EBS_freak Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1469697476' post='3100344'] I can't understand why people think a modern PA with powered speakers is more of a liability than a conventional PA, worst case scenario we could use amps as back line, lead vocals straight into a powered wedge pointing at the audience and finish the gig with the damaged speakers. [/quote] You know, I was thinking about this statement - I can't actually recall a single instance where I have been at a gig, playing or otherwise, where a PA has failed. I've witnessed plenty of guitar and bass amp deaths though... and countless pedal board failures! Just how common is a PA failure nowadays? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuNkShUi Posted July 28, 2016 Author Share Posted July 28, 2016 Thats what i'm saying. 17 years and our PA's have never failed us. And we have had some far dodgier ones than the one we currently use! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roceci Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 Right that's it, I'm taking deps for every position to every gig from now on regardless of whether a regular member is absent or not. & maybe even deps for deps. Multiple heart failure or dyssentry could strike at any time. You just never know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 [quote name='roceci' timestamp='1469700098' post='3100379'] Right that's it, I'm taking deps for every position to every gig from now on regardless of whether a regular member is absent or not. & maybe even deps for deps. Multiple heart failure or dyssentry could strike at any time. You just never know. [/quote] For those wedding gigs, don't forget to include a stand in bride and groom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillento Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 I'd use a A-Designs REDDI straight into the FOH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 [quote name='gillento' timestamp='1469702821' post='3100414'] I'd use a A-Designs REDDI straight into the FOH [/quote] Not being funny - but why? The tone shaping on a digital desk is far more powerful than your average preamp. I could understand in a recording situation too.., but in a live situation, the ability to sense any discernible difference between a generic DI and a REDDI would be pretty difficult. I'd be interested in knowing why you would pursue a REDDI? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillento Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 (edited) I am not being funny at all. It plaec mine for the last 5 years in every studio session and on every live gig. It just makes the sound better. There's something especially on the higher notes that makes them sound fatter and warmer. I leave the final tone shaping to the FOH guy and do minor tweaks using a RMI/Lehle Basswitch in front of the REDDI. Edited July 28, 2016 by gillento Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 [quote name='gillento' timestamp='1469703315' post='3100422'] I am not being funny at all. It plaec mine for the last 5 years in every studio session and on every live gig. It just makes the sound better. There's something especially on the higher notes that makes them sound fatter and warmer. I leave the final tone shaping to the FOH guy and do minor tweaks using a RMI/Lehle Basswitch in front of the REDDI. [/quote] Have you A/Bed? And if there's a FOH guy messing with your sound, how do you know your tone is down to the REDDI or the FOH guy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillento Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 I know that the sound in my inears is coming from a monitor desk onstage, with a signal split before it hits the stage snake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 [quote name='gillento' timestamp='1469704087' post='3100432'] I know that the sound in my inears is coming from a monitor desk onstage, with a signal split before it hits the stage snake [/quote] OK - and the REDDI and crucially your mix from the monitor desk are both in the signal chain before that sound gets to your ears. I don't get what you are saying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1469698254' post='3100355'] You know, I was thinking about this statement - I can't actually recall a single instance where I have been at a gig, playing or otherwise, where a PA has failed. I've witnessed plenty of guitar and bass amp deaths though... and countless pedal board failures! Just how common is a PA failure nowadays? [/quote] We've lost a few passive tops over the years (speaker, cross over, bad connector)but carried on with just one,amps and pedal boards etc far more often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillento Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 I have no idea where your aggressive attitude is coming from. The OP has been asking for advice on maybe getting a dedicated preamp As you wrote, there is no real use for too much tone shaping before the FOH/MO desk, so suggested the REDDI instead of a preamp. Have you heard or played thru a REDDI? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 What does it do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 (edited) I think that you are misreading the aggressive attitude, there is certainly no aggression coming from my end. I am simply questioning your use of a DI to the quality of the REDDI and I would hope that you would be able to put forward a strong enough case to convince me why I should be using a REDDI myself, especially as my setup revolves around in-depth IEM mixes, no amp and relying on a killer FOH. As for the OP requirements, it was me that has actually been providing the advice that has got the OP to the point where he is now. Anyway, I have not used a REDDI but I have used other comparable DIs in my time. For a recording situation, I completely get it... but for a live situation, unless you are taking a live feed for recording, I don't see the benefit of using such an