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Different EQ for flats and rounds?


bassbiscuits
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Apologies from the outset if this is a stupid question, but...

Any of you who use both flatwounds and round wounds on different basses - do you find you have to EQ differently depending on which you're using?

I've been using round wounds on my basses for years now, but I've recently acquired some flatwounds - a set of TIs and a set of La Bellas, on different basses.

I find the rounds too bright for some stuff, and the flats seemed a step in the right direction tonally - played unplugged they sound great.

But up against my round wound basses plugged in, the flats just sound like sort of worse versions of my round wound sound, if that makes sense.

So am I missing something?

Maybe I'm going wrong by just taking the same old approach with my playing, EQ, amps etc - maybe there's something else I need to do to unlock the mysteries of these things and really get a good flatwound sound.

Or am I just a die hard round wound user who hasn't realised it yet?

Any advice?

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Maybe in your mind you are wanting your flats to sound like rounds. They will not. The words 'the flats just sound like worse versions of my round wound sound' are telling. You could try boosting your mids a little, but they should sound good with the amp EQ, er... flat. Are you playing them in a band context or comparing them with rounds solo? Either way start with your EQ flat and take it from there.

Good flats will sound great in a mix, they have a fundamental tone. Which may be your problem, as rounds have a lot of harmonic shenanigans going on which you may be missing. Persevere. I used Rotosound RS66 rounds for 30-odd years before discovering LaBella flats, and I'm not going back.

Edited by discreet
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Can't add much to what discreet says other than I totally agree. I roll my treble off completely with flats too.

I restrung a bass for a mate the other day rotosound heavy strings. Been a while since I've played with rounds but I find myself rolling the treble up thinking "ooh, that sounds nice", but that's them and flats they're not.

Edited by bigjohn
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I'm using flats on my Jazz bass right now. I haven't changed my amp eq at all (totally flat) but if I occasionally will boost treble on the guitar (East J retro pre) if I want to add a little clank but that's only on the very rare occasion that we play something semi rock like.

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In my experience some flats will sound good on a bass some will not sound good on the same bass. I tried a set of TIs on my Overwater fretless and I wasn't at all happy with the tone. Put a set of La Bellas on that bass and it just came alive. TIs went on the ACG Finn and sound great on that. It might be an idea to try changing the strings between basses and see what happens.

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I never use roundwounds but I do use a variety of flatwounds and tapewounds.

I use little if any EQ on my amp. I do sometimes roll off the treble or use a different pickup (if two pickup bass) or move my right hand up or down between bridge and neck.

I think if i was using roundwounds I would still be doing those same things.

Edited by EssentialTension
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[quote name='BassBus' timestamp='1469173096' post='3096248']
In my experience some flats will sound good on a bass some will not sound good on the same bass. I tried a set of TIs on my Overwater fretless and I wasn't at all happy with the tone. Put a set of La Bellas on that bass and it just came alive. TIs went on the ACG Finn and sound great on that. It might be an idea to try changing the strings between basses and see what happens.
[/quote]

Yes. No string has a rigidly fixed sound but will work and sound somewhat different on different basses ... and with different players.

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Thanks guys

I'm finding the flats lovely and fat and smooth with finger style, with nice low end, but with a pick they get a bit shouty and hollow sounding - the 'worse version of rounds' sound i referred to.

For reference, I'm using an old 70s precision with La Bella flats, through a LM3 and Aguilar GS410.

I know it should sound brilliant. I've recorded with the same bass with Rotosound flats into a desk and it sounded beautiful in the mix.

I think i need to play a bit more with them to get more used to how they respond and sound live, and get to really appreciate them.

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I`ve found flats to not sound particularly good when playing quietly at home but that they are fine in the mix. I also had to really up the highs to get a bit of definition, far higher than I would with rounds, but the sound was different, more chunky sounding. If wanting to cut through in a mix I wouldn`t say flats were the way to go, but to provide a really nice steady and chunky foundation then they`re great.

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It's primarily for a band with drums, a jangly guitar and lots of harmony vocals, so my thinking was that flats would be better for a smooth, distinct bass tone underlying it all, rather than the zing of rounds getting lost among all the other mid and high frequency sounds already.

