Starting over - but where to start?

[radiophonic]

Apologies if this is a bit vague. I've come back to playing after a longish hiatus and everything has changed. I currently have no amp. Unless you are a beginner, shops don't stock gear you can try out any more! Class D amps exist! More than three brands of rig exist. I'm simultaneously spoilt for choice and unable to make an informed decision. I'm in need of flexible set up for practices and gigging (pub/club gigs), probably without any micing up. Ideally compact enough to fit in the back of a mini with the back seats down. Must be a head and enclosure (I'd like to be able to use my own head at practices, but don't want to lug cabs up flight of stairs every week). The band I play in aren't super loud and don't go in for very saturated guitar sounds (cutting through isn't an issue). I'm not into a hifi sound, not distorted either but definitely with a bit of grunt. I'd imagined a compact 1 x 15 cab or maybe a 2 x 10, but honestly I'm just guessing.

In the past I used a Trace Ellliot AH350 + 4 x 10 cab and later a 1 x 15 combo. I never really liked either though. Loud enough but too clinical sounding. I've also played Ashdown (again, no keen on the sound of the heads), Ampeg (great - but I've no idea about the new stuff) and Marshall (OK, but just OK).

The one thing I have liked the look of is the Orange OB1 300. The basic sound is pretty much what I'm after, but I doubt I'd ever use the gain and blend. Anything else in this sort of ballpark, but without the un-needed functionality?

Cheers.

[BigRedX]

Take a couple of days out to go to Bass Direct in Warwick and The Gallery in London, where you can try out lots of new bass amplification.

I would suggest looking at amps with valves in the pre-amp section.

[Musicman20]

I'd also look at Andertons, especially if you don't want to dive straight into boutique bass gear.

If I were to start again, and I had your requirements, I'd probably aim for a decent quality 2x12, or 1x12 (x2) and a Class-D amp such as:

TC Electronic BH-800
TC RH450/750 - Ampeg inspired
Tech 21 VT Bass head - Ampeg inspired
2nd hand Genz Benz Streamliner 900
Mesa Boogie Subway

The new Orange heads are still probably classed as light and compact compared to an old Trace!

The Orange heads will give you plenty of warmth and grit...and lots of power...(they tend to be rated well and loud).

[Lw.]

The current popular choice seems to be two 1x12" cabs - you can take one for small gigs & both for bigger ones. They're mostly light weight & pretty small box-sizes, especially compared to what you'll have used in years gone by. I chose the TKS ones because of the tone but there are plenty of other brands available; Bergantino, Vanderkley, Barefaced, even Ashdown apparently make a good one (I don't like the sound of their heads either, though their cabs have usually been fine).

I really like those Orange heads - you can get some cool sounds out of them but they're really not anywhere near as light as you can go now if that's what you're looking for. Almost everyone seems to make a lightweight head now - I have no idea how you'd choose one (I haven't bothered yet - I'm torn between wanting super light class-D & super heavy full-tube!).

[Cuzzie]

So the other thing you can do is separate you practic rig from your gig rig.
I have a head and cab that mainly stays at home unless it's for playing out obviously, and for when the wife goes out to make noise!
For practice we are in our drummers garage and practice at low volume as it's at night, kids sleeping etc. And for that I have a Hartke HD25 combo. It does the job to arrange songs and then showtime for the bigger stuff.

It's always a consideration

[FuNkShUi]

Where do you live?
Maybe a nice BC'er can offer you a go on their equipment?
The more you try, the more you'll know

[Marc S]

[quote name='Lw.' timestamp='1478254590' post='3167854']
The current popular choice seems to be two 1x12" cabs - you can take one for small gigs & both for bigger ones. They're mostly light weight & pretty small box-sizes, especially compared to what you'll have used in years gone by. I chose the TKS ones because of the tone but there are plenty of other brands available; Bergantino, Vanderkley, Barefaced, even Ashdown apparently make a good one......
[/quote]
Yep, plenty of choice of lightweight cabs out there these days. Barefaced, Markbass, Epifani
I use a couple of Epifani 1x10's, also, love my Markbass 2x10 traveller
Perhaps a rig consisting of a 1x12 and a 1x10? Don't be fooled by smaller speaker sizes, and thinking they won't cope...
I had a 1x15 and it wasn't capable of handling any more power than some 1x10's. Also, it tended to sound very "boomy" and ill-defined at the bottom end, whereas some 1x12's and 1x10's can sound more well defined, focussed and punchy

Also don't forget cabs like the Phil Jones 4x5 Piranha cabs. I had 2 of those, and boy did they sound great, despite the speakers only being 5". They were a tad heavy mind you, but now they do a lightweight version of those cabs too...

