Fender American Series being discontinued.

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1474310867' post='3137046']
I think the CS is a distinctly average build. The only thing that perpetuates the whole deal, IMO, is the F on the headstock.
People say the 2012 builds upped their game across the board..?? but I just don't think Fender are that interested or committed to that goal, they just want to do enough to continue selling.

The really discerning buyer knows there is much better value elsewhere... For example, a Sei J5 would wipe the floor in every respect of a CS, a good few times over but their new prices are comparable.
One is a hand made bespoke instrument and the other is a bitsa from other ranges in the brand... namely the American Deluxe. IMHO, of course.
The Am Deluxe is discontinued and is replaced by what... a new name and promo campaign..??
[/quote]

I'm not sure I agree with that - some of the custom shop builders are world class and work for Fender for the kudos and security that brings. Just because it's not a Martin Peterson bass doesn't mean that an instrument coming out of Fender CS is not on the mark. I've seen some stunning Seis and I've seen some stunning Fenders. I've seen Seis that have done nothing for me and likewise with Fender. And I'm not sure I agree with bitsa element - I know of a guy who chose his woods and everything to the nth degree with a Fender CS build. BS like this on the internet is how throwaway comments turn into Internet fact.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='Sparky Mark' timestamp='1474319781' post='3137175']
I'm not sure that I entirely agree that the 2012 and later are any better than 2008 through 2012 American Standards.

I have a few examples of these vintages and the only significant difference is the custom shop pups fitted since 2012. The standard pups that were fitted from 2008 to 2012 are slightly more modern sounding (clearer and hotter output) whilst the custom shops are warmer old school. Both sound great and I wouldn't have a problem with using either.

The hardware, other than the latest machine heads have remained the same since 2008 to date. The fit and finish has been excellent since 2008 and the USA high mass bridge with through body stringing option is as good as any. The cheaper cast and BBOT bridges fitted to non USA Fenders just don't have the same build quality (probably sound just as good though).

For me the most desirable Fenders are the USA standard series, not the higher specification deluxe/elite models that they have released through the years and I am sad that Fender might be ceasing production of this iconic series.
[/quote]

I'd say since 2008, the American Standard basses have been much better than previously. The 2012 inclusion of Custom Shop pickups was no doubt just a refresh, and in fact, the build quality and stunning cases you used to get with the American Standards tended to be focussed until 2008-until recent years. When they went back to the standard rectangle cases, that was a disappointment.

[FinnDave]

Certainly agree about the cases, the US standard Jazz I bought earlier this year came with a case identical (apart from the covering, vinyl instead of tweed) to the one that came with my MiM Classic 60s Jazz three years ago.

The previous US standard I bought came with a chunky flight case.

[Lw.]

I find it hard to believe they're going to stop making off-the-peg passive basses in the US - it is of course hard to say without insider info but I'd be more inclined to agree that they're probably just re-branding them to "US-Professional" or similar & giving them a bit of a spruce up.

For me the American Standards are the bass all others are compared to & are the go to when you need something simple you can rely on when gigging - they're clearly not "the best" money can buy but they're the line where quality starts. They must be a significant proportion of Fenders overall sales too - I just don't think players will want to be spending over a grand on a mexican Fender, that's just not what the brand is about despite them playing fine.

Fender detractors are always going to come out in threads like this but meaningless put-downs & suggestions of other brands don't have any impact on this discussion.

[Nicko]

Seems to me that Fender will do what they have done constantly, move production to a lower cost factory and charge the same money for the series. I agree the range is too complicated, but getting rid of the standard series would make that worse because you'd have to go with something that is not the base model if you want a us serial no..

[Musicman20]

Perhaps, as alluded to above, they will simply have a lower end Mexican Standard and a higher end Mexican manufactured 'Professional' line...

I have 2 AS basses from post 2008, and they are both great.

I have a Road Worn Flea Bass and a Baja Telecaster, both Mexican manufactured. Both instruments have an extremely high build quality, and I am a fussy buyer. The only let down is the gig bags, but seen as though I bought both before recent rises, (the Baja was a very good price) they are good 'value' for what they are....and I don't see them as any less compared to the AS basses I have.

[stingrayPete1977]

The mex stuff was ok around the £500 Mark tops imo, I had a mex strat that was nice for less than £400, now they are nearly in USA price territory.

