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How Do You Value Yourself As A Musician, What Are You Worth?


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[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1476701518' post='3156348']
Could you use your credibility as a band supporting national acts as a way of upping your bar fee?
[/quote]

Bars will never pay the same fee (or even get close) as a big event. They can't make enough profit to do that. But a bar can book you through the entire year as an event normally takes place once a year.

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[quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1476701910' post='3156358']


Bars will never pay the same fee (or even get close) as a big event. They can't make enough profit to do that. But a bar can book you through the entire year as an event normally takes place once a year.
[/quote]

Didn't quite mean it that way, not matching the fee but upping it.

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[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1476702333' post='3156368']
Didn't quite mean it that way, not matching the fee but upping it.
[/quote]

Do you mean approaching a bar manager with a poster in one hand (of your band supporting at Wembley stadium)?
while blowing a super 'C' on a Trumpet being held with the other hand (Maynard Ferguson style)?
That should work. :D

I agree with you.

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However good you might be, or think you are, you are only worth what someone is prepared to pay you. If you become a full band member then you would be ok, what with gigs and royalties etc. If you become a hired gun then you have little idea where the next gig will come from as Its dog eat dog in the session world and musicians will literally walk over each other for the gig.

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[quote name='Damonjames' timestamp='1476690298' post='3156214']


I know a musician who isaid in 2 bands that gig at large festivals (are signed and have albums released) and has to juggle his diary between these two, a VERY busy function band, does a jam night once a month and picks up dep work when he can. He also teaches lessons
The function band comes closest to covering his day to day running costs, my point is, if you are a working group musician you need to take what's on offer regardless of whether you tHinksey it's below your worth as you don't know where the next gig will come.from
[/quote]

Well, right now my band offers consistent bar, festival and fair gigs.I know where my next gig is well into 2017. It's still below my worth IMO. I have to do it until I find something better.

I'm still not sure what your point is and a US functions band is not the sort of thing I'm looking for.

I'm talking about bands that are on the road gigging 5 -6 nights a week with international travel.

Blue

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[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1476647171' post='3155988']
For me it`s the audience/industry that determine this (originals bands here I`m talking about). If your audiences keep growing then you should move higher up the bill, which should generate more income, and hopefully more sales of your merch, if you`ve decided to go down that route. At some point you may then be able to get backing from the industry in some form or another.
[/quote]

Maybe, personally I think it's all about business connections and being in the right place at the right time.

Blue

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[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1476690317' post='3156215']
Lots of expressions come to mind, such as 'The grass is always greener...' and 'A bird in the hand...'. Although there's always 'Don't hide your light under a bushel' too, I suppose. Why this sudden evangelistic ambition, though..? Has there been a shock to the system, or just a late spell of jealousy..?
[/quote]

No, we have been opening for a few national headliners and I have chatted with these guys. For me what they are doing is all pro and a lot better than breaking your back doing 4 hour bar shows.

Until I find something better I'm stuck.

But yes a big change in my philosophy, here it is;

IMO I'm worth more than $125.00 a gig.

Blue

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[quote name='Burns-bass' timestamp='1476691827' post='3156234']


I'm talking about post-gig, not during. Also, we were an originals band playing no more than an hour to an hour and a half per night, it's different because music wasn't treated as a commodity in the same way as it is when you're in a covers band.

Playing your own music to a large group of people (sometimes big gigs, often just a few hundred) is a huge adrenaline rush.

If I were out doing Mustang Sally on the wedding circuit week in and out (which I know a few people do, they love it and they earn a decent amount - so please don't think I'm. Ring negative of judgemental) perhaps I'd feel differently, but I don't.
[/quote]


You must not read my threads were a blues rock band with 2 CDs of originals released. We play to crowds from 50 people to 1,500.

We're not a "Mustang Sally" cover band. We're a local bar band. Quite different than a cover band.

Blue

Edited by blue
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[quote name='itsmedunc' timestamp='1476733098' post='3156816']
Would not ever play for 4 hours! My arms would drop off! Done well paid gigs and poorly paid gigs. Comes with the job I suppose. Would be nice to be paid what I think I'm worth all the time but that's not going to happen in my situation...
[/quote]

In the States if your a bar band it's 4 hours, take it or leave it.

New Year's Eve, we play a 3-7, pack up and go directly to a 9-1.

Blue

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[quote name='blue' timestamp='1476732350' post='3156805']


Well, right now my band offers consistent bar, festival and fair gigs.I know where my next gig is well into 2017. It's still below my worth IMO. I have to do it until I find something better.

I'm still not sure what your point is and a US functions band is not the sort of thing I'm looking for.

I'm talking about bands that are on the road gigging 5 -6 nights a week with international travel.

Blue
[/quote]
I think what he is trying to say is that these bands don't work anything like 52 weeks a year and you still need to pay the rent in the down periods.

Everyone I know that does that kind of gig has a sideline they can fall back on when they're not on the road.

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[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1476733717' post='3156834']

I think what he is trying to say is that these bands don't work anything like 52 weeks a year and you still need to pay the rent in the down periods.

Everyone I know that does that kind of gig has a sideline they can fall back on when they're not on the road.
[/quote]

I get what your saying Pete.

I'm wondering if my life circumstance is unusual. Not many bills and nothing tieing me down?

Guess it depends on your personal situation. My Milwaukee condo is not mortgaged. I own it free and clear. My point, my expenses are very low.

