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Pain at the base of the thumbs during / after a gig


Guest MoJo
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I have noticed, the past 12 months or so that, using the same technique that I always have, I can often feel a pain at the base of both my thumbs during a gig or a long rehearsal. The discomfort causes me to adopt a 'floating thumb' technique with my plucking hand, instead of anchoring my thumb on the edge of the pickup and also shifting to the, frowned upon' pistol grip with my fretting hand, hooking my thumb over the top of the neck. I fear that I may be developing 'thumb arthritis' in both thumbs. Has anyone else experienced this and if so, how did you combat / cope with it. I don't really want to give up playing

Edited by MoJo
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[color=#000000][font=Helvetica][size=2]
[size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Mojo, it could be RSI, but unfortunately, it sounds like there is a chance that it is caused by arthritis, I have it in both thumbs and it has been a big problem for me for the past ten years.[/font][/size][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Helvetica][size=2]
[size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]I had a Trapeziumectomy on my right thumb about eight year’s ago, it’s an operation where the trapezium bone was removed and was replaced by an artificial one, but it didn’t work and I was in more pain than before, so six month’s later it was removed and they used one of my tendons folded into the space which then acts as the buffer between the bones, the result was better, but not great, and now I am experiencing as much pain as before the ops.[/font][/size][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Helvetica][size=2]
[size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Because it wasn’t very successful, I did not go ahead with the second op on my left thumb, it’s still painful, but not as bad as the right thumb, and after each op, I was in a plaster cast for six weeks and then had to wear a brace for about another eight weeks.[/font][/size][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Helvetica][size=2]
[size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]I was advised afterwards by a different specialist, that he would never advise anybody to have the op because of the low success rate.[/font][/size][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Helvetica][size=2]
[size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Here is some information on a Trapeziumectomy,[/font][/size][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Helvetica][size=2]
[size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][u][url="http://www.royalberkshire.nhs.uk/patient-information-leaflets/trapeziumectomy-january-2014.htm"]http://www.royalberkshire.nhs.uk/patient-information-leaflets/trapeziumectomy-january-2014.htm[/url][/u][/font][/size][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Helvetica][size=2]
[size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]To enable me to play, I tend to rest my thumb lightly on the pickup with my wrist resting on the body of the bass, it’s poor technique I know, but it’s the only way I can play now, and with my left hand? I just let my thumb go where it wants to without forcing it to do anything it doesn’t want to, otherwise it becomes too painful.[/font][/size][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Helvetica][size=2]
[size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]I wish you all the best Mojo, and I hope that you find a way of playing that allows you keep on going for some time yet.[/font][/size][/size][/font][/color]

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It might be prudent to have it checked by a medical expert first. Assuming it is a technique problem...check out the clips below.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRkSsapYYsA


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIYuqTsUlyM

Edited by Coilte
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[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1484916365' post='3219649']
It might be prudent to have it checked by a medical expert first. Assuming it is a technique problem...check out the clips below.


[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRkSsapYYsA"]https://www.youtube....h?v=VRkSsapYYsA[/url]


[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIYuqTsUlyM"]https://www.youtube....h?v=uIYuqTsUlyM[/url]
[/quote]Yep, definitely get it checked out first.

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Is it possible you are maybe physically playing too hard. I mean that you are getting into the music and anchoring your thumb harder to allow more pressure with your fingers on the strings.
I used to play very hard on my strings and would get aches on my thumbs but taking advice form BCers i eased off a bit and all is well.

Would agree with others above to get it checked out with GP.
What age group are you out of curiosity. ?

Dave

Edited by dmccombe7
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[quote name='markstuk' timestamp='1484921087' post='3219738']
I think the key here is "both thumbs"... Which probably rules out anything to do with playing technique...[/quote]


Yes...possibly, though the OP could be pressing down on the fretboard too hard using his thumb on the back of the neck. Likewise, he could be pressing down too hard with his thumb on the pick up when plucking.

I do agree with seeking medical advice.

Edited by Coilte
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[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1484921422' post='3219747']
Yes...possibly, though the OP could be pressing down on the fretboard too hard using his thumb on the back of the neck. Likewise, he could be pressing down too hard with his thumb on the pick up when plucking.

I do agree with seeking medical advice.
[/quote]

Sure, possibly/probably .. However having had a mallet fracture in my right hand and now suffering from trigger thumb in my left hand, I do have lots of sympathy.. I've managed to play around these conditions. but the interim period is really frustrating..

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sounds like what I've got, it was diagnosed as Arthritis I also have trouble gripping things (like undoing jar lids), doesn't effect my playing too much (I play with a pick) and fortunately hasn't got any worse recently, the specialist said they could never tell how bad it's going to get, might not get any worse, but it's very common in somebody my age (60+), thanks Doc, I just take a couple of paracetamol when it gets worse than usual

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[quote name='markstuk' timestamp='1484921620' post='3219749']
Sure, possibly/probably .. However having had a mallet fracture in my right hand and now suffering from trigger thumb in my left hand, I do have lots of sympathy.. I've managed to play around these conditions. but the interim period is really frustrating..
[/quote]

What is trigger thumb ??

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1484921422' post='3219747']
Yes...possibly, though the OP could be pressing down on the fretboard too hard using his thumb on the back of the neck. Likewise, he could be pressing down too hard with his thumb on the pick up when plucking.

I do agree with seeking medical advice.
[/quote]

That's exactly what i meant and have suffered this personally on both thumbs. Remedy for me from fellow BC'ers was to turn the amp up and play lighter. That certainly sorted my issue.

