fleabag Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 (edited) Our band is currently looking for some active full range PA speakers, and they will be handling vocals / bass / kick drum. No gittards will be going through GAK have some Mackie SRM 450 V3 for £339 each including delivery. Now then, the V2 SRM 450's had an awful reputation on the internetweb. Unreliability seems rife. So has anyone taken the risk and bought / used the V3's ? I've also tracked down some used JBL PRX 612M's, but at £750 with no warranty, i'm a bit concerned. Especially as the Mackies will be cheaper new with warranty than the pair of JBL's 2nd hand with no warranty. The JBL's are a private sale Would love to hear anyone's experiences with SRM 450 V3 or JBL PRX 612M Any other recommendations appreciated - would rather buy 2nd hand quality, than new but cheap. Reliability is just as important as the sound Thanks peoples Edited August 27, 2016 by fleabag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleabag Posted August 27, 2016 Author Share Posted August 27, 2016 Mackie Thump 15's ? G4Music selling a pair with stands and stand bag for £565 .. but cant find any reviews Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 (edited) If you are going new, RCF 312s over the Mackies - you are asking quite a lot for kick drum to be going through, I'd normally recommend something like a 735 or 745 if you are running without subs. What desk are you using? With a gate, some good eq and compressor on the kick you may get away with something usable but it won't hit hard with just the tops you have mentioned. As stated earlier, if you are keeping to a budget, either get a pair of 735s or 745s and you'll get by without a sub - or get some 312s and start saving for a sub. I'm always wary of buying used PA of this level. With consumer level stuff, you never know if it's been ragged within an inch of its life! Hope this helps. Edited August 27, 2016 by EBS_freak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleabag Posted August 27, 2016 Author Share Posted August 27, 2016 Cheers freak, dont know about the desk You have a good point about 2nd hand, but not everyone has the money to hurl at new stuff, AND quality to boot We're already throwing the kick drum through some right 'oribble powered full range cabs. Little jobs, 300 watt, dont know what they are ( i aint in charge of the PA and i dont set it up either ) but it copes ok with the kick. ) The RCF 7 series are way out of budget - so they're a non starter financially The only reason we want to go a bit higher spec / output is because we're thinking of running the bass through as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 [quote name='fleabag' timestamp='1472330605' post='3120441'] Cheers freak, dont know about the desk You have a good point about 2nd hand, but not everyone has the money to hurl at new stuff, AND quality to boot We're already throwing the kick drum through some right 'oribble powered full range cabs. Little jobs, 300 watt, dont know what they are ( i aint in charge of the PA and i dont set it up either ) but it copes ok with the kick. ) The RCF 7 series are way out of budget - so they're a non starter financially The only reason we want to go a bit higher spec / output is because we're thinking of running the bass through as well. [/quote] I totally get what you are saying re budget vs performance and what you can get on the used market. The 312s are no slouch so that's where my money would be going if I was in the market for something SRM450ish. I would however, go with 315s if you are planning to run bass through them - and they'll cope with the kick better too. Modern tops can take some punishment - if you are happy with the kick going through what you have now, you'll be pleasantly surprised with the 315s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleabag Posted August 27, 2016 Author Share Posted August 27, 2016 Thanks bud. I'll check those 315 ers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 I'd look VERY hard at these... a pair will blow the Mackies away completely and a hell lot of other cabs too. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Martin-Audio-ICT500-PA-Loudspeaker-System-/172291274221 You must get the controller tho... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleabag Posted August 28, 2016 Author Share Posted August 28, 2016 Yegods ! What is the controller for ? MInd you its a mighty long drive to pick them up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 The controller is like a cab map... so these cabs sound fantastic with them. Without, not so much. These are 500/700w cabs as each cab has 2x10 plus 2 10 woofers. You could put kick if you ran just a pair, so running 4 is a full ranger unit, pretty much. Wooden boxes and made by Martin Audio...these are a LOT od cabs for the money..PLUS you get the controller. For that money, I can't imagine what might be on a par, tbh..as Martin Audio is up a good few notches on what a lot of bands use, Traded 2 ICT500's for QSC KW 12" cabs and the QSC were not bad by comparison. They won out on light weight, but definitely not on sound..IMO. Ran it with old Crest power amps ( ICT isn't active, of course, ) but I'd have 2 lighter weight Powersoft type amps. You can't mention Mackie in the same breath as Martin, and it is not even up for discussion, tbh, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleabag Posted August 28, 2016 Author Share Posted August 28, 2016 Thanks for the advice guys Sadly, at 68lbs per cab x 4, not only are they too heavy for my poor old back, i doubt i'd fit them in my hatchback along with the other essentials. So much as i like the idea of them, on a practical level, they're not Other option, as you guys dont like the Mackie 450 V3 cabs, is the JBL PRX 612M. I guess they're not in the Martin league either, but i have to compromise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted August 29, 2016 Share Posted August 29, 2016 No, they aren't in that league either but I've used few decent jbl tops of late. I went off them while back as they downgraded from their old position which was quality, and quality and quality but that was some years ago. Their horns were a bit susceptible but I've not heard of that fragility of late. For pubs and upwards, I'd go for ksc10 for £800...if you can find any second hand and look to add a sub when money can afford it Failing that rcf, and 710 for that price new ish. The reason Martins are that price is the trade off and weight is the issue. I never found them that heavy but if they were mine to transport solely, and I'd go light class D actives too. At this price level qsc are the benchmark and you need to spend quite a bit more to get onto another level of quality. Imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleabag Posted August 29, 2016 Author