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Pub Gigs, where is it all going?


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#31 TimR

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 10:01 AM

There's a lot of laziness within musicians and a surprising lack of imagination.

How many of us have heard the 'but we don't have keyboards/drum machine/strings/brass so we can't play that song'?

Complete lack of imagination.

I played on Boxing Night at our local in our annual jam session. It was rammed with people of all ages and musicians of all ages played.

It's a lot easier to play three chord guitar band tunes from the 60s and 70s than it is to play anything from to 80s-00s. (And you'd have to pay me an awful lot of money to play Oasis!)

The originals circuit is still full of 17 yo in bands seeking fame.

.

Edited by TimR, 04 January 2017 - 10:03 AM.

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#32 Happy Jack

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 11:15 AM

View PostTimR, on 04 January 2017 - 10:01 AM, said:


It's a lot easier to play three chord guitar band tunes from the 60s and 70s than it is to play anything from to 80s-00s.

.

That's because so much of the "music" of the 80s-00s was either pressing the occasional button on a pre-programmed sequencer or simple re-treads of great original music from the 60s and 70s.

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#33 TimR

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 11:24 AM

View PostHappy Jack, on 04 January 2017 - 11:15 AM, said:



That's because so much of the "music" of the 80s-00s was either pressing the occasional button on a pre-programmed sequencer or simple re-treads of great original music from the 60s and 70s.

Next?

If it has a melody and lyric then it can be played on guitar.
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#34 Happy Jack

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 11:26 AM

That don't make it good.

Just playable.
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#35 wateroftyne

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 11:31 AM

View PostHappy Jack, on 04 January 2017 - 11:26 AM, said:

That don't make it good.

Just playable.

One of the covers bands I'm in does newer, dance-y stuff - most of which I'd never heard 'cos I live under a crusty rock - by Avicii, One Republic, etc with guitars bass and drums, and it goes down very well, and it's good fun to play.
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#36 radiophonic

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 01:01 PM

View PostHappy Jack, on 04 January 2017 - 11:15 AM, said:

That's because so much of the "music" of the 80s-00s was either pressing the occasional button on a pre-programmed sequencer or simple re-treads of great original music from the 60s and 70s.

Next?

That's easily the most depressing and wildly inaccurate point of view I've seen since joining this forum. There was (and always is) plenty of great playing on rock and pop records and just as much dreck to accompany it. Please don't let this be a 'music stopped in 1979' forum. There are enough of those in the HiFi world.
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#37 phil.c60

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 01:15 PM

Well, I've just started rehearsing with a covers band, and am quite enjoying playing Gary Numan's "Cars". The Cure's "A Forest", the Vapors "Turning Japanese, the Jam's "Start" and that's just off the top of my head. I'm sure they are all as passe to you covers band chaps as "Mustang Sally", but it makes a nice change from my blues band. Although I really enjoy that too.

#38 radiophonic

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 01:16 PM

View PostJacqueslemac, on 03 January 2017 - 04:33 PM, said:

Back in the 1980s in Norwich (when I used to be out drinking with my mates fairly often) I don't remember ever seeing a live band in a pub. If we wanted music we paid to go into a "proper" music venue.

Perhaps there were plenty of pubs with live bands, but I must have missed them all.

Nowadays there are plenty of pubs putting on gigs. Most of them do seem to be covers bands with a good half of their set exactly the same as every other band.

Maybe there was a peak in live music somewhere in the last 20-odd years and it's declined since then, but the scene seems far more vibrant than it was in my youth.

Seriously? I grew up in Norwich and started going out drinking in the 80s. Norwich had an extremely vibrant music scene then. The 'Venue Campaign' (85 - 87 approx) led to a huge upswing in pub gigs - with bands trying to meet the council's fundraising threshold for financing a dedicated city center music venue (what became the Waterfront). I can recall ton of pub based stuff in the Mischief Cellars, The Lawyer (Lee Vasey had a Sunday residency), Golden Star (trad Jazz), (Gundry) Whites (loads of Prog and other rock), The Festival House (Metal), The Oval (which was owned by Iron Maiden), The Brickmakers (rock and metal), Red Lion on Magdalen Street (a frankly terrifying place, but they put on R&B every week), The Ferry Boat Inn. These are just off the top of my head and I know there are others, because I played them myself. That's ignoring the weekday gigs in Nightclubs and Wine Bars (Ritzy/Madisons, Pennies, Santanas/Jacquard, whatever that wine bar behind Anglia TV was called) and less obvious drinking venues like the Labour Club, UEA Barn, Theatre Royal Studio and the bar of the Art's Centre (not the performance area, which of course is a whole different story)... It was a cool place to live for live music! We obviously drank in different pubs.
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#39 Happy Jack

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 01:24 PM

View Postradiophonic, on 04 January 2017 - 01:01 PM, said:

That's easily the most depressing and wildly inaccurate point of view I've seen since joining this forum.

