Barefaced FR800 - Anyone with Experience?

[doc40hz]

I'm thinking of getting a pair of these for use as PA. However,QSC K12 are significantly cheaper and have an excellent reputation it would seem. I can't find any reviews of the FR800.

[EBS_freak]

Add the RCF 735 / 745 to your list to look out. 3 and 4 inch voice coils in the highs - meaning your vocals are going to sound killer, freeing up the main driver to work with the lower frequencies. You can easily get by without subs with either of these units - and they'll quite happily take bass and kick drum.

[winterfire666]

im also tempted by a fr800 pa, anyone out there using them?
more info/comparisions would be great

[markstuk]

Drag Alex into the conversation? I'm surprised he's not jumped in already...

[markstuk]

I've just pinged him..

[51m0n]

Yeah a lot, many gigs with two or four of them as the pa. Frankly 4 is too much for my 7 piece band we don't need that much power....

You can't have any, they're all mine so there!

The best single cab a side pa solution I've ever heard, be warned they sound like mind bendingly loud studio monitors. You won't get thuddy blurred bass, or harsh distorted top end, even at war volume. Bass goes deep and is very punchy, mids have great detail, top end is plentiful but not at all harsh.

I can carry two easily from car to venue.

Two fit with my rig in an old 3 series bmw. Square is a great shape for moving ☺

Here is a video shot on a good phone for audio, full disclosure, the bass is not going through the pa, that's my big twin 2.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1157743877603020&id=224894804221270

From outside the marquee on a less good phone at dealing with the huge spl

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10154868229452598&id=588604131173413

Using a behringer xr18 to mix on btw...

Edited October 10, 2016 by 51m0n

[Chienmortbb]

I have not heard the Barefaced but was product manager for Panasonic at one time. Our old square cabinets WS-A200 were great solid lumps but then trapezoidal replacement WS-AT200 were pants. The moulding of the complex shapes makes it difficult to make a solid, non flexing cabinet. Ironically the WS-AT200 used pine struts about 1" x1" (25mm x25mm) in an attempt to keep the cabinet from flexing. Remember we are talking very high pressure sound waves in side the cabinets. The typical Composite Top cabinets (yes I include the Mackie, RCF, Yamaha) are a vast improvement over those early composite cabinets but are still a design compromises. From what I have read the FR800 does not make those compromises.

Now the Mackie, RCF, Yamaha etc have come a long way and are better than the early designs and should not be ruled out, however if you have the money, use the one month trial on the FR-800 and if you do not like them, save yourself a few hundred pounds and buy one of the Mackie, RCF, Yamaha that are often suggested.

One thing that is interesting about the FR800 is that adding the subs (LF800) does not take the frequency response lower, from the Barefaced Blurb

"[color=#333333] Note that the LF800 does not extend the bass response, it just increases output and headroom by sharing the load in the most demanding region of the spectrum." [/color]

[51m0n]

[quote name='Chienmortbb' timestamp='1476174115' post='3151887']
I have not heard the Barefaced but was product manager for Panasonic at one time. Our old square cabinets WS-A200 were great solid lumps but then trapezoidal replacement WS-AT200 were pants. The moulding of the complex shapes makes it difficult to make a solid, non flexing cabinet. Ironically the WS-AT200 used pine struts about 1" x1" (25mm x25mm) in an attempt to keep the cabinet from flexing. Remember we are talking very high pressure sound waves in side the cabinets. The typical Composite Top cabinets (yes I include the Mackie, RCF, Yamaha) are a vast improvement over those early composite cabinets but are still a design compromises. From what I have read the FR800 does not make those compromises.

Now the Mackie, RCF, Yamaha etc have come a long way and are better than the early designs and should not be ruled out, however if you have the money, use the one month trial on the FR-800 and if you do not like them, save yourself a few hundred pounds and buy one of the Mackie, RCF, Yamaha that are often suggested.