Share Posted August 29, 2016 Would like to get away from subs, if possible. Another option ...DB Tech Opera 915 ( apparently something to do with RCF ) ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 No subs and you want the kick to work... you need decent 12" minimum... or even 15's and then you've given back all you saved in weight... I'd be thinking 15" actives would be getting to 50lb in weight,..?? more if it is a wooden box. RCF 715a= 40lbs..?? The QSC kw12 is a better box that the composite k12 IMO for this purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemmywinks Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 We picked up a pair of RCF 735 cabs with quality covers for not much more than the price of a single new one, definitely up your budget a bit and look at the used market if you want to put kick and bass through, you won't regret it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidder652003 Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 We just purchased some RCF 315's (active) a couple of months back and have been blown away with the improvement over our old EV passive PA. I think we got away with £600 new for the pair if you shop around. Dont forget about monitoring as well though, we also got some second hand RCF 310's for monitorig for £200 a pair. Now waiting on a Mackie 18 thump for the sub so total cost for a pretty decent PA £1200. We have a decent desk to start with mind you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleabag Posted August 31, 2016 Author Share Posted August 31, 2016 (edited) I was thinking about what JT said in that if we're throwing the kick through the mains, then the suggestion of 15's was mentioned. That kinda leaves out the RCF 310's Remember, we're not using subs The 735 are over budget unless 2nd hand, and i'm struggling to find used 735 on the market at under £700 for pair. Someone mentioned Mackie Thump 15's ( not on here ) but the word is they're cheap entry level. I would rather go better quality within budget AS it seems 15's are better if a kick drum is going thru 'em, i had a look at the DB Technologies Opera 915DX. Apparently ( i havent a clue myself ) that DB Tech is owned by RCF or they use RCF internals. I cant say, but i have seen some used ones for £725 ( a pair ) Edited August 31, 2016 by fleabag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonzodog Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 We use EV ZLX12p and they have a great sound but we only use them for vocals. We also bought a single 15" version to use as a monitor and that has an even broader sound. Very light too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleabag Posted August 31, 2016 Author Share Posted August 31, 2016 (edited) There's also the EV ELX 115 to consider, though again, gotta be 2nd hand, sadly Edited August 31, 2016 by fleabag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemmywinks Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 Ours are the RCF 725-A sorry, not the 735. Make sure you look for the mkII version (or a factory fixed mki with receipts) as they originally had a known fault with the poweramp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleabag Posted August 31, 2016 Author Share Posted August 31, 2016 Noted, thanks lemmy. I may come across some at the right price, and that sort of info is very useful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 (edited) Have to say not a fan of Mackie in their latest versions... and I would be wary of the Mackie subs. I wont say any more if you have bought it but with subs it is hard to skimp..or rather justify skimping, IME. Wooly takes on new meaning but if you've tried them and like them, ok. Our thumps lasted one gig before being moved on. I think you can get away with a lightweight 12" sub...to compliment 10" tops but be reasonable with your expectations. I generally apply that thinking to a lot of cheaper end stuff and that way I am sometimes pleasantly surprised..which is far better than being pretty disappointed.. General rule for me is look at a suitable bass end speaker so 15"s cope with kicks..and preferably a 2" horn. 725's were always good. RCF is reliable and QSC tends to be the market leader. I'd run K10's for vox only and no kick and they'll excel..the kick drags them down quite a bit but then that is your accepted compromise. I still say those Martins are GREAT value but you have to make your choices for your reasons. If you are considering 50lb cabs, then they'd be back in the equation, IMO... But..round and round we go...it is a minefield Edited August 31, 2016 by JTUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleabag Posted August 31, 2016 Author Share Posted August 31, 2016 (edited) JT, def. not going with subs. Someone has to carry them to gigs, and carrying 2 mains will already fill up my car, as of course i have other stuff as well. I'll certainly go for 15's as you suggested. I'm surprsied you didnt have any feedback on the EV range either ZLX or ELX. ( talk is ELX is better ) but of course if you have no expereince of them, it would make sense that you didnt mention them. I'll keep looking ..havent bought anything yet. If i want the quality AND 15's, i'm certain its going to be 2nd hand / used cabs. A bit of a worry i suppose as you never know how they've been treated. I'll never believe anyone that says " only bedroom use by my granny " type of ads Edited August 31, 2016 by fleabag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 I did try out ZLX 12' at Andertons and thought the Yamahas DXR12's were better... but really wanted QSC. I eventually went DXR12 which were good value and bundled competively in a P.A package. Not saying ZLX's were bad but they didn't stand out and I think I recall there was a slight premium on them. If I was looking now, I would buy s/h K10's for £800...in VGC, (assuming I could find them) over the new prices of all the others in this range. I like the smoother horn and warranty of QSC ..plus I've never heard of one break. I found the RCF310 very harsh directionally ..but that makes them a decent monitor. You will definitely hear them if they are pointed out you..not so good for a close-up audience, IME. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleabag Posted August 31, 2016 Author Share Posted August 31, 2016 I will probably avoid 10's due to the fact that no subs will be used. Havent looked at QSC yet, so i'm going to hunt around, but as with the other quality cabs, i guess the price will be beyond me, unlesss i get lucky with some used gear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleabag Posted August 31, 2016 Author Share Posted August 31, 2016 That didnt take long ..QSC expensive 2nd hand only, but you never know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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