Hell no! Not even close!

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#40 phil.c60

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 01:31 PM

View PostHappy Jack, on 04 January 2017 - 01:24 PM, said:

Hell no! Not even close!

:lol:

Well, he is "No Longer A Newbie" so cut him some slack, Jack (see what I did there!) perhaps he hasn't had a chance to fully immerse himself in the "Precision or Jazz" , "Fender is for mutants" or "Flatwounds are for dullards" threads yet. But don't worry, they'll be round a gain soon and he can find out what a depressing or wildly inacurate point of view really is.
Happy new year, all!

#41 stingrayPete1977

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 01:32 PM

The world moves on, why aren't we all at the ballroom on a sunday afternoon anymore? There will always be a few people that keep genres alive along with suitable venues in some cases but will there be bands full of fifty year old blokes playing Hey Joe forever in every town? Maybe,maybe not.
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#42 chris_b

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 01:34 PM

. . . . bloody Red House more like!!
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Posted 04 January 2017 - 01:41 PM

View Postwateroftyne, on 04 January 2017 - 11:31 AM, said:

One of the covers bands I'm in does newer, dance-y stuff - most of which I'd never heard 'cos I live under a crusty rock - by Avicii, One Republic, etc with guitars bass and drums, and it goes down very well, and it's good fun to play.
I'm even older and crustier than you and I cover their songs in a couple of bands. There's so much good fun stuff to cover out there. A lot of modern pop is fun to play for the bassist and drummer because of a lot of happily varied rhythms :). Max Martin alone has offered up a whole load of eminently coverable and popular songs, probably the wedding fare of the future but fun to play whilst it is fresh.

The other upside of these songs is that it often gets a segment of the audience on your side.

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 01:43 PM

View Postchris_b, on 04 January 2017 - 01:34 PM, said:

. . . . bloody Red House more like!!
Unfortunately we also covered that, oops.

#45 stingrayPete1977

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 01:52 PM

I've played all the usual songs over the years, little red rooster anyone?
IMO

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#46 BassBunny

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 01:59 PM

View PostPhil Starr, on 04 January 2017 - 01:11 AM, said:

So what do you reckon? Would more people go and see pub bands if the fare was a little more varied? Or if it was properly promoted?

I reckon you have hit the nail on the head Phil. I was in a local not long ago that had a band on and I heard a couple of the locals talking and the discussion went something along the lines:
" Great band but we heard it all last week and the week before. Why can't bands come up with something different? "
The North West pub scene is swamped with "Classic" Rock Bands who all seem to have a similar set list. Punters generally like a bit of variety but until bands provide that and Landlords get away from only putting rock bands on the scene will continue to dwindle.
You are also right about the promotion side. Too many people going into the pub game thinking it is easy. It isn't and if you are trying to cover the cost of a band you need to promote, promote, promote. Half the time they can't even be bothered to put the posters up you have provided.
There are some cracking music venues in the NW that have been going for years and get it just right.
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#47 TimR

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 03:34 PM

You don't even have to play all recent music. Even if only 25% is recent it freshens everything up a bit.
It doesn't matter how bad you are, if you enjoy it stick at it. There will always be a couple people who are worse than you and somebody will be making money from them.

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#48 phil.c60

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 04:17 PM

Yeah - we're thinking about doing a couple from the new Rolling Stones album with the blues band.
I'll get my coat. :lol:

#49 radiophonic

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 04:31 PM

View Postphil.c60, on 04 January 2017 - 01:31 PM, said:

Well, he is "No Longer A Newbie" so cut him some slack, Jack (see what I did there!) perhaps he hasn't had a chance to fully immerse himself in the "Precision or Jazz" , "Fender is for mutants" or "Flatwounds are for dullards" threads yet. But don't worry, they'll be round a gain soon and he can find out what a depressing or wildly inacurate point of view really is.
Happy new year, all!

Well I post on various HiFi forums and the same attitude prevails - music stopped in 79, modern music is all rubbish, the only real rock is classic rock etc. Given the centrality of Bass to dub, fusion, post-punk, soul, disco and practically every other non -classic rock genre, I'd kinda hoped for a more highly evolved debate. I do own some tort though... although I keep it hidden.. and a Jazz and a non Fender bass... and some flats and some rounds. We'll see how this goes.
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#50 phil.c60

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 05:06 PM

No criticism intended: just a bit of a light hearted poke at how wild some peoples points of view can be. Including mine, occasionally!

#51 ivansc

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 05:27 PM

Radio is the biggest culprit when it comes to restricted repertoire.

If all you listen to is radio, Chuck Berry only had 2 hits, Hall and Oates 1.
etc etc etc.

#52 steantval

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 08:20 PM

View Postgareth, on 03 January 2017 - 04:02 PM, said:

It's hard running a pub. Really hard.

