Joxotic5 Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Hi all I haven't posted here much before but have been an avid post reader and have bought some great gear from some of you before . I'm looking for any advice re singing vocal harmonies and being able to hear yourself at gigs and full band rehearsals. I'm in a 4 piece covers band and about a month ago I agreed to having a go at singing vocal harmony backing vocals along with our guitarist (male) and main vocalist (female). Their old bassist sang and they want to get back to having 3 part harmonies. I've not sung in a band before but have been getting on ok at acoustic rehearsals, the guitarist gives me a harmony line and I've recorded ourselves singing so that I can practice at home too. I've been getting more confident the more we practice but the problem I'm having is hearing myself when we rehearse as a full band, I cant seem to pick my vocal line out of the pa speakers. At rehearsal we dont use monitors, just the main pa speakers, I can hear the other two fine but not my own voice. Everyone else says they can hear me though, do you think this is just an experience thing and it will get easier over time? The other two in the band have been singing for years. Also I cant hear my voice in my head to help pitch my notes as the overall volume of the band is quite loud. I had my first go at singing at a gig last weekend and again I couldn't hear myself. We had one monitor in front of the main vocalist to share, also the guitarist placed the pa speaker in line with me so that I would get some side spill of the vocals. I felt it was pot luck whether I was hitting the right notes though and didn't really enjoy the gig. Afterwards friends said they could hear me and my vocals were fine though. I've said to the band that I'd like to get myself a small monitor to help hear myself but the guitarist seems very against it, he said he's worried about adding extra volume to the stage volume. Do you think this is reasonable? Do any of you have a seperate monitor for yourself? I've been looking at small ones as we never have much room for gear, even the ones that can attach to mic stands. Any advice would be great, whether about monitors or how to practice hearing my own vocal lines. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mep Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 We have one monitor at gigs which is ok. Obviously the singer is louder.I understand you predicament but not sure how to solve it. I don't want to be too loud in the monitor as that actually puts me off! Once you have got the hang of singing you'd be surprised at what you can do even if you can't hear yourself too much. If you need your own monitor with your own mix then why not. If it's mixed with just vocals and directed at you then maybe it e will be ok. You could probably pick up a smallish powered monitor cheaply enough and give it a go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trueno Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Try an earplug in one ear, or maybe two earplugs if you use them anyway... finger in ear folk style. Had trouble hearing myself when I played sax and the earplug worked... sort of. Worth a try. Your guitarist doesn't want to add a monitor as he doesn't want too much volume on stage? Maybe he should turn down and you get your monitor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrenochrome Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 This is a very common situation. For most types of covers bands good vocals (including backing vox) can be the difference from scratching around on the circuit to being able to pick the better pub gigs, getting the bigger bike rally gigs, club gigs etc, so you are right to prioritise vocals. Having said that it is also common to be surprised that you can't hear yourself as loudly and clearly as you'd like. I find ear plugs really help with this and I won't do any electric gigs or rehearsals without them. I would generally suggest that a small vocal monitor on stage is not overkill at all and will help share the load. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joxotic5 Posted November 22, 2016 Author Share Posted November 22, 2016 Thanks everyone, will definitely try the earplug tip, I should wear them anyway really. Good to know it's a common problem and not just me, will persevere. Might just get myself a small monitor anyway and see how it goes, might be fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtcat Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 How about a cheap in ear monitor set up. I just posted up my sub £100 in ear set up in the thread in this forum. Has worked a treat for me. I can hear everything including my own vocals beautifully and the whole little rig fits in the front pocket of my bass gig bag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertbass Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 It's normal to not hear yourself well in the monitors at first against others singing, but it's something you get used to over time. your own monitor is a must and having all the vocals in your monitor helps you balance your voice against the others for a good balance and again it's some thing that only comes with time and experience. Don't panic or give up just persevere, you'll get there in the end, I promise! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joxotic5 Posted November 24, 2016 Author Share Posted November 24, 2016 Thanks I'm not giving up, I'm enjoying giving it a go, just been finding it frustrating not being able to hear myself - have decided to get myself a little monitor, been looking at the behringer b205d as it seems to have great reviews, will keep keeping on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom skool Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 +1 on the ear plug tip. I hated it to begin with but soon got used to the sound. I'm so glad I always did some backing vox otherwise I'd be deaf in both ears now! After a while muscle memory will also help and the feel of the notes your aiming for will become familiar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casapete Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 Sounds to me like you need the monitor. With a small one such as the Behringer you mention ( a copy of the Mackie SRM150) you have the option of running just your mike in and then out of it to the main mixer. By doing this you can add just enough of your voice into what you hear from the PA. This may turn out to be not that much to interfere with stage levels drastically, but can make