[quote name='FuNkShUi' timestamp='1478255057' post='3167870']
Where do you live?
Maybe a nice BC'er can offer you a go on their equipment?
The more you try, the more you'll know
[/quote]

Can't see what area you live in, but honestly, most BC'ers seem decent folk to me. If you were anywhere near FuNkShUi and myself in South Wales, you'd be welcome to pop in for a cuppa at mine, and have a listen to some amp heads & cabs.... just bring some nice biscuits! Plus, is there a bass bash anywhere near you? As BC'ers usually turn up with basses and amp gear for others to try out...

Any BC'ers playing any gigs near you? Check that, and pop along to listen to their gear in a live situation - and support their band & venue to boot.

Don't worry about being out of the game a few years. Yes, things have changed, but IMHO, things have changed mainly for the better. There's lots of choice out there re basses. Cheaper end instruments are so well made now eg. the Squier Classic Vibe range. And amps and cabs are so much lighter weight than they used to be.

I started playing in the early 80's and basses were expensive. There was quite some cheap tat out there too. And amps were very hefty. I stopped playing for over 20 years (nearly 25 in fact) and boy, things had changed - but look on it as an exciting journey, where you can learn a lot too.

Most of all, good luck in your quest. And post your location in your info - so others will know when to invite you to a gig or bass bash

[bertbass]

I'd suggest a Fender Rumble. I ended up with a Rumble 500 head after my GB Streamliner 800 died and I have to say I'm mightily impressed, great sound, loud and incredibly light.

[Phil Starr]

Yep good idea to tell us where you are, there are shops which still demo and people who will share their expertise and give a go on their rigs.

Firstly always go for the sound, no try, no buy. We all have different tastes and play different styles of music.

I'd go lightweight unless you are looking to do this on the cheap. People generally are replacing their old heavy gear and the used prices for big heavy cabs and amps has fallen. Certainly don't buy heavyweight gear new as it will lose value the moment you swipe the credit card.

I'd say go for a couple of 1x12" cabs as your starting point. A single 12 so long as you aren't looking at bargain basement will keep up with a drummer, so your practice rig is a single speaker and your amp. then if you are playing at a bigger venue you can take the second speaker, that should take you louder than the drums so if you play stadiums then they'd be miked up and so would you. A single 12 is usually a one handed carry and probably the smallest cab so will fit easily into your mini. Slightly larger a 1x15 or 2x10 will also be a good basis for a modular two cab flexible rig if size and weight are not a problem. 1x12's are pretty popular now so you have a wide range to choose from and should be able to find ones whose sound you like.

I reckon to go for a lightweight amp with about 300W, preferably into 8ohms unless you don't mind the extra weight. I went for the Little Mark Tube but there are loads to choose from and we all have our favourites.

The biggest thing though is budget, I've essentially recommended a £1000 rig if you bought new. You'd better tell us what you want to spend before we ask you to remortgage

Edited November 4, 2016 by Phil Starr

[radiophonic]

Thanks for all the replies. I've updated my profile for location (Nottingham). I'm not too bothered about a heavy-ish head, it's more the thought of lugging big cabs up flights of stairs. I figured probably spending a few hundred on a head, use the cabs in the practice room for now (they are OK - definitely a big improvement on what I put up with in the late 80s) then get a cab as soon as I need it for gigging, probably early next year. I see a lot of those Mark Bass amps for sale but I have no idea about them and I've never heard one used in anger. I must admit that I'd never considered a 12" speaker - nobody used them for bass in the 80s, it was all 15 or 10. Again, I'd need to hear one at volume.

