Jam Origin Midi Bass

[NowVertical]

Not been on Basschat for a very long time but recent research into a new amp and cab has led me this way again. The need for a new amp/cab combination has been driven by the following software

[url="http://www.jamorigin.com/products/midi-bass/"]http://www.jamorigin...ucts/midi-bass/[/url]

It is only in beta and is not polyphonic but has changed the musical landscape for me having been a very traditional no effects sort of guy. It converts your audio signal into midi in realtime.

So my set up is as follows:

Bass > RME UCX > Laptop > RME UCX > Amp

Ableton Set up:
1 audio channel with the midi bass plugin inserted converting my live bass feed into midi
As many midi channels as you want with inserted virtual instruments using the midi output from the midi bass plugin inserted o the audio channel.. Each of these channels can be pitch shifted i.e. one synth running at -12 one +12 etc

Roland fc-300 midi foot controller:
Expression pedal 1 assigned as cross fader between dry and synth outputs.
Expression pedal 2 assigned to Filter cut off of all synths
I use the other pedals to enable/disable the midi channels/vsti i.e can have one or multiple synths running at the same time.

I have a pretty powerful laptop and decent audio interface so others may not be so lucky...but this thing tracks with no perceivable latency! Only been experimenting with this set up for a month at rehearsals for a new band but the potential is awesome.

This set up also allows me to add effects to my dry signal.

If you like your electronic music and have the kit then I thoroughly recommend giving the demo a try. It could save you a lot of money in hardware pedals if you are not a purist!

Now I just need to find a full range, flat response cab for this new setup that can still suit my other bands that prefer my more no effects traditional fretless with flats approach.

I have nothing to do with the company just trying to give something back the basschat community.

Edited September 22, 2016 by NowVertical

[AustinArto]

Surely there must be noticeable latency on low notes? I've never used a pitch-tracking plugin than didn't add 40ms or so.

I will try the demo tonight and report back!

[BigRedX]

Like the way it says "comparable to hardware solutions"...

Considering that IME all the pitch to MIDI hardware solutions add too much latency to be any use unless you learn to play ahead of the beat, I too am rather sceptical. And some are considerably worse than others...

However I will be downloading the demo as well to see what I think of it in practice.

[AustinArto]

I gave it a try earlier. It's quite quick sometimes but 'sometimes' doesn't really do the job.

[NowVertical]

Well I suppose it is horses for courses:

"It's quite quick sometimes but 'sometimes' doesn't really do the job." I am quite surprised by your comments as I have found it to be very consistent and I suppose because I mainly use a blended signal when playing lower down the neck the attack of my dry signal glosses over any increased latency. Although having said that I am generally a finger funk sort of guy and I really do not find the latency impacts my feel at all.

I have played bass for 30+ years and been a Cubase and Ableton user since the early days and find this rig brings together both interests in a live context.

As stated in my opening post I have nothing to gain by bringing attention to this software, it is working for me and if you are interested in this sort of set up I think it is worth trying the demo to find out whether your hardware can provide the playability that I feel I am getting. I used the demo for several days and was so persuaded that I paid the money and have not had regrets since + you get access to the vst plugin (can be added as an insert in a audio channel) and if like me you dabble in those six string things the guitar version comes as part of the deal.

I am persuaded. However, it might be helpful for others looking in to this subject if anyone else who actually trials this leave comments of their experience, perhaps giving an idea of the hardware they were using.

My hardware:
RME UCX
Laptop Dell XPS 9550 i7

[NowVertical]

OK so exciting times.

Picking up a Barefaced Big Twin II tomorrow and if the trial works well will be selling my lovely (but heavy) EBS Prolines 410 and 115 in November that I have been using for the last 7 years. The barefaced will have a lot to live up to, but I am hoping for my backs sake and for the full range synth/sample sounds that it works out well.

I still love the Jam Origin Midi Bass software and still thoroughly recommend it as a cheap way of testing the midi bass world. However, the fact it is monophonic and does seem to misbehave occasionally is a bit of a barrier to more than just using sounds in the background blended with the natural bass. I have a learnt a lot in the process and will still use it at home. I have just purchased something from the basses for sale forum that I hope will open up a whole new world of midi. As a result I will need to sell some basses and probably arms and legs but I am sure it was the right decision.