all the difference to you. Also they are quite directional, so experiment with where you place it. This arrangement is also useful when you don't have the facilities for lots of monitor mixes ( auxiliary sends) on your mixer. In my pub band I use a JBL Eon 10 powered speaker in the same way, and can't now believe how I managed without it. Hope you get things sorted :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joxotic5 Posted December 2, 2016 Author Share Posted December 2, 2016 Thanks everyone for the replies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigjas Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 I use the Behringer B205D for gigging and its great. Have used it nearly every weekend for the last 2 and a half years and its still going strong. We use an active PA system so I just take a lead from the back of one of the PA speakers and in to the monitor. That way I can hear what the audience can hear and pitch my backing vocals accordingly. Its plenty loud enough in a pub/small club setting. Jas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrevorR Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 (edited) I was searching for these today... https://www.studiospares.com/Headphones-and-Speakers/Studio-Monitors/Yamaha-MS101-III-Powered-Speaker-10W_274120.htm?CAWELAID=120173110000083270&CAGPSPN=pla&CAAGID=35439278615&CATCI=pla-47420525768&gclid=CjwKEAiAj7TCBRCp2Z22ue-zrj4SJACG7SBE_EPtK4m_P37v1dlYIx9elcqUIHLh5_XL6nJDdVuP6xoCl8_w_wcB And it put me in mind of your thread, Joxotic5. Did you ever get a resolution? Used these before for personal monitoring. Given how directional they are and only 10W or so, it would be hard for the guitar player to argue that it'll raise the stage volume that much. But it might give you the extra vocal clarity you need... they can mount on a mic stand for ease... Edited December 11, 2016 by TrevorR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Starr Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 I have the same problem, most of us do I suspect. We all want to be just a little louder than everyone else. Fortunately the laws of physics are on our side here. A small speaker close to us can be much louder than a bigger one further away, I suppose in ears are the most extreme version of that but a personal monitor like the B205D does the job nicely too. The trick of doing it without anyone else hearing is to get it as close to your ears as possible. As a bassist you'll usually be at one side so I just put it on the outside pointing straight at my ears. I've used the Behringer, I tried it against the Mackie and there was little difference I found, since then I've moved on to use the TC voicesolo which sounds better and is light enough to clip to your mic stand. Where the Behringer scores though is that the voicesolo is more prone to feedback simply because it has more frequencies than the Behringer. If you play at very high stage levels the Behringer works well. Studiospares do a Behringer clone which is even cheaper, I've not tried it but it is a clone of a clone and may be as similar to the B205 as it is to the Mackie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybass 70 Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 Our drummer has a TC helicon monitor, the sound quality for such a small unit is incredible, your in charge of effects too http://www.tc-helicon.com/en/products/voicesolo-fx150/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joxotic5 Posted December 15, 2016 Author Share Posted December 15, 2016 I'm definitely going to get one of these monitors and give it a go, we haven't got a full band rehearsal until middle of january now so will get christmas out of the way and then order one in the new year. There seems to be a few clones of the Behringer/Mackie ones out there, had a look at the Studiospares one which is the cheapest, there's also a Studiomaster one for £139.99 and now Gear4music have brought out their own version (subzero) for £129.99. Just need to decide which one to go for! Will probably be the behringer because of the great reviews and recommendations. The tc helicon one looks great but it maybe does more than I need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 I reckon these are good value for money... https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00D7FIW7I/ref=pe_1963591_136811311_em_1p_0_ti We have two... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Starr Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1485217754' post='3222298'] I reckon these are good value for money... [url="https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00D7FIW7I/ref=pe_1963591_136811311_em_1p_0_ti"]https://www.amazon.c...1311_em_1p_0_ti[/url] We have two... [/quote] They are good, and there are other good floor monitors. I've re read the op though and there is some resistance in the band to upping the on stage volume which is why I think we've all homed in on personal monitors, because you have them close to you aren't likely to be loud enough for the rest of the band to hear. It might be worth talking to the rest of the band about monitoring though if they have the money for each of them to have their own floor monitor or IEM's as that sort of system needs planning as a whole band ideally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 £300 and 20Kg? You're 'avin' a giraffe. Think I'll stick to my Wharfdale WPM-1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 (edited) [quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1485256793' post='3222468'] £300 and 20Kg? You're 'avin' a giraffe. Think I'll stick to my Wharfdale WPM-1. [/quote] Your ickle monitor wouldnt be heard over our percussionists shakers mate,let alone the rest of us 😃 Edited January 24, 2017 by 51m0n Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1485300060' post='3223022'] Your ickle monitor wouldnt be heard over our percussionists shakers mate,let alone the rest of us [/quote] Then you're playing too loud! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1485305110' post='3223046'] Then you're playing too loud! [/quote] Nah mate, the funk will out, can't hold back the funk it just oozes everywhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joxotic5 Posted January 25, 2017 Author Share Posted January 25, 2017 Well I went for the behringer b205d and its working well for me, much more confident with the backing vocals now I can hear myself better. Now everyone else in the band wants their own one too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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