How Do You Value Yourself As A Musician, What Are You Worth?

[martthebass]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1476735563' post='3156862']


I love the band I'm with, but my situation
, musical wants and needs are different than the other members.

If I find something great if not I'm stuck in the 4 hour $125.00 a man world.

Blue
[/quote]

That's my point Blue, you're ignoring comments from members you believe are in a different place to you. If you only recognise/take notice of comments that agree with your own then the request for comments is pointless.

[JTUK]

[quote name='mikel' timestamp='1476735700' post='3156865']
............... Asking a forum, based in Britain, what they think about you doing what you want to do, in the US music business, seems a bit odd..........
[/quote]

However, a friend of mine decided he wanted a life change and would give music a go. He was up and running well within a few months and he is very much in demand in his niche market. He was 'bemoaning' have a gig/wedding in Stockport or Southport and getting 2 hrs sleep before being back in Kent for another gig.
I reminded him this is what he wanted to do, but he knows his market, and can pick up gigs. All the bands knows he will dep them out or not be available and they seem to understand that.
He doesn't live 'well' but he is happy. He can do mini tours in Europe which pay ok, but I'd think his average gig pays less than $125...but he plays 2 hrs max.
He will have some good payers but he can't set his fee...others detemine how much they can pay him and he has to juggle and play all sorts.
I take my hat off to him and it wouldn't be for me,,,plus he is getting hearing problems...but he needs (and has) 5 or 6 regular gigs.

He is a sideman at a certain level... but if he decided he was 'worth' a certain fee he would most likely lose a few gigs that would just get someone else.
Setting the bar works if you can tell the guys, thanks but no thanks, to their offer.

If you can get to a stage where people must have you, then you can set your fee.... as these guys come looking for you, you don't look for them.

That is rare ground indeed...

[peteb]

[quote name='mikel' timestamp='1476735700' post='3156865']
/\ This. You have made your mind up you are better than the band and music you are playing. Asking a forum, based in Britain, what they think about you doing what you want to do, in the US music business, seems a bit odd. I for one have no idea what the gig situation is in the States.
[/quote]
I don't think there is anything wrong with asking people here for advice. A lot of the same factors apply and although the music scene in Milwaukee may be a bit different to the UK, but I know guys who play the Texas circuit and that's completely different again!

Giving up a solid working band to play in a different arena to the bar circuit is a bit step, especially if you rely on the money you earn from that band. I can understand Blue wanting to run it past his peers to see what they think, even if they are from another country...!

[blue]

[quote name='martthebass' timestamp='1476736277' post='3156875']


That's my point Blue, you're ignoring comments from members you believe are in a different place to you. If you only recognise/take notice of comments that agree with your own then the request for comments is pointless.
[/quote]


I must be missing something, I was hoping to hear more comments about how other members value their playing.

I don't know how it turned into the Blue Story. That was not my intention.

Blue

Edited October 17, 2016 by blue

[blue]

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1476739840' post='3156915']

I don't think there is anything wrong with asking people here for advice. A lot of the same factors apply and although the music scene in Milwaukee may be a bit different to the UK, but I know guys who play the Texas circuit and that's completely different again!

Giving up a solid working band to play in a different arena to the bar circuit is a bit step, especially if you rely on the money you earn from that band. I can understand Blue wanting to run it past his peers to see what they think, even if they are from another country...!
[/quote]

I rely on you folks in the UK for anything that has to do with rock or rock & roll issues.

My first experiences with rock & roll was not with or from American artists.

Blue

[blue]

Interesting stuff.

You know, I can think of 2-3 times when I walked away from a gig with $600.00 in my wallet for playing a little over an hour.

That's really where I would like to be all the time.

Blue

[12stringbassist]

I'd say to Blue, that if you go for the promotion to the touring circuit, you may be lucky to be able to schedule other work in your downtime from the new band. Finding something to slot into in that downtime may not be easy. Apart from that, I'd say, if you have made some contacts in that world, the thing to do is ask them if there is anything going.

Very best of luck.

I am aware of a bassist job coming up with a known UK tribute band that I would have been well suited for, but they are apparently not making the money they could, which is why the current bassist is going. Funnily enough, I turned down the opportunity to join the actual band they are a tribute to, as the money for the hired hands didn't match that of my day job at the time.

Edited October 17, 2016 by 12stringbassist

[jonunders]

Blue, I thought you had made it to the top. You're playing Skegness

[blue]

[quote name='jonunders' timestamp='1476764789' post='3156991']
Blue, I thought you had made it to the top. You're playing Skegness
[/quote]

I wish I was playing Skegness.

Not me,a band we opened for Saturday night is playing Skegness.

Blue

Edited October 18, 2016 by blue

[TimR]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1476746688' post='3156966']



I must be missing something, I was hoping to hear more comments about how other members value their playing.

