Travelling lite: first trip

[scrumpymike]

In my ongoing quest for compact/light-weight stuff I recently bought an Eden WTX264 and a Barefaced One10. As Saturday's gig was drummer-less in a medium-sized venue with a decent PA and sound engineer, I decided to go for it. The multi-band event was running so late that the engineer decided to do a quick set-up (including taking the DI feed from my amp) and sound-checked us on the fly in the first number. So off we go and I'm thinking the overall sound is a bit feeble and all the bass I'm hearing is my slightly clanky back-line thru the One10. At the end of the set, the rest of the band seemed happy enough (?!) but I collared the engineer for a chat. He explained that he wasn't getting any DI signal off my amp so he had to set the mix to my backline. When I asked whether he had noticed the DI level pot on the back of the amp, you can guess what the answer was. I guess the good news was that my mini rig did a remarkably good job at punching above its weight.

But don't you just hate not being in control?

[discreet]

[quote name='scrumpymike' timestamp='1485716806' post='3226076']
But don't you just hate not being in control?
[/quote]

Yes, but you'd better get used to it because you rarely are.

[Ghost_Bass]

Everytime i play a gig with hired PA company i make sure that the techs know about how my amp's DI work, i let them know that it has a switch for mic or line level, another for pre or post EQ and also the ground lift and let them set it the way they want.

For me it's great not being in control, takes my mind of the overal sound and just focus on playing with the band. In pub gigs i generally get stuck with the mixer as i can step in front of the PA to listen the band's mix and correct anything needed. I would prefer to not bother with that.

[Chienmortbb]

[quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1485777482' post='3226535']
Everytime i play a gig with hired PA company i make sure that the techs know about how my amp's DI work, i let them know that it has a switch for mic or line level, another for pre or post EQ and also the ground lift and let them set it the way they want.

For me it's great not being in control, takes my mind of the overal sound and just focus on playing with the band. In pub gigs i generally get stuck with the mixer as i can step in front of the PA to listen the band's mix and correct anything needed. I would prefer to not bother with that.
[/quote]It is amazing how many bands don't go FOH to check the sound in a pub gig.

[Ghost_Bass]

[quote name='Chienmortbb' timestamp='1485904384' post='3227690']
It is amazing how many bands don't go FOH to check the sound in a pub gig.
[/quote]

How do they mix the band's sound? Does each one only worries about being able to listen to his own instrument? Not very professional, especially if they're being payed for the gig... IMO and IME most punters will judge a band for it's sound, if the sound is bad the band is bad and not worth staying in the pub to listen to them.

Edited February 1, 2017 by Ghost_Bass

[scrumpymike]

[quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1485944432' post='3227829']
How do they mix the band's sound? Does each one only worries about being able to listen to his own instrument? Not very professional, especially if they're being payed for the gig... IMO and IME most punters will judge a band for it's sound, if the sound is bad the band is bad and not worth staying in the pub to listen to them.
[/quote]
Agreed! For pub gigs and similar I always have a trusted pair of ears in the audience.

[Chienmortbb]

[quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1485944432' post='3227829']
How do they mix the band's sound? Does each one only worries about being able to listen to his own instrument? Not very professional, especially if they're being payed for the gig... IMO and IME most punters will judge a band for it's sound, if the sound is bad the band is bad and not worth staying in the pub to listen to them.
[/quote]The worst two I have seem recentlyused IEMs for monitoring, no backline (except the bass). They both seemed happy once the IEM mix was OK

[casapete]

[quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1485777482' post='3226535']
Everytime i play a gig with hired PA company i make sure that the techs know about how my amp's DI work, i let them know that it has a switch for mic or line level, another for pre or post EQ and also the ground lift and let them set it the way they want.

For me it's great not being in control, takes my mind of the overal sound and just focus on playing with the band. In pub gigs i generally get stuck with the mixer as i can step in front of the PA to listen the band's mix and correct anything needed. I would prefer to not bother with that.
[/quote]

Often easier to just use a DI box than have the tech stressing over how your amp works.
A Behringer BD121 is a cheap useful bit of kit for such occasions.

[Ghost_Bass]

[quote name='casapete' timestamp='1486025090' post='3228543']
Often easier to just use a DI box than have the tech stressing over how your amp works.
A Behringer BD121 is a cheap useful bit of kit for such occasions.
[/quote]

So... here's the Behringer:



And here's my amp's DI out on the right of the back pannel:



Do you really think that the Tech will have less trouble setting up the Behringer? And i won't even mention the huge difference in quality between the Genz Benz's DI ou (or Alembic F1-X's DI wich is what i use the most in outdoor gigs with hired PA company) and the behringer...

Same applies to simpler DI's like the BSS AR-133, same number of switches and one more cable to connect:



Oh! And a battery that need to be checked too...

[Chienmortbb]

SadlyI think some Soundmen/women would be terrified by the switch options on the Amp.

[casapete]

[quote name='Chienmortbb' timestamp='1486041382' post='3228693']
SadlyI think some Soundmen/women would be terrified by the switch options on the Amp.
[/quote]

+1. Hence my DI box recommendation.

As already outlined in other threads, many sound guys prefer to use an outboard DI - mostly
due to reliability in case of amp failure and some amps having not very 'clean' DI outputs.
Whilst DI outs are handy on amps, and as you rightly point out should be easier to set up / less
cabling etc, just notice on how many pro gigs / setups that a DI box is used.

[discreet]

Every time I offer up my own DI box or amp with a DI out, the sound guy snorts, rolls his eyes, gives me a withering look and connects the box he brought with him.

