nash Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 So like a lot of us I've played guitar in a band and also bass in a band. I am a bassist first. Anyway I'm leaning away from treating my bass amp setup in a similar way to guitar amp setup. By that I mean the front of house sound for a guitar is most of the time from a microphone placed in front of the cab. This was also the method for bass for a long time with maybe a DI as well. But now I find it's mostly DI. So I think what is the point of lugging around a massive valve head if no one is really going to hear it. Also I've started using my Orange OB1 more as just a poweramp now with all these PreAmp DI pedals coming out. Literally all my tone comes from my pedalboard. I'm not even sure if I make sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lw. Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Yikes - when were you last playing bass, I thought DI had been the major signal source for the PA for the last 30 years! I think it depends on the venue & the band - if the venue is small enough to take the bass amp supplying all the volume then it's still nice to have a good amp set-up. Plus there's recording, I always mic the cab for recording. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 There's a lot of fors/against being said in - [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/293804-gigging-without-a-pa/unread/"]Gigging without a PA[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nash Posted October 21, 2016 Author Share Posted October 21, 2016 I think what I'm getting at is that it's pointless having a grunty ampeg for example if it's not your tone for FOH. All my tone, amp and FOH comes from my board. Or will once I get another preamp pedal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 (edited) It depends entirely on what kinds of gigs you are doing and how good the monitoring system is. My band plays all sorts of gigs where the PA ranges from just about enough for the vocals provided that we play fairly quietly (and no foldback whatsoever) to huge rigs with individual monitor mixes for each stage position and the only time I can actually hear any sound coming from my rig (as opposed to out of the monitors) is when I'm stood right in front of it! A lot of the time, if it's a venue we've not played before, there no way of knowing what level of PA is going to be present and unfortunately experience has shown us that even if a gear list is provided ahead of the gig, what is actually supplied on the night can be something entirely different. In these circumstances there is no way I could risk not having a full rig behind me. Of course you also need to consider that for some types of music not having a big stack of amps and speakers at the back of the stage just looks wrong. Edited October 21, 2016 by BigRedX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 [quote name='nash' timestamp='1477045325' post='3159423'] [b]I think what I'm getting at is that it's pointless having a grunty ampeg for example if it's not your tone for FOH.[/b] All my tone, amp and FOH comes from my board. Or will once I get another preamp pedal. [/quote] Why wouldn't it be..? Talk to the engrs, tell them what you want. Chances are you've paid for them/hired them, they work for you. At the very least they should be working to get the best out of your set. If they can't do that, why are you using them...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_Bass Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 (edited) There's alot of ways to see this and to solve the problem depending on one's setup and tone shaping. No solution is better, you just have to find the one that suits you. If the tone is obtained by right hand playing and bass EQ and the bass rig is composed of a "transparent" amp&cab then you can use a DI box before the amp or use the amp's DI in pre. If there's a preamp pedal between bass and amp and the rig is the aforementioned "transparent" type then you can use the DI out of the preamp pedal, a DI box or the amp's DI in pre. If you use the amp's preamp to tailor the sound but have a "flat'ish" cab you can use the amp's DI in post. If your cab has colour and that is a big part of your tone you have two ways: either your tone is reproduceable by the FOH engineer on the mixer and in this case you either use a DI box or the amp's DI in pre/post depending on the engineer's POV or you have to mic the cab to get all the tone you want. Personally i wouldn't use a mic, it will pic up the drums. I use my amp's DI out, my rig is as faithfull to my bass/hands tone as possible and the rig is there only to make it sound louder without changin it. But there's allways the room to factor in so i have messed with amp's EQ to cut/boost the bass depending on the room and to remove a resonant freq. Normally i allways have the DI in post because in pubs we don't have sound engineer and that notch from the amp would also be needed in the PA but for larger events, with a hired PA and sound crew i put it in pre and let the techs do their work the way the want to. Edited October 21, 2016 by Ghost_Bass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 If in doubt... kemper the amps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nash Posted October 21, 2016 Author Share Posted October 21, 2016 [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1477048993' post='3159478'] If in doubt... kemper the amps! [/quote] I now agree with this if you're on IEM and a fairly silent stage. As far as my opinion goes, a DI from a valve head will not reproduce the sound you hear. The whole power amp changes the tone. Maybe a Torpedo would be good. I've seen lot of pro's using something like a Noble or Avalon DI and a mic on the cab. That for me is the best of both worlds on a non-silent stage. But the shows I play at the moment are just a case of pot luck. I don't pay for the FOH engineer. Some shows it's DI only, some a mic and some both. I've toyed with the idea of putting a JHS Colorbox at the end of my board chain. But I think I may use a Le Bass and see how I get along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LewisK1975 Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 (edited) I've recently made the switch to having no amp on stage and using in-ears. Last on my pedalboard is a Sansamp para driver, that, together with the mixer controls, takes care of everything necessary to get a good out front sound, and I get a controllable, comfortable mix direct to my ears. Lovely. Edited October 21, 2016 by LewisK1975 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 [quote name='LewisK1975' timestamp='1477057596' post='3159580'] I've recently made the switch to having no amp on stage and using in-ears. Last on my pedalboard is a Sansamp para driver, that, together with the mixer controls, takes care of everything necessary to get a good out front sound, and I get a controllable, comfortable mix direct to my ears. Lovely. [/quote] Glad you are enjoying it dude! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bassman7755 Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 [quote name='nash' timestamp='1477043473' post='3159405'] So like a lot of us I've played guitar in a band and also bass in a band. I am a bassist first. Anyway I'm leaning away from treating my bass amp setup in a similar way to guitar amp setup. By that I mean the front of house sound for a guitar is most of the time from a microphone placed in front of the cab. This was also the method for bass for a long time with maybe a DI as well. But now I find it's mostly DI. So I think what is the point of lugging around a massive valve head if no one is really going to hear it. Also I've started using my Orange OB1 more as just a poweramp now with all these PreAmp DI pedals coming out. Literally all my tone comes from my pedalboard. I'm not even sure if I make sense. [/quote] It makes perfect sense. Yes the absolute best tone for both bass and guitar is sometimes only achieved by utilizing a full stack approach where every part - preamp, power amp and speaker all play a role BUT the downside of this is that you are held hostage to it. If you can get to the point where you are as close as possible to this tone while still at the preamp signal level then it opens up a world of flexibility, all of a sudden you can work at any volume level with any means of sound delivery to your ears and the audience so the benefits are massive. In a world where we have brilliant amp modellers, amp samplers and drive pedals/preamps from the likes of darkglass and tech21 (and even behringer) then this should be possible for pretty much anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 I`m pretty much in the same camp as those where their tone comes from pedals/preamps rather than the amp. I`ve got it this way so that when I play gigs with provided rigs I know that FOH is going to get what I want them to, as it`s always DI`d. My amp/cab are really on-stage monitors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trueno Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 [quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1477132301' post='3160018'] I`m pretty much in the same camp as those where their tone comes from pedals/preamps rather than the amp. I`ve got it this way so that when I play gigs with provided rigs I know that FOH is going to get what I want them to, as it`s always DI`d. My amp/cab are really on-stage monitors. [/quote] I agree. I have an EBS Microbass II. It went into a 12" Markbass set flat. DI from EBS to PA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 My Helix sends an IR signal to the PA and a non IR signal to a power amp and cab. Complete control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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