I have used a EBS TD650 (now getting repaired) for the last 7 years and have loved it, but some reoccurring faults and finally a dead DI output forced me to purchase a GK MB Fusion 800 to cover some gigs in the last few months. To start with I was not sure, there was something missing, the immediacy of the TD650 was not there. However, I realised the sound of the GK was not worse, just different, and now I am actually really enjoying the GK and band members/audiences have had good things to say. There may be something in the lack of heft for these small heads but once your ears adjust it is not all bad and given time I think the GK is looking like a keeper.

OK so not really about effects but it seemed appropriate to follow on from previous post.

[AustinArto]

In the first post you had it tracking with no perceived latency, then in the next you'd conceded that blending in your dry signal glossed over the latency, but you still found it to be very consistent, then finally you've said it misbehaves occasionally.

Glad I didn't rush out and buy an RME interface...

[Kiwi]

I mentioned what Jam Origin were up to on the last post about MIDIbass/synth bass. It was OK but did have minor latency issues down the lower registers, no worse than on my Graphtec/Axon AXON system.

The only way to avoid latency issues in pitch to MIDI conversion is to avoid pitch to MIDI. The best solution out there is by Steve Chick, who designed an electronic resistance based system that was licensed to Valley Arts, Wal and then Peavey. He's since developed his own range of basses under the Industrial Radio brand but none of those systems were cheap or easy to fix if they went wrong. More over, you still had to play very cleanly and deliberately on those basses too if you wanted to avoid false triggers...just like you do on all the other systems including the Deep Impact and Future Impact. Just something a player's gotta learn if they want to use the system, but it's possible if the effort is put in. Playing quickly and percussively is still pretty tricky though.

It's a shame no one makes push button fretboard, game controller type bits of kit in a 34" scale. It might be an ideal solution.

[Kiwi]

Speak of the devil...

http://www.starrlabs.com/product/zbass/

[elephantgrey]

[quote name='Kiwi' timestamp='1476025133' post='3150510']
I mentioned what Jam Origin were up to on the last post about MIDIbass/synth bass. It was OK but did have minor latency issues down the lower registers, no worse than on my Graphtec/Axon AXON system.

The only way to avoid latency issues in pitch to MIDI conversion is to avoid pitch to MIDI. The best solution out there is by Steve Chick, who designed an electronic resistance based system that was licensed to Valley Arts, Wal and then Peavey. He's since developed his own range of basses under the Industrial Radio brand but none of those systems were cheap or easy to fix if they went wrong. More over, you still had to play very cleanly and deliberately on those basses too if you wanted to avoid false triggers...just like you do on all the other systems including the Deep Impact and Future Impact. Just something a player's gotta learn if they want to use the system, but it's possible if the effort is put in. Playing quickly and percussively is still pretty tricky though.

It's a shame no one makes push button fretboard, game controller type bits of kit in a 34" scale. It might be an ideal solution.
[/quote]
[size=3]from Industrial Radio site:[/size]
[size=3][quote]
[b] Do you have plans to make a 6-string Fretsense Bass in the near future?[/b]

[color=#333333][font=proxima-nova, sans-serif, sans-serif]No.[/font][/color]
[/quote]
[/size]

Edited October 9, 2016 by elephantgrey

[Kiwi]

Yeah but I had a go on a prototype 5 string back in 2010 though. If he can get Warmoth to supply the parts and you ask him nice, he might compromise. It sounds like he's made huge progress in managing the false triggering issue too if the demo vid is any indication.

[NowVertical]

[quote name='AustinArto' timestamp='1476023595' post='3150495']
In the first post you had it tracking with no perceived latency, then in the next you'd conceded that blending in your dry signal glossed over the latency, but you still found it to be very consistent, then finally you've said it misbehaves occasionally.

Glad I didn't rush out and buy an RME interface...
[/quote]

Fair comment, albeit very un-friendly in tone. I was going to justify that my posts kept track of my findings over time and perhaps go on to update how I get on with the new tool. However, it is apparent that I am too sensitive for these forums, can't review for toffee and so will retreat back to making music rather than trying to discuss it. Cheers

[AustinArto]

[quote name='NowVertical' timestamp='1476365944' post='3153676']


Fair comment, albeit very un-friendly in tone. I was going to justify that my posts kept track of my findings over time and perhaps go on to update how I get on with the new tool. However, it is apparent that I am too sensitive for these forums, can't review for toffee and so will retreat back to making music rather than trying to discuss it. Cheers
[/quote]

Apologies for being glib. I felt that you were suggesting my own bad experience was down to not owning the most expensive brand of audio interface, but then gradually conceded it wasn't working for you either, hence my terse reply.