expensive DI. A gig is never in a sonically perfect environment compared to say, an audiophiles listening room or even a pair of high end headphones (I'm thinking Audeze LCD3 when I say this) that are being used to listen to prerecorded material - hence you are always starting at a disadvantage. The PA is never going to have the same sort of performance as a modest hifi setup... so you are at another disadvantage there... so I would say a decent desk with sufficient processing is good enough for a live situation and a REDDI isn't going to make a night and day difference to justify it's use... unless you can convince me otherwise. I think my key point is, that there is a lot more you can do to improve the sound in a live situation before considering such an expensive DI. </aggression> Edited July 28, 2016 by EBS_freak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassjim Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 Having already gone down this road before in relation to is it really worth IEM for pubs, there have been some very strong cases for using them. If you really want to go this way then the PA needs to be up to it so possibly now instead of taking your amp you are replacing it with bigger PA. You have to ask your self : Who's moving that about then? As already said up here the whole band needs to be actively enthusiastic about it as its also not with out its problems. I did try it out, albeit in a rehearsal and once on a gig plus with not exactly the best in ear pieces , and although I was biased against it to begin with I am personally even more biased against it now. However I think its a safe argument that if someone like EBS Freak turned up to do the sound for my band armed with all his gear and experience using it. I bet it would indeed be great. As this is never gonna happen and I could find myself playing for many different bands between now and death, I'm gonna hang on to my amp for now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuNkShUi Posted July 28, 2016 Author Share Posted July 28, 2016 No doubt it took a little fiddling to get it sounding good Bassjim, but i'm glad i put the time in. Not needing to take a bigger PA at all. Just the normal PA that we use every gig. Even before i had IEMs. And we all always help with loading in and packing down of it, as we all benefit from having it. (is that different for other band?? or is that another can of worms?) I agree with you about hanging onto the amp though, i'm still going to have one hanging around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roceci Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 Lots of problems that aren't really problems seem to be coming up. Honestly, taking everything into account here no one'd ever go out live again. As technology gets better, cheaper & smaller, I reckon we will see significant falls in sales of big old fridges & the like, however highly regarded they are. There used to be an outfit around these parts where the bassist would take an 8x10 & monster valve head out to every single gig, be it the Dog & Duck or 300 capacity theatres. The gear looked great aye, but the word amongst the bass playing fraternity was that it was a bit cockish tbh. Used to love holding my hand out for a high five as we'd pass on various venues' staircases, me with a modest combo & this guy's eyeballs bulging out as he did the Pickfords shuffle out to the van XD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuNkShUi Posted July 28, 2016 Author Share Posted July 28, 2016 [quote name='roceci' timestamp='1469711652' post='3100546'] this guy's eyeballs bulging out as he did the Pickfords shuffle out to the van XD [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LewisK1975 Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 There's a band round my way who have a subs/tops good quality PA with everything mic'd up and the bass player still uses an 8x10, forever scratching my head at that one. Never seen them play anywhere bigger than a workingmens club. Won't mention the band as there's too many south wales fellas on this thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuNkShUi Posted July 28, 2016 Author Share Posted July 28, 2016 Think thats from the "i bought it so you better believe im using it" school of thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowhand_mike Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 [quote name='FuNkShUi' timestamp='1469720152' post='3100640'] Think thats from the "i bought it so you better believe im using it" school of thought [/quote] dont blame him, if i had one id use it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtcat Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 I'm really into the idea of going IEM and no amp but as the person who does our engineering on gigs I never seem to be able to get a bass sound through foh that sounds as nice and tight as through my amp. I really really wish I could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 [quote name='mrtcat' timestamp='1469731511' post='3100753'] I'm really into the idea of going IEM and no amp but as the person who does our engineering on gigs I never seem to be able to get a bass sound through foh that sounds as nice and tight as through my amp. I really really wish I could. [/quote] What PA are you using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuNkShUi Posted July 29, 2016 Author Share Posted July 29, 2016 (edited) Tom uses the Behringer X18 too i think? I do our sound too, and mine isn't as tight as through my own rig, but i think the more i do it in practice, the closer i'll get to it being good enough to do in gigs. Edited July 29, 2016 by FuNkShUi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 [quote name='FuNkShUi' timestamp='1469777291' post='3100940'] Tom uses the Behringer X18 too i think? [/quote] So tone shaping shouldn't be a problem. What about PA cabs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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