stingrayPete1977 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 I couldn't hear what the Beatles actually played either, could have been terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikel Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1483562269' post='3208332'] I couldn't hear what the Beatles actually played either, could have been terrible. [/quote] Watch the new movie mate and you can, you think I am making this up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikel Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1483562126' post='3208331'] [b]Ridiculous[/b]. If you are singing by muscle memory, you are requiring everybody and the accompanying instruments to be exactly in tune - the law of averages will mean that this is completely unlikely. You need to listen with your ears and adjust appropriately to be in tune with those around you. [/quote] Thanks for that measured response. Back in the 60s and 70s most semi pro bands had no monitors, and poor PA systems compared to now. There was nothing special about putting out decent vocals without monitors, it was the norm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 [quote name='mikel' timestamp='1483568090' post='3208421'] Thanks for that measured response. Back in the 60s and 70s most semi pro bands had no monitors, and poor PA systems compared to now. There was nothing special about putting out decent vocals without monitors, it was the norm. [/quote] I'm not doubting that - but comparing your average gig for "semi pro" bands in the 60s and 70s to that of a "pro" band with a modern PA rig, in a far less than ideal acoustic environment, with far higher spls, is an equally ridiculous comparison for you to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spencer.b Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 [quote name='mikel' timestamp='1483568090' post='3208421'] Thanks for that measured response. Back in the 60s and 70s most semi pro bands had no monitors, and poor PA systems compared to now. There was nothing special about putting out decent vocals without monitors, it was the norm. [/quote] But she couldn't hear the track , Mariah's from a gospel background I'm sure she can belt it out but if you can't hear the track what can you do, why all the hate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roonjuice Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Just playing devils here guys, but i counted at least 6 monitors. (the dancers would need them). To think that the monitor engineer wouldn't have vocals routed to the wedges in case of IEM failure would be absurd! [attachment=235277:mariah.jpg] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 [quote name='spencer.b' timestamp='1483570788' post='3208444'] But she couldn't hear the track , Mariah's from a gospel background I'm sure she can belt it out but if you can't hear the track what can you do, why all the hate [/quote] He has a boner for the Beatles it would seem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) [quote name='roonjuice' timestamp='1483571614' post='3208452'] Just playing devils here guys, but i counted at least 6 monitors. (the dancers would need them). To think that the monitor engineer wouldn't have vocals routed to the wedges in case of IEM failure would be absurd! [attachment=235277:mariah.jpg] [/quote] This is true - who knows if the vocal was coming out of there or not. If the monitor engineer hasn't got the IEM situ under control (misrouted vocal mic maybe - maybe the channels were changed from the rehearsal?), it's a valid hypothesis that the wedge monitors could be exhibiting the same lack of vocal. Again, if the IEMs were the only source for MC to use, which could be a fair assumption given the environment she was singing in, she would still be fked. Edited January 4, 2017 by EBS_freak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) After reading this - [url="http://ew.com/tv/2017/01/02/mariah-carey-nye-what-really-happened/"]http://ew.com/tv/201...eally-happened/[/url] It does suggest that the monitor engineer/RF technician (radio) are defo to blame. With all the TV crews and the like in the area, it wouldn't surprise me if it was damn near impossible to get a reliable RF stood up for even two channels (the ears and the mic - let alone what other RF was in use). Without having a RF scan for that area at that time, we will never know for sure... but I would wager that the environment was pretty savage. If it's a case that the packs where changed over (and not rerouted), I would wager that they were transmitting on the wrong frequencies... Edited January 4, 2017 by EBS_freak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roonjuice Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 All very true, and again only playing devils, but rf licenses for frequencies in NYC must be arranged and paid for in advance. We shall never know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) [quote name='roonjuice' timestamp='1483572954' post='3208470'] All very true, and again only playing devils, but rf licenses for frequencies in NYC [b]should[/b] be arranged and paid for in advance. We shall never know! [/quote] ^ Even with all the licenses, you can't ignore stray RF that is beyond your control. Of course, I'm not saying this happened... just trying to say what *could* have happened... and why Mariah doesn't