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Sought after basses of the future?


Number6
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[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1489333509' post='3256095']
I reckon the US Fender 2012 - 16 Series may well become a bit like the JVs, as imo they really upped their game on these ones, both Precision and Jazz alike.
[/quote]

I'd argue it was upped from the 2008 onwards, as that's where the bigger difference came in imo.

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[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1489333508' post='3256094']
....and Carl Thompson.
[/quote]

I don't think so, for the same reason that I don't think that Sei basses will ever be really sought after once Martin Peterson stops making them; for the reason that they are too individual.

The reason that Wal basses fit the profile is the fact that there is essentially one model (with a few variations) and irrespective of the top woods used the things that make a Wal what it is, the body shape, the pickups and the pre-amp are consistent from one example to the next.

For that reason, should a big name bass player (or two) ever start using a Gus bass exclusively, then they will achieve the same status as Wal because there is little non-cosmetic variation from one example to the next. It will be interesting to see what happens over the next 10 or so years with Gus. Simon Farmer got a lot of rather useful publicity out of the fact that Prince used one of his guitars very briefly at his last ever gig.

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CT basses are an interesting proposition. According to the website he is no longer taking custom orders and the only new instruments being produced are the no frills and semi-frills basses, which will be a lot more consistent in terms of features from one example to the next which will definitely help with future collectability. However I suspect that Les Claypool is the main driving force behind the desirability of CT basses, but the range of instruments that CT has produced over the last 40 years encompasses a lot more than the type of bass that Les Claypool is associated with, so I suspect that while certain instruments will only get more collectable as time goes on, not every CT bass will go through the same increase in value.

It would have interesting to see what would have happened with Gus had Prince not passed away when he did. Apparently he was very taken with his G1 Guitar and was in discussion for a matching bass...

One of the things that always amuses me when discussing the desirability of Wal basses, especially their distinctive sound, is that the two bassists most renowned for being Wal users, one (Mick Karn) sounded pretty much the same when he was using his Travis Bean TB2000, and most of his best known work was done with that bass; and the other (Justin Chancellor) sound is as much to do with his pedal board as it is with his choice of bass.

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As far as GUS goes, Simon Farmer has (I think) finished making the G3 bass he had started making for Prince (I understand a collector got in touch with him and said he would buy it - for an undisclosed sum) and is also in the process of making a limited run of Prince G1 guitars, on top of his new G5 model. It would be typical that soon Gus guitars will cost an absolute fortune to buy just when I've had to (for financial reasons) had to get rid of my collection at a loss :(

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The Wal thing is odd for me... Until I joined basschat I had never heard of any of their "name" players of yesteryear... I just played one and it sounded better than everything else I'd ever tried.

Mine are sixers though so the chance of them ever being worth anywhere near what I paid for them is minimal... no bother though... I intend to play them to *death anyway :)



* mine or theirs :mellow:

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[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1489418908' post='3256740']
Well, I think Wal and I think/hear Geddy.

[/quote]

Me too, but that's because I'm a massive fan of Geddy and his playing/style/basses, not a Wal afficionado. Anyone with only a passing interest in Rush is far more likely to associate him with Fender Jazz basses or Rickenbackers (IMO of course!).

For the record, the tone Geddy got from his Wal represents my least favourite chapter of Rush's history (although, to be fair, a lot of that is to do with the way those albums were recorded) - although Power Windows is pretty damned good B)

Edited by Conan
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[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1489418908' post='3256740']
Well, I think Wal and I think/hear Geddy.
[/quote]

And for me Geddy Lee will always be associated with the Rickenbacker on the cover of "All The World's A Stage".

Edited by BigRedX
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[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1489390201' post='3256453']
Always Fenders... they will always be the oldest.
[/quote]A mate's son has just bought his first bass. He learned on his dad's SSD (which I sold him - cracking bass). He bought a Jazz cos all the bands he knows are playing Fenders.