[chris_b]

Go for separates. They are easier to upgrade, and you might be doing a lot of that while you find your feet.

You don't need big cabs for a big sound any more. 15's are no longer required in order to handle low bass frequencies. There are 10's these days that produce more volume and tone than most 15's did back in the day.

Checkout Hartke, Peavey, GK, Aguilar and Markbass heads. Watts are cheap so I'd be looking at 500 watt versions. To start with I'd also be looking in the classifieds.

IMO there is a lot of great gear at good prices these days, and most is miles better than the stuff I was looking at even 20 years ago.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='radiophonic' timestamp='1478260473' post='3167945']
Thanks for all the replies. I've updated my profile for location (Nottingham). I'm not too bothered about a heavy-ish head, it's more the thought of lugging big cabs up flights of stairs. I figured probably spending a few hundred on a head, use the cabs in the practice room for now (they are OK - definitely a big improvement on what I put up with in the late 80s) then get a cab as soon as I need it for gigging, probably early next year. I see a lot of those Mark Bass amps for sale but I have no idea about them and I've never heard one used in anger. I must admit that I'd never considered a 12" speaker - nobody used them for bass in the 80s, it was all 15 or 10. Again, I'd need to hear one at volume.
[/quote]

IMO the size of the speaker cone is largely irrelevant these days. I wouldn't even bother with it as specification when choosing a cab. Go instead for the sound and how portable you need it to be.

[karlfer]

Definitely seperates as folk have suggested.
Probably a head and 2 x 112's.

Decide what sound and features you require.
Do your research (Basschat really is an excellent resource for this).

Then buy used from here, preferably from some of the guys with some decent feedback.

If you buy decent gear used, you won't lose massive amounts if it doesn't work out live for you.
Gear is VERY different in shop/bedroom/rehearsal room/ Ferret and Hat/O2.

Welcome back, good luck, enjoy the journey

[Marc S]

[quote name='karlfer' timestamp='1478267835' post='3168046']
Definitely seperates as folk have suggested.
Probably a head and 2 x 112's.

Decide what sound and features you require.
Do your research (Basschat really is an excellent resource for this).

Then buy used from here, preferably from some of the guys with some decent feedback.

If you buy decent gear used, you won't lose massive amounts if it doesn't work out live for you.
Gear is VERY different in shop/bedroom/rehearsal room/ Ferret and Hat/O2.

Welcome back, good luck, enjoy the journey
[/quote]

I meant to say, of course, the marketplace on here is very good for second hand gear
And you'll get more for your money buying used. A new head, say TC Electronic 550W and a Markbass 1x12 would be a good start
Then add a further (used) cab at some later date - check out what other BC'ers say about each cab, it's merits and weak points
And as others have said, buying components makes it easier to change or upgrade

[radiophonic]

Well I took the advice of some above and went out to BassDirect at lunchtime - turns out it's only 20 minutes up the road. Bonus. Except... not. It's a very long time since I've patronised that badly by anybody who wasn't an estate agent. I certainly didn't feel welcome or even comfortable playing in there. Not only did the sales person have no interest in letting me hear the gear I went there for, but he'd already decided what I needed, without taking any time to ask what kind of music I played, what kind of gear I had played before, what I liked or disliked, how loud we play, what size room I'm likely to be in or anything at all really. If I'd had the opportunity to compare, I may well have reached the same conclusion and dug in for the extra few hundred. Having proved his own opinion right, he simply walked off and left me to leave. Which I duly did, none the wiser and still amp-less.

[Lozz196]

There is a thread on here about Bass Direct where it seems more than a few have experienced similar. I might add I didn`t when I went there, but that`s only because I don`t think they even noticed me in there - I`m only 6ft/13stone, so not that easy to see apparently.

[Cuzzie]

Second that on buying second hand gear on here, even on Talkbass I have got stuff sent over from across the pond and took a gamble.
I personally have good experiences via eBay and gumtree. A guy I have bought from on eBay has become a friend and we stay in touch.
I have found it interesting selling on places like these as you can meet some really interesting folk.