deserve the panning that she seems to be unjustifiably getting. Hell, I'm not even particularly a Mariah fan... but theres too many numbskulls with no idea about the technicalities of such a show to judge her on that performance. It's clear that her performance is dogged with technical issues, not her ability to sing or not. Edited January 4, 2017 by EBS_freak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timhiggins Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1483573255' post='3208471'] ^ Even with all the licenses, you can't ignore stray RF that is beyond your control. Of course, I'm not saying this happened... just trying to say what *could* have happened... and why Mariah doesn't deserve the panning that she seems to be unjustifiably getting. Hell, I'm not even particularly a Mariah fan... but theres too many numbskulls with no idea about the technicalities of such a show to judge her on that performance. It's clear that her performance is dogged with technical issues, not her ability to sing or not. [/quote] Bloody experts coming on here with informed logical hypothesis and technical knowledge ruining a perfectly good witch hunt ....i'm getting deja vu !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1483573255' post='3208471'] ^ Even with all the licenses, you can't ignore stray RF that is beyond your control. Of course, I'm not saying this happened... just trying to say what *could* have happened... and why Mariah doesn't deserve the panning that she seems to be unjustifiably getting. Hell, I'm not even particularly a Mariah fan... but theres too many numbskulls with no idea about the technicalities of such a show to judge her on that performance. It's clear that her performance is dogged with technical issues, not her ability to sing or not. [/quote] I feel sympathy for her that her ears failed - that's a nightmare, and if it was only that, I'm sure Joe Public would be understanding. But...miming to the high bits? So long, sympathy. Only her & her management are to blame for getting her into that position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1483574385' post='3208479'] I feel sympathy for her that her ears failed - that's a nightmare, and if it was only that, I'm sure Joe Public would be understanding. But...miming to the high bits? So long, sympathy. Only her & her management are to blame for getting her into that position. [/quote] For sure - miming is nothing new - that's kinda expected by any pop act nowadays, right or wrong. Madonna, Beyonce, Britney or <insert name>, they've all been caught doing it. Most of the time they get away with it. Even when they don't it's yesterday's news. What you have to remember, is that outside of the studio, these guys are primarily entertainers as opposed to singers... so it's as much about the clothes, the dancing, the stage, the lights... the singing is almost last on the list! (until it goes wrong that is!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1483574796' post='3208480'] For sure - miming is nothing new - that's kinda expected by any pop act nowadays, right or wrong. Madonna, Beyonce, Britney or <insert name>, they've all been caught doing it. Most of the time they get away with it. Even when they don't it's yesterday's news. What you have to remember, is that outside of the studio, these guys are primarily entertainers as opposed to singers... so it's as much about the clothes, the dancing, the stage, the lights... the singing is almost last on the list! (until it goes wrong that is!) [/quote] Absolutely - I'm not sure I agree with the 'yesterday's news' bit, though. Right now, I doubt that Ms. Carey would, either :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 (edited) Ha! Yeah, it'll settle down soon for sure. I don't think her bank balance (and soon to be billionaire James Packer's wife) will be worrying too much, regardless. Edited January 5, 2017 by EBS_freak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huge Hands Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1483574796' post='3208480'] For sure - miming is nothing new - that's kinda expected by any pop act nowadays, right or wrong. Madonna, Beyonce, Britney or <insert name>, they've all been caught doing it. Most of the time they get away with it. Even when they don't it's yesterday's news. What you have to remember, is that outside of the studio, these guys are primarily entertainers as opposed to singers... so it's as much about the clothes, the dancing, the stage, the lights... the singing is almost last on the list! (until it goes wrong that is!) [/quote] I agree again. In my experience of doing sound for new pop "showcases" - mics are often live for them to go "Whoop whoop, how ya doin!", but the vocals are often fully tracked on disc, especially when they are doing crazy dance routines that wreck the mics and knacker them out. The skill of the engineer is to be able to ride it and anticipate them going off script when they suddenly want to shout something! I must admit I would prefer Mariah did it all live and admit that it is a bit of a con, but I can fully see why they do it in that awful outdoor environment with no soundcheck (reportedly) and a load of press (and forum experts) just waiting for her to slip up so they can call her a "has been". Oh, and EBS-Freak - I thought I read Mr Packer had sent her packing (badum-tish) so she might not be so comforted after all..