[ead]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1474311811' post='3137065']
A lot of buyers have one eye on resale (not me actually) and anything other than one with the big F on it just doesn't hold it's value the same, we have pages of basses in the for sale section that cost £2500-3500 to have built for sale often for months for £1000-1500.

Also the buyers are often 50+ guys that are treating themselves to a bass/guitar they lusted after when younger, the people researching xotic, sei, Roscoe, GB etc etc are in the minority compared to buyers of instruments with an F on purchased and never gigged.
[/quote]

I think much of this is true. However in defence of older citizens with custom-made basses, I would just add that the average new price of my ACGs is c£1,150 all of which are gigged regularly; a couple of hundred less than a new American Std bass give or take.

[JTUK]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1474364193' post='3137357']
Perhaps, as alluded to above, they will simply have a lower end Mexican Standard and a higher end Mexican manufactured 'Professional' line...

I have 2 AS basses from post 2008, and they are both great.

I have a Road Worn Flea Bass and a Baja Telecaster, both Mexican manufactured. Both instruments have an extremely high build quality, and I am a fussy buyer. The only let down is the gig bags, but seen as though I bought both before recent rises, (the Baja was a very good price) they are good 'value' for what they are....and I don't see them as any less compared to the AS basses I have.
[/quote]

I've owned a CS and they use parts that are used in the Am deluxe model. That means the pre amp, the bridge and probably the pickups are the same and none of them jump out at you as top quality parts.
The stock tuners aren't that great either, so basically that CS uses parts from a 'lesser' model...IMO.

The paint job might be different, and the wood a grade up, but nothing that shouts at at nearly £3k which you'd pay for a new one if i'm not mistaken.

In that respect the Am Deluxe would be an ok price, but I'm thinking people wouldn't pay it too often over a Standard...?
So that means the F badge is still the driver in this and I don't believe CS is any standard to boast about and especially for the new price.

The only reason I bought one was because all the deflation had been suffered by someone else and I knew I'd benefit from the F CS brand if/when I sold, but there is no way I'll pretend it is any benchmark.
It just isn't so... I would put CS as maybe comparable to a Metro... and what would sort the winner out between those two would be the quality of the components, which I think the Sadowsky would win..especially against the poor bridge and pre amp of the CS/AM Deluxe.

I basically swapped out all the hardware on a CS... so I bought the wood basically.. and I'd have done better getting someone like Sims to scan my required dims on some nice wood..and fitted decent after parts from Hipshot and the like. It would have been a much better bass, I'd wager, but the problem would have been trying to get £1k for it when selling...

Edited September 20, 2016 by JTUK

[Hobbayne]

I have an American Standard P bass, but I much prefer the MIM Nate Mendel. I have ripped out the Quarter Pounders and replaced them with spb1.s.
Vintage loveliness all round.

[Sammers]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1474376815' post='3137481']
The stock tuners aren't that great either, so basically that CS uses parts from a 'lesser' model...IMO.
[/quote]

You're paying for the customisation options rather than upgraded hardware, surely?
That's what I've always thought the custom shop was, essentially just an American Fender but with the option to change a few bits

[Sparky Mark]

[quote name='Sammers' timestamp='1474382320' post='3137532']


You're paying for the customisation options rather than upgraded hardware, surely?
That's what I've always thought the custom shop was, essentially just an American Fender but with the option to change a few bits
[/quote]

Plus, as has already been mentioned, selected higher grade woods.

[JTUK]

[quote name='Sammers' timestamp='1474382320' post='3137532']
You're paying for the customisation options rather than upgraded hardware, surely?
That's what I've always thought the custom shop was, essentially just an American Fender but with the option to change a few bits
[/quote]

Do you get that choice..?? Not sure you do?
I didn't buy it new, thankfully, but I've looked at a few CS options, and they don't seem to itemise what you can 'customise' very well.

I agree ..colours and neck profile and maybe the woods... altho how much you can actually pick yourself is unclear...and for that, you pay an extra £1k plus..?