It may help matters if bands were more sympathetic with landlords

I used to get the gigs for a very successful pub rock band.

If we were doing a new venue, I knew the landlord would be worried about what crowd we would bring. So I gave them two prices and let them decide what to pay us. Our normal gig fee would have been 400 then, so I'd agree with the landlord, if it was a good night pay us the 400, if not, pay us 200 or somewhere between the two that left him with a profit

I think if you try and see things from the landlords viewpoint, it will repay you in time with him giving you more gigs.

In other words don't gig for 400 with less punters in the pub than staff and expect to get booked again

The going rate for four piece bands around our area is 200 and some of the pubs moan about that price.
400 for a pub gig in our area would be a no no.
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#53 gareth

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 08:56 PM

View Poststeantval, on 04 January 2017 - 08:20 PM, said:



The going rate for four piece bands around our area is £200 and some of the pubs moan about that price.
£400 for a pub gig in our area would be a no no.
unfortnately I think that is confirmation that pub gigs are truly dying.

Why?

Because we were earning an average of £400 per gig 10 years ago, yes 10 years ago.

Sad, very sad

#54 grandad

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 09:20 PM

View PostTimR, on 04 January 2017 - 10:01 AM, said:

There's a lot of laziness within musicians and a surprising lack of imagination.

How many of us have heard the 'but we don't have keyboards/drum machine/strings/brass so we can't play that song'?

Complete lack of imagination.
.

Yes, some of my fellow musicians seem to cling to the belief that they have to sound like the original. I like to employ a bit of license with tunes and come up with a new take which to my mind is what a 'cover' is.

Edited by grandad, 04 January 2017 - 09:22 PM.

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#55 FinnDave

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 09:36 PM

Can't see the point of 'sounding like the original'. Might as well just play a record. Live music should bring something new even to such over-used songs like Mustang Sally.
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#56 la bam

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 09:56 PM

I remember being 20 in the mid 90s when pub gigs and drinking was at its height. There was always a band on at a certain pub - youd stay and watch, have a drink and enjoy it, but the onus was being out with your mates. Apart from one band who played all the current indie stuff, who were like a breath of fresh air, and people deliberately went to watch them and stayed the night watching. Thats because they were relevant to the age group in the pub, stood out by playing something different, and were lucky enough to have a current genre of music that suited a band/guitar set up and had countless future classics within it. I dont want to sound old, but i dont see x2 sets worth of current music or chart that would inspire a guitar band to play them, entertain the crowd and sound amazing. Id struggle to name 10 current bands!

#57 TimR

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 09:59 PM

View Postla bam, on 04 January 2017 - 09:56 PM, said:

I remember being 20 in the mid 90s when pub gigs and drinking was at its height. There was always a band on at a certain pub - youd stay and watch, have a drink and enjoy it, but the onus was being out with your mates. Apart from one band who played all the current indie stuff, who were like a breath of fresh air, and people deliberately went to watch them and stayed the night watching. Thats because they were relevant to the age group in the pub, stood out by playing something different, and were lucky enough to have a current genre of music that suited a band/guitar set up and had countless future classics within it. I dont want to sound old, but i dont see x2 sets worth of current music or chart that would inspire a guitar band to play them, entertain the crowd and sound amazing. Id struggle to name 10 current bands!

That's because you're nearly 50 years old.

My kids are always playing tunes that would work in a live situation if you stripped out all the needless production.

I just need to find some people approaching 50 who aren't jaded and cynical.
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#58 lojo

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 10:07 PM

View PostFinnDave, on 04 January 2017 - 09:36 PM, said:

Can't see the point of 'sounding like the original'. Might as well just play a record. Live music should bring something new even to such over-used songs like Mustang Sally.

There's a place for everything , I love playing alternate versions but my main band does it's best to recreate 80s songs as best we can, I enjoy that process and the performing , and so do the crowds we play to.


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#59 FinnDave

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 10:11 PM

View Postlojo, on 04 January 2017 - 10:07 PM, said:

There's a place for everything , I love playing alternate versions but my main band does it's best to recreate 80s songs as best we can, I enjoy that process and the performing , and so do the crowds we play to.

Fair point, and one I know that the tribute bands exploit very successfully. Personally, I prefer to never play anything the same way twice.
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#60 TimR

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 10:14 PM

View Postlojo, on 04 January 2017 - 10:07 PM, said:



There's a place for everything , I love playing alternate versions but my main band does it's best to recreate 80s songs as best we can, I enjoy that process and the performing , and so do the crowds we play to.

I think if you have the manpower and technology and can do it well, that's great.

My point is more that you shouldn't feel limited to certain songs just because you cannot recreate the original recording on the instruments you do have.
It doesn't matter how bad you are, if you enjoy it stick at it. There will always be a couple people who are worse than you and somebody will be making money from them.

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