I don't know how it turned into the Blue Story. That was not my intention.

Blue
[/quote]

You seemed to be asking whether you should persue touring gigs.

I thought "in Milwaukee" all the gigs were sown up, the places weren't advertised, and you would have to be invited?

In the UK the best way of getting yourself known is to do lots of dep gigs and network with people at gigs.

I think somewhere there is an intermediate step missing for you. Somehow you have to get known amongst the other bar bands local to you that play out further afield and make them aware that you're available and willing to dep for them.

Maybe even look at theatre work (if they do that sort of thing in the US and you can read.)

If you can't read then maybe that something you should be learning.

.

Edited October 18, 2016 by TimR

[lowdown]

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1476733496' post='3156828']
Not round this way - they only want Eddie Calvert tribute acts
[/quote]



He was playing James Bond themes before they were even written.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHtlZucvfmk

Edited October 18, 2016 by lowdown

[gareth]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1476651947' post='3156072']


My home would be the road, something I've always wanted.

I'm single and my kids are working adults, I could get up and leave tonight if the right opportunity presented itself.

Blue
[/quote]if you get the chance, take it

You only live once

[neilp]

[quote name='gareth' timestamp='1476800523' post='3157350']
if you get the chance, take it

You only live once
[/quote]
What he said. I work as much as I can, and my plan is to reduce my living costs to the point where I can live on my musical income. Classical, rock/pop, originals, covers, whatever. Don't care, I love it all and I'd much prefer not to have to do anything else

[Froggy]

Start sea4ching for the opportunity, and grab it with both hands when it comes Blue.
Will it be tough? Probably.
Is it a stable life? No, but you don't seem to want that anyway.
Will you regret it if you don't go for it? Almost certainly.

I don't believe you should live your life with any regrets about things you could have done. You own your home, bills are manageable, nobody depending on you financially, so stop talking about it on the Internet and go and do it.

[blue]

[quote name='mikel' timestamp='1476735700' post='3156865']


/\ This. You have made your mind up you are better than the band and music you are playing. Asking a forum, based in Britain, what they think about you doing what you want to do, in the US music business, seems a bit odd. I for one have no idea what the gig situation is in the States.
[/quote]

I'm not better than the band I'm in. I'm not better than anything.

I'm saying I feel I should be making more money and playing at the national headliners level doing 80 minutes instead of 4 hours.

I'm really interested in how other currently value themselves as a musician.

Blue

[ahpook]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1476815750' post='3157562']
I'm really interested in how other currently value themselves as a musician.
[/quote]

Value and what financial worth are different things to some.

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1476815750' post='3157562']

I'm saying I feel I should be making more money and playing at the national headliners level doing 80 minutes instead of 4 hours.[/quote]

It's good to have ambitions and goals. If you think your skill-set can propel you to the next level then you should give it a go. In the first instance you have to put yourself out there and network while protecting your current gig until such time as you have some offers in front of you.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1476815750' post='3157562']I'm really interested in how other currently value themselves as a musician.
[/quote]

As a total finger in the air exercise why not think about a 'per gig' rate of ((Your current annual living costs x 3) / 183 nights a year) and compare that to what you think might be on offer out there.

[JTUK]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1476815750' post='3157562']
I'm not better than the band I'm in. I'm not better than anything.

I'm saying I feel I should be making more money and playing at the national headliners level doing 80 minutes instead of 4 hours.

I'm really interested in how other currently value themselves as a musician.

Blue
[/quote]

The way I'm readiing this is that your goal is to play up a few leagues than your current band... otherwise your current band would be able to make that step.
So, in that respect you do have to be better than the unit you are in... you have to bring something to the party to make a new outfit pick you.

I think you should give it a shot but you have to be ready and able...
There is a reason some bands are better...!!

[Damonjames]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1476732350' post='3156805']


Well, right now my band offers consistent bar, festival and fair gigs.I know where my next gig is well into 2017. It's still below my worth IMO. I have to do it until I find something better.

I'm still not sure what your point is and a US functions band is not the sort of thing I'm looking for.

I'm talking about bands that are on the road gigging 5 -6 nights a week with international travel.

Blue
[/quote]

I'm not trying to be argumentative, and apologies for the attack of autocorrect on the previous post!!

My point i guess, is that the jobs you are after are few and far between, the guy I was referring to is a guy many would view as having "made it" with 2 signed bands and and an endorsement from a major company.

Like it or not, the industry has changed, and the top gigs for musicians are in a large portion, the same big acts that have been touring for years with the same band/crew.

I wish you all the best with your quest mate, you seem to have the personal circumstances to support the touring musician lifestyle, and have the drive to do it. Finding a way to bridge the gap between pub work and the big stuff you are after!!

A little poem springs to mind..