[stingrayPete1977]

All fenders need buying on how good they are rather than which model and where it was made. The old us jazz V with five tuners in a row was awful, one of the worst bases I've ever played do I never thought I'd own a jazz five, the later ones are a totally different animal think God and I love mine even though I've pulled the passive controls out for a bartolini circuit

[Pinball]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1474389718' post='3137618']
All fenders need buying on how good they are rather than which model and where it was made. The old us jazz V with five tuners in a row was awful, one of the worst bases I've ever played do I never thought I'd own a jazz five, the later ones are a totally different animal think God and I love mine even though I've pulled the passive controls out for a bartolini circuit
[/quote]

I remember playing one of those in line tuner 5's. It was so bad that it made me angry. I just couldn't get my head around how anyone could charge that much for such a bad bass. The B string was awful. I have no problems with the newer ones as they are great. £1500+ seems a lot for a 5 string precision though. Also I didn't like the Dimersion much...the sound seemed over engineered for my tastes

[stingrayPete1977]

They were like a four string with a B string weren't they?, weird body shape, horrible colours, just rubbish! They put me off the idea for years but the new ones can be crackin'

[tauzero]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1474303977' post='3136971']
I still like US models from all the big players, call me a snob but still feel short changed paying USA money for basses built elsewhere.
[/quote]

Even for Warwicks?

[LayDownThaFunk]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1474303977' post='3136971']
I still like US models from all the big players, call me a snob but still feel short changed paying USA money for basses built elsewhere.
[/quote]
So Status, ACG, Iceni, Warwick, Yamaha no good?

[FinnDave]

[quote name='LayDownThaFunk' timestamp='1474484750' post='3138370']
So Status, ACG, Iceni, Warwick, Yamaha no good?
[/quote]

Status is a local booking agent, AGC make cookers or some other white goods, Iceni sounds like the name of a celtic tribe, Warwick's in the midlands, and Yamaha make motorbikes. Can't see the connection with bass guitars. I'll continue to play basses made by the company known for producing car bumpers in America.

[machinehead]

[quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1474489354' post='3138416']
Status is a local booking agent, AGC make cookers or some other white goods, Iceni sounds like the name of a celtic tribe, Warwick's in the midlands, and Yamaha make motorbikes. Can't see the connection with bass guitars. I'll continue to play basses made by the company known for producing car bumpers in America.
[/quote]

Hahaha. Brilliant.

Frank.

[AndyTravis]

Although I can't see it, I wouldn't put it past them.

Of course I'm a genius who should run Fender 😂

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='LayDownThaFunk' timestamp='1474484750' post='3138370']

So Status, ACG, Iceni, Warwick, Yamaha no good?
[/quote]

I prefer musicman, g and l, fender, Lakland.

I've got a Yamaha, pics are in the "so who rides motorbikes?" thread

[karlfer]

It's interesting that both the new Jazz and Precision Mex Deluxe now have active/passive switching like their more expensive relatives

[URL=http://s1354.photobucket.com/user/Karl_Altdorfer/media/s-l1600_zpse4y7a9av.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q693/Karl_Altdorfer/s-l1600_zpse4y7a9av.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

[Musicman20]

Maybe they have been spending the last 5 years making sure the Mexican factory is producing great work so that they can, as noted above, use it for their 'top of the line before American Deluxe and Custom Shop' type basses.

I had a Fender Deville 4x10 guitar amps some years back. Mexican made. To be fair, the fit and finish was good. One of the speakers was either faulty from the factory or it developed with barely any use, and it took a lot of messing about to get it sorted. It did sound pretty decent....too loud and heavy for a guitar combo though.

Fast forward to 2014/15 ish, and I want to buy a good clean Fender again. I ended up buying a Fender 68 Custom Deluxe Reverb, and it is absolutely superb. The tone is stunning, and the fit and finish is extremely good. I am very happy with it. Guess what? Mexican made! People are choosing it over the American made 65 Deluxe Reverb!

Lines are blurring now...

Edited September 23, 2016 by Musicman20

[markstuk]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1474376815' post='3137481']


I basically swapped out all the hardware on a CS... so I bought the wood basically.. and I'd have done better getting someone like Sims to scan my required dims on some nice wood..and fitted decent after parts from Hipshot and the like. It would have been a much better bass, I'd wager, but the problem would have been trying to get [color=#ff0000][b]£1k for it when selling.[/b][/color]..
[/quote]

+1 In red. I have a custom Jazz 5 which is worth less than the bridge/tuners/preamp and pickups unless someone takes a shine to it. I did not take the original hit (apart from some shielding work and new preamp) but I suspect it's mine forever..