But on the other hand, i'm finding rounds just fuller, louder and more dynamic - which is also quite handy when filling out the sparse instrumentation in that band.

Flats to me feel/sound a lot more restrained and almost compressed, with less dynamic range when you dig in etc.
Maybe it's just me expecting the wrong thing.

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[quote name='bassbiscuits' timestamp='1469187059' post='3096425']
It's primarily for a band with drums, a jangly guitar and lots of harmony vocals, so my thinking was that flats would be better for a smooth, distinct bass tone underlying it all, rather than the zing of rounds getting lost among all the other mid and high frequency sounds already. But on the other hand, i'm finding rounds just fuller, louder and more dynamic - which is also quite handy when filling out the sparse instrumentation in that band. Flats to me feel/sound a lot more restrained and almost compressed, with less dynamic range when you dig in etc. Maybe it's just me expecting the wrong thing.
[/quote]

That line-up sounds perfect for flats, your initial thinking is correct. Smooth and distinct is where it's at. Do I take it that you have already tried flats in the band? The point that rounds seem louder is moot - you can turn up if necessary. With a good rig flats can easily carry all before them. I think it would help if you stopped comparing rounds (which you have used for a while) with flats (which you have not), give them a chance and see where it takes you.

I found my technique changed somewhat when I started using flats, I dug in less and let the amp do the work. I used less pressure on my fretting hand and I also started plucking the strings more with the very tips of my fingers. As said above, how and where you strike the strings can make a huge difference without constantly EQ-ing. I'd say 'it's all in the fingers' but I don't want to look like an arse (but it really is all in the fingers). :D

Of course as you said in the OP, maybe you just don't like flats! But I wouldn't discount them just yet.

Edit: Just for the record I don't much like TI Flats but just love LaBellas, so there is quite a difference between brands.

Edit 2: Sorry missed your post #10! Ignore irrelevancies.

Edited by discreet
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[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1469186046' post='3096406']
I`ve found flats to not sound particularly good when playing quietly at home but that they are fine in the mix. I also had to really up the highs to get a bit of definition, far higher than I would with rounds, but the sound was different, more chunky sounding. If wanting to cut through in a mix I wouldn`t say flats were the way to go, but to provide a really nice steady and chunky foundation then they`re great.
[/quote]

It depends on the type of flats. I find that TI's cut through the mix nicely.

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[quote name='bassbiscuits' timestamp='1469142391' post='3096157']
Apologies from the outset if this is a stupid question, but...

Any of you who use both flatwounds and round wounds on different basses - do you find you have to EQ differently depending on which you're using?

I've been using round wounds on my basses for years now, but I've recently acquired some flatwounds - a set of TIs and a set of La Bellas, on different basses.

I find the rounds too bright for some stuff, and the flats seemed a step in the right direction tonally - played unplugged they sound great.

But up against my round wound basses plugged in, the flats just sound like sort of worse versions of my round wound sound, if that makes sense.

So am I missing something?

Maybe I'm going wrong by just taking the same old approach with my playing, EQ, amps etc - maybe there's something else I need to do to unlock the mysteries of these things and really get a good flatwound sound.

Or am I just a die hard round wound user who hasn't realised it yet?

Any advice?
[/quote]

Maybe try Ernie Ball Cobalt flats?
Forget half-rounds or however they call them, you know, the ones that are supposed to be halfway between flats and rounds. Just go to these Cobalt Flats. They feel just like flats... because they are: very smooth, soft. But tonally they're nothing like any flat or half-round I ever tried, and I tried many. They sound much like rounds after they've been on teh bass for a little while. The zing is gone, but they do have a lot of top end if you want it. You can easily remove more top end and move the sound towards a more classic flat type of sound, or not and enjoy a sound that it's not quite like round-wounds, but not too dissimilar either. They have great presence and tight bottom end, not 'thud' (unless you make it go thud)... They're not the cheapest, but from what you say I think they'll be worth trying.