One thing that is interesting about the FR800 is that adding the subs (LF800) does not take the frequency response lower, from the Barefaced Blurb

"[color=#333333] Note that the LF800 does not extend the bass response, it just increases output and headroom by sharing the load in the most demanding region of the spectrum." [/color]
[/quote]

The FR800 is square (well cuboid) and uses all the clever bracing tech that BF have spent years developing for their bass cabs, these are just as rigid.

The FR800 is not a typical mid-top PA cabinet, it really is a full range cab, hence my comment about it being more like a super loud studio monitor than a typical PA cab of these dimensions.

The LF800 doesn't extend the bottom end, because it already is full range, but it does effectively double it, since that is, as you say, where you really need more power for getting very very loud.

Note BF are currently designing and testing a 1x18 sub, which will definitely add some whump...

Edited October 17, 2016 by 51m0n

[wateroftyne]

These have slipped under my radar. I'm intrigued...

[51m0n]

They aren't going to do a big big hall, but they will do a very big pub or with four of them a small to medium hall or a large marquee, two is very loud for a small marquee, we found out that four for a small marquee is insane

Edited October 11, 2016 by 51m0n

[markstuk]

And of course a simple cab stand will turn them into nice floor monitors :-)

[51m0n]

They are overkill for floor monitors IMO

[Chienmortbb]

[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1476188524' post='3152077']


The FR800 is square (well cuboid) and uses all the clever bracing tech that BF have spent years developing for their bass cabs, these are just as rigid.

The FR800 is not a typical mid-top PA cabinet, it really is a full range cab, hence my comment about it being more like a super loud studio monitor than a typical PA cab of these dimensions.

The LF800 doesn't extend the bottom end, because it already is full range, but it does effectively double it, since that is, as you say, where you really need more power for getting very very loud.

Note BF are currently designing and testing a 1x18 sub, which will definitely add some whump...


[/quote]Wheb I said square I meant a cube or cuboid. My point was that a properly braced wood cabinet will almost always, outperform a composite box that is fundamentally a trapezoid.

I am not sure if my post was unclear but you are reinforcing my points while seeming to disagree. It is good to hear about the 18" sub in development but it is a bit off topic.

[crez5150]

[quote name='markstuk' timestamp='1476191087' post='3152120']
And of course a simple cab stand will turn them into nice floor monitors :-)
[/quote]

Stand monitors surely ;o)

[markstuk]

[quote name='crez5150' timestamp='1476194617' post='3152172']
Stand monitors surely ;o)
[/quote]

Only teeny ones that keep the cab close to the floor :-)

[largo]

I tried to convince the guys in the band to try the BF PA system when we were looking at a new PA. Unfortunately, being relatively unknown outside the bass-playing community & the "homemade" look meant the rest of the band wouldn't entertain spending £4K on the BF system, trial or no trial. We ended up going for the QSC KW112 tops & subs in the end.

[winterfire666]

[quote name='largo' timestamp='1476201234' post='3152254']
I tried to convince the guys in the band to try the BF PA system when we were looking at a new PA. Unfortunately, being relatively unknown outside the bass-playing community & the "homemade" look meant the rest of the band wouldn't entertain spending £4K on the BF system, trial or no trial. We ended up going for the QSC KW112 tops & subs in the end.
[/quote]
i can see this happening a lot, when we buy a new pa im looking for reasons to put my foot down, thats why im after more info/testamonials before i pitch it to the band although tbh they will probably go with whatever i say anyway.
i will feel better about it with a bit more info though.

[taunton-hobbit]

The 18" sub has been muttered about for quite a while now - would be nice if Alex could update us?

[crez5150]

[quote name='largo' timestamp='1476201234' post='3152254']
I tried to convince the guys in the band to try the BF PA system when we were looking at a new PA. Unfortunately, being relatively unknown outside the bass-playing community & the "homemade" look meant the rest of the band wouldn't entertain spending £4K on the BF system, trial or no trial. We ended up going for the QSC KW112 tops & subs in the end.
[/quote]

Plus you have residual value to consider if the 'band' are buying.