Hartke cabs were listed above, my input on them is they are a good quality, I had a 410 HyDrive which was solid, heavy-ish and well made with a good sound. The sound you get will be crisper as they are part paper and part aluminium cones.

It can be a minefield as essentially there is no right or wrong answer to this, it's what fits in with your ears and budget.
It is great fun though!

[Cuzzie]

@Lozz196 only 13 stone?!???

Is that dripping wet and wearing a bass and carrying all your gear?

I though bass players as well as being the most handsome had to be the heaviest, or am I eating for Xmas early....

[Lw.]

Ha - that is a classic Bass Direct story!

[radiophonic]

[quote name='Lw.' timestamp='1478618090' post='3170326']
Ha - that is a classic Bass Direct story!
[/quote]

I wasn't aware they had a back story. I despair sometimes.

[Lw.]

Yes it's in the other thread but as you've discovered, quite easy to experience first hand. I wasn't laughing at you, it's just typical Bass Direct! Shame because they do generally know what they're talking about & stock some nice stuff, it's just the delivery that is often off.

[Dan Dare]

Lots of sensible advice here, the best being to go to a proper shop and try plenty of options. Don't go on a Saturday when they're under pressure if you want a lengthy session or the owner's undivided. There are plenty of shops which stock kit to try, but you may have to travel. Bass Direct and Andertons, as suggested, both excellent (BD has more by way of specialist kit). Take your time and don't be swayed by others' opinions, reviews, etc. Try to take the instrument you use with you - even different examples of the same model can vary. Your ears/preferences are what matter.

[radiophonic]

[quote name='Dan Dare' timestamp='1478623603' post='3170392']
Your ears/preferences are what matter.
[/quote]

This is key to me. I'm in two bands at the moment. I play mostly fretless in one, with tight precise drum sound, acoustic guitar, piano and not much distortion on the electric guitar. Here I need a clean and clear sound. The other band has two incredibly powerful female singers, fiddle, organ, furious hand percussion (no kit) and a very saturated heavy guitar sound. They were very specific about wanting 'rock' bass - and that means grit. A Stingray and a slightly overdriven preamp got the thumbs up. The BassDirect pitch was that if you need to adjust your tone on the amp away from flat, you have the wrong bass. The sound I was hearing from a MarkBass 2 x 12 setup was extremely HiFi - like plugging straight into a desk. This is not what I had in mind at all. I want to preserve the character of the bass, but most of the amps I've liked in the past have definitely coloured the sound in some pleasing way. The best live sound I've ever had (for my taste) was with Ampeg - in no way a neutral sound - and the biggest surprise was how much impact an old PortaFlex could have. It was a small cellar bar, but I wasn't mic-ed up. The amp's owner - who was standing right at the back of the room for the whole show - had never heard it from the audience's viewpoint commented after the show on how clear and full it had sounded (he'd been going through a bit of buyers remorse, thinking he should have got something bigger). I could hear - and feel - every note too.

This may be heretical, but I think that the trend for ultra compact gear has parallels in the HiFi world. The principal design consideration for domestic loudspeakers is footprint, the the sound is engineered to that constraint. People don't want big boxes in their homes. OTOH, I still use huge 1970s Tannoy studio monitors with 15" coaxial drivers, weighing 50 Kg each. I understand why not everyone wants to lug an SVT around, but I'm pretty sure that even a Mini can transport a 15 and 2 x 10. I'm looking at Hartke gear as a probable route (I used it once in the past and it did the job fine). Single 2 x 10 cab for practice room and add a 15 for live. It won't break the bank either.

Edited November 9, 2016 by radiophonic

[Dan Dare]

Nowt wrong with Hartke and versatile kit. 2x10 plus 1x15 a nice combo. Until I went Phil Jones crazy, that's what I used. Worth seeing if you prefer the sound of all 10s - i.e.two 2x10s - though.

[alexclaber]

[quote name='radiophonic' timestamp='1478680527' post='3170785']...if you need to adjust your tone on the amp away from flat, you have the wrong bass.[/quote]

If that was true then no-one would bother putting tone controls on amps! Mind you, it's a good way to encourage people to buy more basses...