Ideally I would do bar gigs during down times.

Blue

Edited by blue
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[quote name='blue' timestamp='1476643613' post='3155937']
I'm starting to think a little differently about the 4 hour bar gig, festival and fair market.

Last night we opened for a national act. All I needed was my bass, and pedal board. Lighting and sound provided.

We played for an hour and we're paid twice our 4 hour bar fee.

Ok, whether you like it or not this is a business, at least it is for me. I think I'm devaluing myself in the bar band market and should start making plans to move up a bit.

It's a hard business and I'm still up for the challenge.

Comments, thoughts?

Blue
[/quote]

I can't actually think of any gigs I've been to where a covers band was opening for a big name act. I suppose you'd maybe have more chance of achieving your goal if you were playing original music but then we all know how easy that is to get work if you're not signed :rolleyes:

You're in a band that works regularly and there's no guarantee that another band who has some good gigs lined up are always going to have them whereas with your current band, you never seem to be out of work.

I'm not saying you shouldn't go for it Blue but the first thing you need to do is decide whether you think your current band is undervalued or whether you think your personal ability as a musician warrants more money. If it's the former, and it all works well personality wise in your bar band, wouldn't it be better to see if you all can find better paid work with the people you're comfortable with?

If it's the latter, then keep your eye out for an opportunity and grab it if it comes around.

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[quote name='blue' timestamp='1476733955' post='3156836']


Guess it depends on your personal situation. My Milwaukee condo is not mortgaged. I own it free and clear. My point, my expenses are very low.

Ideally I would do bar gigs during down times.

Blue
[/quote]
That puts you in a good position if the right opportunity presents itself.

Obviously you would need to put together a pickup band that is happy to play when you're available, possibly because they are in a similar position or have got other things going on. Teaching is always a good sideline, as is teching for other bands if you really like being on the road.

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[quote name='leschirons' timestamp='1476734022' post='3156837']


I can't actually think of any gigs I've been to where a covers band was opening for a big name act. I suppose you'd maybe have more chance of achieving your goal if you were playing original music but then we all know how easy that is to get work if you're not signed :rolleyes:

You're in a band that works regularly and there's no guarantee that another band who has some good gigs lined up are always going to have them whereas with your current band, you never seem to be out of work.

I'm not saying you shouldn't go for it Blue but the first thing you need to do is decide whether you think your current band is undervalued or whether you think your personal ability as a musician warrants more money. If it's the former, and it all works well personality wise in your bar band, wouldn't it be better to see if you all can find better paid work with the people you're comfortable with?

If it's the latter, then keep your eye out for an opportunity and grab it if it comes around.
[/quote]

While we have 2 released cds of originals which we perform, I'd still say it's the latter.

Everyone else in the band is married with way more life responsibilities than me.

Blue

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We opened for Morland & Arbuckle Saturday night.while I wouldn't call them huge, they are a signed act and no longer have to play 4 hour shows. They're playing that festival in Skeggnes near Lincolnshire in January.

What they're doing is really appealing to me.The bass/guitarists player was explaining to me hard hard it is and that you have to be business person to do it.

He was very humble and doesn't take for granted he makes a living from music.

Blue

Edited by blue
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[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1476734329' post='3156845']

That puts you in a good position if the right opportunity presents itself.

Obviously you would need to put together a pickup band that is happy to play when you're available, possibly because they are in a similar position or have got other things going on. Teaching is always a good sideline, as is teching for other bands if you really like being on the road.
[/quote]

Pete, I feel I have to do something or quit complaining.

It's really frustrating or like some of you guys say, "frustra-in" 😁

Blue

Edited by blue
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you have the situation where you are business minded and fairly free.

you are questioning the need to play 4 hour shows and lugging gear, something which until today you have been totally happy to do so if your other posts have been anything to go by.

imo, you've made your mind up and you should be out there looking for a touring band not sitting here trying to justify it to yourself or us :)

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[quote name='martthebass' timestamp='1476734242' post='3156840']
Blue, I think your mind is made up, but you're still requesting comments/thoughts?

If you are dissatisfied with your current gig and truly believe you're worth more then go with it.
[/quote]

I love the band I'm with, but my situation
, musical wants and needs are different than the other members.

If I find something great if not I'm stuck in the 4 hour $125.00 a man world.

Blue

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[quote name='RockfordStone' timestamp='1476735370' post='3156859']
you have the situation where you are business minded and fairly free.

you are questioning the need to play 4 hour shows and lugging gear, something which until today you have been totally happy to do so if your other posts have been anything to go by.

imo, you've made your mind up and you should be out there looking for a touring band not sitting here trying to justify it to yourself or us :)
[/quote]

Point well taken and one of the few I can't argue.

Blue

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[quote name='RockfordStone' timestamp='1476735370' post='3156859']
you have the situation where you are business minded and fairly free.

you are questioning the need to play 4 hour shows and lugging gear, something which until today you have been totally happy to do so if your other posts have been anything to go by.

imo, you've made your mind up and you should be out there looking for a touring band not sitting here trying to justify it to yourself or us :)
[/quote]

/\ This. You have made your mind up you are better than the band and music you are playing. Asking a forum, based in Britain, what they think about you doing what you want to do, in the US music business, seems a bit odd. I for one have no idea what the gig situation is in the States.

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