I bargained with Life for a penny,
And Life would pay no more,
However I begged at evening
When I counted my scanty store;

For Life is a just employer,
He gives you what you ask,
But once you have set the wages,
Why, you must bear the task.

I worked for a menial's hire,
Only to learn, dismayed,
That any wage I had asked of Life,
Life would have gladly paid!

[ivansc]

Its all about deciding if you want to play four times a month or four times a week.

Higher up the ladder pays more but generally less often.
It all evens out unless you get really lucky and hit the big time.
But of course with the few notable exceptions, then your lifespan at that level i necessarily limited by how long you can stay at the top.
So once again, it all evens out....

A mate works in a functions band and he averages 1-4 gigs a month. When touring the UK C&W club scene in a duo, I was working between four and seven nights a week with occasional lunchtime gigs. Even after expenses, it worked out that we were both in the same earning bracket - on balance I probably did a little better than he did.
So be careful what you wish for, especially if (like me) you really like gigging.

And Blue: That whole "on the road in an airplane" gig is not half as great as it is cracked up to be. And of course the down time is a killer if you are not on retainer.

Mate of mine is the long-term bass player for an international megastar and he has always said that the best part about his gig is the hours.... and the nice retainer the boss man pays him means he doesnt need another job when the act is not touring. Now THAT is a gig we can all aspire to.

Edited October 19, 2016 by ivansc

[Phil Starr]

To answer your question directly I don't think anyone here is paid what they are 'worth' for playing music. There's an excess of supply over demand. I put in 20 hours a week on bass and I get £50 in a good week.

This is more personal though. For years you've been telling us how great your band leader is and how good your slot in the band. Has that changed or has one well paid gig gone to your head? It seems that the only way to realise your dream is to leave your current band behind. Well, there's no harm in looking but have a good look first. I know nothing about the scene in the USA but from your descriptions it doesn't look too different from here. There are very few touring bands that work five nights a week. Even huge international acts rarely sell out night after night, there's usually a tour organised for a few months with gigs mainly at weekends. 20 gigs is a big tour. The tour ends and the name band go back home or into the studio until it is time for next years show, the session musicians go and look for the next job.

My wife has a saying, "don't put out your dirty underwear until you know you have clean". If you don't have an offer that gives you what you want then giving up a band where you say you are happy doesn't make an awful lot of sense.

For years you have been saying how happy you are in a band where your leader organises everything and you just turn up and do a professional job of entertaining an audience. A man has a right to change but you've never struck me as a gambler.

[Damonjames]

I agree with Mr Starr, I have read many of your posts blue, and you have always seemed comfortable in your slot.
As I mentioned earlier, the really good slots where you are on 5 nights a week for extended periods or on a retainer are few and far between. The reality for most working musicians is that you need to cast your net far and wide to make a living.

Just keep your head down and work but keep your eyes open!

[mikel]

The thing is Blue your posts concentrate on you earning more for doing less. Thats the way they read. As has been pointed out, the headliners bands are almost a closed shop. These guys have been touring with the big acts for years and are well known in the industry, be it regional or national. It is beyond difficult to break into this environment unless you bring something different or unique to the party. Most of the young guys, still on the way up, will play for nothing to get into the top bunch of musicians.

As a well respected musician once said "If you get into music to make money you will be disappointed, but If you get into music to make music you will always be happy"

Its fine people saying go for it. Go for what, and how? Its not like you can pitch up at the DSS and apply for a job as a pro musician. Its a chicken and egg situation. Ask the pro musicians how they got where they are and most will tell you "Right place at the right time" ie luck.

Edited October 19, 2016 by mikel

[Dan Dare]

I think the short answer to the question "What are you worth?" is "Whatever someone is prepared to pay you on the day". I'm very cheap on a Tuesday evening, because offers tend to be thin on the ground. On Saturdays, when I'm more likely to be able to pick and choose, I can be "worth" more. It's all down to good old market forces/supply and demand. As someone else has said, even full on pro's (I have had spells of being that) can be found playing in their local social club. A guy I work with occasionally plays (and is MD) for a very well-known outfit. Not my place to say who, but they are pretty famous. He still does the clubs, etc when he's available. He likes to play and earn, enjoys the craic and it keep his fingers in trim.

[blue]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1476817699' post='3157590']


The way I'm readiing this is that your goal is to play up a few leagues than your current band... otherwise your current band would be able to make that step.
So, in that respect you do have to be better than the unit you are in... you have to bring something to the party to make a new outfit pick you.

I think you should give it a shot but you have to be ready and able...
There is a reason some bands are better...!!
[/quote]

From what I've seen being better is not always the case. There are marginal bands out there touring at the headliner level.

I think it's more about being networked, being prepared,being in the right place at the right time and exposed to these opportunities.

Blue