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huge Hands Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 [quote name='mikel' timestamp='1483561547' post='3208320'] Well the Beatles managed when they couldnt even hear there instruments, and had no monitors, but there again, they had talent. [/quote] I remember watching a documentary with Paul McCartney and Ringo saying that they gave up the road after Shea stadium because they couldn't hear themselves over the crowd and it was turning them (and I quote) into "sh*tty musicians". If you don't believe me I think it was a South Bank special on Sergeant Pepper around the time Macca was 50. It also showed the clip of John horsing around on the keyboard at Shea, playing it with his elbow and shrugging, the inference being that no one could hear him anyway. Even the greats struggled, apparently..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDaddy Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1483573255' post='3208471'] ^ ... but theres too many numbskulls with no idea about the technicalities of such a show to judge her on that performance. It's clear that her performance is dogged with technical issues, not her ability to sing or not. [/quote] numbskull here! No idea about the technicalities, but an educated guess concerning the money and companies involved would suggest the people involved are professionals at the top of their game, performer included, who would have planned; rehearsed; dress rehearsed; and sorted out any problems prior to going live? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 [quote name='MacDaddy' timestamp='1483611816' post='3208619'] numbskull here! No idea about the technicalities, but an educated guess concerning the money and companies involved would suggest the people involved are professionals at the top of their game, performer included, who would have planned; rehearsed; dress rehearsed; and sorted out any problems prior to going live? [/quote] The suggestion is that she complained her ears weren't working just before going live, but she was assured all would be OK. That's only her side of the story, mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 [quote name='Huge Hands' timestamp='1483607898' post='3208570'] Oh, and EBS-Freak - I thought I read Mr Packer had sent her packing (badum-tish) so she might not be so comforted after all..... [/quote] It would appear you are right - I don't tend to keep up on Mariah activity! Although interestingly enough, I see that she gets to keep the $10million diamond ring and is looking for a $50million settlement agreement as she had to uproot to LA for him or something... So maybe there is still a bit of money in it for the old gal yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 (edited) [quote name='MacDaddy' timestamp='1483611816' post='3208619'] numbskull here! No idea about the technicalities, but an educated guess concerning the money and companies involved would suggest the people involved are professionals at the top of their game, performer included, who would have planned; rehearsed; dress rehearsed; and sorted out any problems prior to going live? [/quote] NASA are professionals at the top of their game... but they still lost shuttles. Some times, sh1t just happens... but I am guessing there are a few engineers that are going to find it difficult finding work for a while. Mind you, having said that, I read last night that everybody involved had to sign NDAs (probably spurred on by the monitor recording leak she had) prior to work on the performance... so perhaps that may work in their favour. Edited January 5, 2017 by EBS_freak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1483612229' post='3208621'] The suggestion is that she complained her ears weren't working just before going live, but she was assured all would be OK. That's only her side of the story, mind. [/quote] Until somebody in the audience with a radio pack that was recording the IEM feed releases the recorded audio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDaddy Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 (edited) [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1483616127' post='3208649'] NASA are professionals at the top of their game... [/quote] not always [url="https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=NASA+staff+scandal&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b&gfe_rd=cr&ei=jTFuWIziD87O8gfDl7e4Aw#q=nasa+staff+mistakes"]https://www.google.c...+staff+mistakes[/url] and excuse me for being obvious, but putting on a gig is not rocket science! Edited January 5, 2017 by MacDaddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hutton Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 I don't have the technical knowledge to comment on this but I was thinking that if Mariah Carey could have performed she would have as she has been doing just that for a long time now. The fact that she had to abort the performance would suggest to me that things were well out of her control. She would surely know that there would be no point in continuing and producing a performance that she would later regret. An unfortunate set of circumstances here which led to her doing the only sensible thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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