[quote name='MoJo' timestamp='1484932256' post='3219857']
Just turned 55 Dave
[/quote]

I know some health conditions are not specifically age related but at our age (I'm 56) it can have an influence on what is happening. Did it just start all of a sudden ie was it there before you started the gig. If no other signs before hand then its possibly just strain on the joints.
I would suggest GP as he can do checks for athritis etc and will take blood samples to determine if its rhuematic or arthritis. I've also had the tests and came back ok. I couldn't move my finger joints and thumbs for approx 4hrs following morning. Doc examined my hands and said hands or joints will feel warm to someone else's touch if its rhuematic and reckoned it was a strain and should clear in few weeks. Took a bit longer but he was right enough. Blood tests confirmed.

Don't put it off as either of these conditions can be treated early to prevent inflamation and joint damage.

Dave

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[quote name='markstuk' timestamp='1484934554' post='3219894']
Trigger thumb/finger

[url="http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/Trigger-finger/Pages/Introduction.aspx"]http://www.nhs.uk/co...troduction.aspx[/url]
[/quote]

Got it now. Not something i had heard of before. Cheers.

Dave

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[quote name='dmccombe7' timestamp='1484920025' post='3219720']
Is it possible you are maybe physically playing too hard. I mean that you are getting into the music and anchoring your thumb harder to allow more pressure with your fingers on the strings.[/quote]

Quite possibly

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[quote name='dmccombe7' timestamp='1484934373' post='3219891']
What is trigger thumb ??



That's exactly what i meant and have suffered this personally on both thumbs. Remedy for me from fellow BC'ers was to turn the amp up and play lighter. That certainly sorted my issue.



I know some health conditions are not specifically age related but at our age (I'm 56) it can have an influence on what is happening. Did it just start all of a sudden ie was it there before you started the gig. If no other signs before hand then its possibly just strain on the joints.
I would suggest GP as he can do checks for athritis etc and will take blood samples to determine if its rhuematic or arthritis. I've also had the tests and came back ok. I couldn't move my finger joints and thumbs for approx 4hrs following morning. Doc examined my hands and said hands or joints will feel warm to someone else's touch if its rhuematic and reckoned it was a strain and should clear in few weeks. Took a bit longer but he was right enough. Blood tests confirmed.

Don't put it off as either of these conditions can be treated early to prevent inflamation and joint damage.

Dave
[/quote]

Comes on during the gig, then I shift my hand position to ease the discomfort. Sometimes the soreness will continue for several days after the gig.

Edited by MoJo
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[quote name='dmccombe7' timestamp='1484934373' post='3219891']
Don't put it off as either of these conditions can be treated early to prevent inflamation and joint damage.
Dave
[/quote]
^^ Spot on. Wife works in a hand therapy clinic and knows a fair bit about hand surgery, lots of info on patient care and consultant feedback. The amount of 'if only you'd come here sooner' she hears is incredible. Folks put it off thinking they're immune / going to get better etc - do go, they can help but they can't if you leave it so don't. Good luck.

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Yes see GP, but they won't always take it seriously. My physiotherapist has a bass player ex-boyfriend and takes my RSI problems completely seriously.

She spotted early signs of arthritis (in my knees) when I was 56 or so - and said anyone over 50 is likely to have some. Seriously, try soaking your feet in warm water with epsom salts for 15 minutes every day, or every other day. Magnesium deficiency is a major cause of arthritis. And the body takes it up better by skin absorption than through the stomach. My knees have been like new since I've started doing this. And it feels good at the end of a hard day too :)

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It's probably arthritis. Welcome to the club.

I've got it in both thumbs; the joints are clicky/grindy, the pain is bearable but when it's not, I've decided (quite recently), I'll just quit playing.

I've also had four procedures to to fix trigger finger/thumb that have been a 100% success. I had hoped my right thumb was more of the same (trigger or de Quervons Syndrome), but a scan showed otherwise.

Edited by NancyJohnson
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[quote name='MoJo' timestamp='1484946187' post='3220008']
General consensus is that getting it checked by my GP is paramount. Thanks for all the input guys :)
[/quote]

When you get the word from your GP or physiotherapist that it's OK to play again, then revisit your technique.

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[quote name='josie' timestamp='1484947090' post='3220017']
Yes see GP, but they won't always take it seriously. My physiotherapist has a bass player ex-boyfriend and takes my RSI problems completely seriously.

She spotted early signs of arthritis (in my knees) when I was 56 or so - and said anyone over 50 is likely to have some. Seriously, try soaking your feet in warm water with epsom salts for 15 minutes every day, or every other day. Magnesium deficiency is a major cause of arthritis. And the body takes it up better by skin absorption than through the stomach. My knees have been like new since I've started doing this. And it feels good at the end of a hard day too :)
[/quote]

That's a good tip. Might try it if i start getting problems but have passed it onto a guitarist friend that suffers a bit.

Dave

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[quote name='josie' timestamp='1484947090' post='3220017']
And the body takes it up better by skin absorption than through the stomach.
[/quote]

I'm sorry, but no.

At a very basic level, the rate at which the skin allows absorption is infinitesimally slow (nicotine release patches), otherwise everytime we took a bath we would effectively swell up like a sponge. The skin layers are there to keep everything in.

Anything ingested orally, will get into your bloodstream far quicker and in higher quantities than simply just soaking.

Edited by NancyJohnson
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[u]UPDATE[/u]
Played last night and paid particular attention to keeping everything light and relaxed. The result, a pain / discomfort free gig and no after effects today. It would seem that I was subconsciously putting too much pressure on the thumbs of both hands. Hopefully, keeping tabs on my technique and staying relaxed should give me a few more years of discomfort free gigging :D

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