Edited February 2, 2017 by discreet

[Ghost_Bass]

[quote name='Chienmortbb' timestamp='1486041382' post='3228693']
SadlyI think some Soundmen/women would be terrified by the switch options on the Amp.
[/quote]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1486043150' post='3228729']
Every time I offer up my own DI box or amp with a DI out, the sound guy snorts, rolls his eyes, gives me a withering look and connects the box he brought with him.
[/quote]

I have quite the opposite reaction. Once they read "Alembic" on the face of my preamp they drop the AR-133 and hook up to the preamp with a smile in their face... even with the Genz nobody has ever said they prefer their DI or given me a bad face. Nobody has complained about the sound quality also. I do ask them to leave their DI next to my amp just in case something bad happens and the amp goes up in smoke mid set.

Only sure answer i know i'll get is to when i ask if they want the signal pre or post EQ

[Lozz196]

Most people are happy with DI-ing from my Sansamp, but if they`re not I just make sure the Sansamp is in the line before their DI, that way FOH gets my sound, they use their fave-box, so all are happy.

[krispn]

In the past when I've had a separate di box with me I'd often just switch it over and tell the sound guy I was doing so. If it's gigs where my back line is being used and I'm there from load in/set up I'll always chat to the sound guy, explain what I'm after and what kit I have and usually we have no bother.

I did once have a sound guy snub my preamp di for his cheap and battered di box but I unplugged it, carried it back to him and explained there was a Jensen transformer on the di out of the pre and if it was good enough for Boosty Collins to mod his Neve console with one then we could probably get by with it for one night.

Ultimately you'd hope the sound guy has the basic kit and knowledge to get you heard. That is kinda the point of him being there irrespective of who's gear is the primary di!

Edited February 3, 2017 by krispn

[40hz]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1486043150' post='3228729']
Every time I offer up my own DI box or amp with a DI out, the sound guy snorts, rolls his eyes, gives me a withering look and connects the box he brought with him.
[/quote]

This. Everytime, without fail.

[Ghost_Bass]

I know my gear, its of good quality, i do proper maintenance to it regularly and it's been well handled and not abused. I should be the one who rolls eyes and snorts when the soundguy comes over with a battered old AR-133 that looks like its been caught under a jackhammer and dragged through gravel...

[casapete]

But looking at it from the soundguy's point of view - he [i]knows [/i]that his ( maybe battered ) old AR-133 works
properly, and thus is one less thing to consider in the set-up. Also I've done countless gigs where the backline
of some bands is not that good a quality / well maintained etc, despite maybe looking reasonable enough.
He's just saving time getting the job done, can't blame him?

[mcnach]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1486043150' post='3228729']
Every time I offer up my own DI box or amp with a DI out, the sound guy snorts, rolls his eyes, gives me a withering look and connects the box he brought with him.
[/quote]

I knew that guy.
It gave me enormous pleasure that the second time he did sound for us, his DI box did not work and ended up using the DI from my MarkBass LMIII. He's used that ever since

[mcnach]

[quote name='casapete' timestamp='1486128615' post='3229440']
But looking at it from the soundguy's point of view - he [i]knows [/i]that his ( maybe battered ) old AR-133 works
properly, and thus is one less thing to consider in the set-up. Also I've done countless gigs where the backline
of some bands is not that good a quality / well maintained etc, despite maybe looking reasonable enough.
He's just saving time getting the job done, can't blame him?
[/quote]

I understand that. But it's the way some dismiss your own equipment that I find slightly irritating as it borders on condescending. Most, however, seem to approach and say "you've got DI there, cool, plug this in" or tell me "I'd rather use my box, is that ok?", and I have no problem.
I have to admit that from my experience of what many band members are like, if I were a sound person, I'd probably want to stick to my own equipment.

[casapete]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1486371307' post='3231085']


I understand that. But it's the way some dismiss your own equipment that I find slightly irritating as it borders on condescending. Most, however, seem to approach and say "you've got DI there, cool, plug this in" or tell me "I'd rather use my box, is that ok?", and I have no problem.
I have to admit that from my experience of what many band members are like, if I were a sound person, I'd probably want to stick to my own equipment.
[/quote]

Yup, totally agree. There are great sound guys out there, and as with everything else in this world,
it's the few dodgy ones who give the rest a bad name. I've nearly always found if you treat them with
respect then you get that in return.

[fftc]

[quote name='scrumpymike' timestamp='1485716806' post='3226076']
In my ongoing quest for compact/light-weight stuff I recently bought an Eden WTX264 and a Barefaced One10.
[/quote]

What's your thoughts on the Eden? Got a review anywhere for it?

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='Chienmortbb' timestamp='1486041382' post='3228693']
SadlyI think some Soundmen/women would be terrified by the switch options on the Amp.
[/quote]

Well just set them to sensible defaults i.e. earthed/post/mic and only fiddle with it if it doesn't work.

[scrumpymike]

[quote name='fftc' timestamp='1486372950' post='3231101']
What's your thoughts on the Eden? Got a review anywhere for it?
[/quote]

I'm pleased I got it but maybe haven't spent enough time with it yet to feel comfortable about recommending it to others - especially because I've recently bought a bunch of other stuff as well and I'm still getting my head round it all. Before buying the amp I read this

[url="http://www.premierguitar.com/articles/7_Micro_Bass_Amp_Heads_for_Any_Budget?page=5"]http://www.premierguitar.com/articles/7_Micro_Bass_Amp_Heads_for_Any_Budget?page=5[/url]

and the Basschat / Talkbass forum stuff that a Google search (amp make/model + review) brought up. Bargain price was a big factor for me too as it's a back-up for my TE.