[stingrayPete1977]

I wouldn't want a non active pa system in this day and age, we've got an xair mixer, 2 RCF 735A speakers and two powered db monitors, that will do a typical wedding marquee if I use a large 2x12 bass cab as backline supported by the foh (no need for bins with 735 or 745 which is why they are a grand each),a beer festival or large outdoor gig we won't be doing the PA so it's out of our hands.

Having a 1400 watt amp in the back of each speaker rather than dragging more gear around wins for me

[51m0n]

[quote name='Chienmortbb' timestamp='1476194230' post='3152165']
Wheb I said square I meant a cube or cuboid. My point was that a properly braced wood cabinet will almost always, outperform a composite box that is fundamentally a trapezoid.

I am not sure if my post was unclear but you are reinforcing my points while seeming to disagree. It is good to hear about the 18" sub in development but it is a bit off topic.
[/quote]

Not disagreeing at all just agreeing from the point of view of someone who has schlepped them, heard them and used them extensively 😆

[51m0n]

[quote name='taunton-hobbit' timestamp='1476202158' post='3152271']
The 18" sub has been muttered about for quite a while now - would be nice if Alex could update us?


[/quote]

That picture was off the facebook barefaced owners group posted by Bobby. No doubt he would have posted on here but some bright spark disabled his account.......

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1476212800' post='3152428']
I wouldn't want a non active pa system in this day and age, we've got an xair mixer, 2 RCF 735A speakers and two powered db monitors, that will do a typical wedding marquee if I use a large 2x12 bass cab as backline supported by the foh (no need for bins with 735 or 745 which is why they are a grand each),a beer festival or large outdoor gig we won't be doing the PA so it's out of our hands.

Having a 1400 watt amp in the back of each speaker rather than dragging more gear around wins for me
[/quote]

The FR800s are active - they use a fairly standard amp, with the ability to alter the DSP - the cabs for the lowend basically have a different dsp to the tops. I spoke to Alex about this - I would always buy tops and ask him to add the lowend DSP setting to it - seems more versatile that way.

Edited October 11, 2016 by EBS_freak

[51m0n]

There are 4 eq curves baked in to the FR800

There is a little push switch on the back that you use to cycle through them.

It is important to check that both cabs have the same curve

They get progressively bass heavy and 'loud' on the pair I have used, I have a couple of pieces of reference material I play through the rig and go ou front have a listen and find the DSP setting that sounds best in the venue, five minutes effort maximum, before we go any further with fine tuning a band mix saves tonnes of faff with mixes. Ith the Behringer XR18 the eq curves on the different tracks, the compression and gain are all preset, I just tweak the mix and bring up the right level in the FOH and monitors and we are golden. Total mix time for a quick set up is five minutes, if we have longer I can get as precise as I like. This has been a complete game changer for me, we have never sounded as good live as we have with this PA set up....

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1476263347' post='3152726']
There are 4 eq curves baked in to the FR800

There is a little push switch on the back that you use to cycle through them.

It is important to check that both cabs have the same curve

They get progressively bass heavy and 'loud' on the pair I have used, I have a couple of pieces of reference material I play through the rig and go ou front have a listen and find the DSP setting that sounds best in the venue, five minutes effort maximum, before we go any further with fine tuning a band mix saves tonnes of faff with mixes. Ith the Behringer XR18 the eq curves on the different tracks, the compression and gain are all preset, I just tweak the mix and bring up the right level in the FOH and monitors and we are golden. Total mix time for a quick set up is five minutes, if we have longer I can get as precise as I like. This has been a complete game changer for me, we have never sounded as good live as we have with this PA set up....
[/quote]

I get what you are saying - but essentially it's no different to changing the eq on the main outs on the desk, you are just doing it on the speakers rather than the desk (and limited to the 4 presets). Everybody should be tuning the PA to the room as best practice anyway.