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[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1469191172' post='3096481']
You can easily remove more top end and move the sound towards a more classic flat type of sound, or not and enjoy a sound that it's not quite like round-wounds, but not too dissimilar either. They have great presence and tight bottom end, not 'thud' (unless you make it go thud)...
[/quote]

There is that, and even when I used rounds I tended towards a thumpy sound with them and preferred rounds that were pretty dead. I never got into the 'zing' much. I think mostly I prefer the feel of flats, they're smooth and shiny, don't shred your fingers and don't wear your frets as much. So maybe the OP should continue to use rounds as he obviously prefers them - just make them sound like flats! :D

Edited by discreet
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I do like to hear some extra upper mids/lower treble (maybe 2-4K or so) with flats to bring out a bit of grunt. But some amps and cabs accentuate this range anyway, so I don't always need to do it with the EQ. With the three-piece I'm playing with right now, what seems to work is to really dial in plenty in this range, take the tone control back a bit for mellower songs and open it up for the rockier numbers.
It's been several years since I tried gigging with rounds at all, so I'm not entirely sure how my approach with those would vary. I've got an unopened set of stainless steel rounds knocking about - I might stick them on for a few days some time, just to remind myself.

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Cheers folks - food for thought here.

You're right tho - I've been playing rounds since i started in 1986, so i'm really used to the way they respond. Only the last year or so have I dabbled with flats.

Of the Rotos, TI's and La Bella flats, i think the La Bella's most suit what i want from feel and finger style sound.

If there's nothing daft i've missed, then presumably playing them more to get used to them is the answer.

My gear is all pretty good, my playing is decent, so just down to me to make it all work!

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[quote name='bassbiscuits' timestamp='1469194164' post='3096512']
My gear is all pretty good, my playing is decent, so just down to me to make it all work!
[/quote]

Yes. Try to forget about the rounds/flats issue, just play your bass and see how it goes. If the flats are still bugging you after a reasonable time then obviously they're not for you. Nothing wrong with that, we try new things, we like them (or not) and move on. :)

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[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1469195314' post='3096522']
Yes. Try to forget about the rounds/flats issue, just play your bass and see how it goes. If the flats are still bugging you after a reasonable time then obviously they're not for you. Nothing wrong with that, we try new things, we like them (or not) and move on. :)
[/quote]

Aye - wise words mate.

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[quote name='bassbiscuits' timestamp='1469185663' post='3096400']
For reference, I'm using an old 70s precision with La Bella flats, through a LM3 and Aguilar GS410.

[/quote]

I'd say there is no reason that rig can't work fine and cut through nicely. Whether it would be to everyone's liking is a separate matter.

[quote name='bassbiscuits' timestamp='1469185663' post='3096400']
... with a pick they get a bit shouty and hollow sounding - the 'worse version of rounds' sound i referred to.

[/quote]

A Fender with flats and with a pick is very common on 1960s pop recordings with session bassists such as (in the US) Carol Kaye, Joe Osborn, and (in the UK) John Paul Jones, Russ Stableford etc. Again there's no reason it can't work fine - but liking it might be a different matter.

Bass particularly up front from 2.15 and following ...

[media]http://youtu.be/06X5HYynP5E[/media]

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I don't set the EQ any differently on my Stingrays with flats or rounds generally - or on my LM3.

I currently have TI flats and the mutes wound on my Classic Ray - and the slap sound is also fine - maybe tweak the treble on the bass for slap a little.

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[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1469196035' post='3096530']


I'd say there is no reason that rig can't work fine and cut through nicely. Whether it would be to everyone's liking is a separate matter.



A Fender with flats and with a pick is very common on 1960s pop recordings with session bassists such as (in the US) Carol Kaye, Joe Osborn, and (in the UK) John Paul Jones, Russ Stableford etc. Again there's no reason it can't work fine - but liking it might be a different matter.

Bass particularly up front from 2.15 and following ...

[media]http://youtu.be/06X5HYynP5E[/media]
[/quote]

Wow that is a good bass sound and not far removed from what I've got. Really stands out in the mix.

Right - you've convinced me to keep on trying with the flats! I've got a festival gig tomorrow with the band I mentioned so gonna try it out there.

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