July 2016 - 05:41 PM, said:

Apparently it was done on a harmonica with a lot of processing.

...which, from the sounds of it, was then wiped from the master tape and re-dubbed using a typical 80's synth.
Basses: Fender '71 Precision Fretted (rosewood) | Fender '71 Precision Fretless (rosewood) | Maruszczyk Jake P/J (x2)
Amplification: HandBox R-400 head | TKS Engineering S112 & S212 cabs | Ibanez Promethean P5110


Bands: The Lindisfarne Story | The Caffreys | Rosie & the Hips

See all my basses here | Watch video clips of them here | Hey! I've got feedback!

#25 Grangur

    Bahh Humbug!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,186 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Herts/Essex

Posted 22 July 2016 - 07:42 AM

View Postwateroftyne, on 22 July 2016 - 07:30 AM, said:

...which, from the sounds of it, was then wiped from the master tape and re-dubbed using a typical 80's synth.
Which would lack the theatrical drama of bagpipes if you can carry it off. :D


We demand to see the video on the finished result, of course.
:party: :useless: :party:
See my feedback

#26 Happy Jack

    I look pretty young, but I'm just back-dated (yeah)

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,002 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London

Posted 22 July 2016 - 09:42 AM

View Postpaul_c2, on 21 July 2016 - 10:57 PM, said:

Yep - which is great when instruments with just tuning play together - eg string quartet, horn section, choir. But when they have to play with other instruments - piano, woodwind etc everyone needs to be in tune, so stuff like piano dictates that its equal temprament.

In theory a guitar could be constructed and tuned to just tuning - but its fretboard would be correct in only a handful of keys and an open tuning would need to be used. As soon as the limitation of those few keys is removed, the requirement means the frets need to be equally spaced to avoid bad clashes on certain notes.

So has anyone tried to pass the output from a set of bagpipes through Autotune?

And did it sound like Cher?
Feedback +++ YouTube Channel +++ My Basses +++ Current active bands: Junkyard Dogs + King Ralph +++ Gone, but not forgotten: Dani Molino + Karena K + Mick's Lawmen + The Sapphire Grooves + Westbound Piccadilly + Long String Hawkers + Red Herring

It's never too late to have a Happy childhood.

#27 bluejay

    Waiting for a left-handed Dingwall to GAS for

  • Forum Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,859 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Leafy west London
  • Interests:Music (durr...!); Photography; Enjoying life

Posted 22 July 2016 - 09:56 AM

:lol: :lol: :lol:

LOL, subscribed - thank you Jack for pointing this thread out to me. Priceless :sun_bespectacled:

Edited by bluejay, 22 July 2016 - 09:57 AM.


#28 bertbass

    Very Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,224 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hastings

Posted 22 July 2016 - 10:51 AM

Mrs Bert always wanted to play bagpipes so no expense spared, I bought her a set for Christmas one year, they cost about £60. Totally useless. Mrs Bert thought it was her not being able to get much of a sound out of them but it turns out that the cheap bagpipes are rubbish and no one can play them. You have to spend a lot of cash to get bagpipes that can actually be played. The cheap ones look good hanging on the wall as an ornament though.

#29 Grangur

    Bahh Humbug!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,186 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Herts/Essex

Posted 22 July 2016 - 10:51 AM

View Postbluejay, on 22 July 2016 - 09:56 AM, said:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

LOL, subscribed - thank you Jack for pointing this thread out to me. Priceless :sun_bespectacled:
Have you thought of getting a left-handed set?
See my feedback

#30 bluejay

    Waiting for a left-handed Dingwall to GAS for

  • Forum Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,859 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Leafy west London
  • Interests:Music (durr...!); Photography; Enjoying life

Posted 22 July 2016 - 11:05 AM

Believe me, I'd better stick to (left-handed) bass and just to that, really... :lol: :D :P





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users