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[size=3][font="Calibri"][color="#000000"]It’s funny the way in which you hear Wals being referenced in terms of the big 3… Mick, Geddy and Justin as if that is the gamut of the Wal sound.[/color][/font][/size]
[size=3][font="Calibri"][color="#000000"] [/color][/font][/size]
[size=3][font="Calibri"][color="#000000"]For me whilst I enjoy Geddy’s late 80s/early 90s sound and the bits of Mick’s fretless I have heard (Japan were never a huge part of my listening list and I can’t honestly hum any tune by Tool) they represent for me only the tiniest corner of what a Wal is capable of. And it’s their ability to sculpt a host of different tonalities which has always been a huge draw for me (fingers arguments notwithstanding).[/color][/font][/size]
[size=3][font="Calibri"][color="#000000"] [/color][/font][/size]
[size=3][font="Calibri"][color="#000000"]Think of other notable Wal users and their tones… Flea on BSSM, Bruce Thomas on Elvis Costello’s “Punch the Clock”, Laurence Cottle with his Big Band, with The Alan Parsons Project or with Black Sabbath, Macca on Flowers in the Dirt or the Light Fantastic Live Album, Martin Kemp with Spandau Ballet, John Illsley with Dire Straits, Percy Jones with Brand X, Jeff Ament with Pearl Jam, Greg Lake on the ELP Black Moon album… all broadly different examples of tones that a Wal is capable of producing.[/color][/font][/size]
[size=3][font="Calibri"][color="#000000"] [/color][/font][/size]
[size=3][font="Calibri"][color="#000000"]Back on topic, though, it was interesting to see what happened with the second hand price of Wal basses in the two or three year hiatus between Pete Stevens finally retiring and Paul Herman restarting production. If I recall the highest I saw a pretty standard Wal model go for was around $9500 dollars (around £7500 at the time – a decade ago now). It will be interesting to see how other luthier brands go when their makers stop making. However, as others have said, I suspect it will also be driven by distinctives around design. Zemaitis basses were already goig to silly prices before Tony Zemaitis. Real Zemaitis guitars and basses are now eye-wateringly expensive. And if any instrument had a distinctive USP they were one.[/color][/font][/size]
[size=3][font="Calibri"][color="#000000"] [/color][/font][/size]
[size=3][font="Calibri"][color="#000000"]At least the future of Wal seems secure for the foreseeable.[/color][/font][/size]

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Wal basses are a bit of a funny one. Many here will be able to remember they were in the doldrums, price and image wise!

I remember a Basschatter describing how, in the 90's they were thought of as rather naff, thought of as the dream bass of the pub player who was still playing the hits of the 80's. It was the sort of bass a boy done good with a pools win might buy. Rather dated, by that age.

I never bought into that viewpoint because I worshipped Geddy Lee and to a lesser extent, Jonas Hellborg. I do remember when just over £1000 would secure a decent 4 string Wal from a trader though, never mind a private sale!

Of course, their fortunes changed dramatically, and the demand from America grew massively off the back of this 'well kept secret', and we are now at the stage where I genuinely feel, for all the love that I have for these unique and amazing instruments, that they can change hands for rather more than they are really worth. At a time, they represented, to me, a good standard of woodworking and playability with an astounding set of electronics and a tone to die for. Now other builders like ACG offer options that to my mind, do 'all that and more' of the Wal filter preamp tone.

Don't get me wrong, I love them and I covet them but their deification still rather mystifies me.


As for other basses you won't lose money on, Kubicki basses remain a topic of interest to me. I note that since the unfortunate passing of Philip Kubicki, the rarest of his Ex Factor basses are quickly becoming more valuable. Early serial numbers and late serial numbers (essentially basses built outside of the period when Fender supported his operation and distributed his guitars) are trading for higher values now. This to me, suggests that some speculation continues to be involved in the market values as the Fender era instruments should be no less valuable as they were no less of an instrument.

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[quote name='TrevorR' timestamp='1489427650' post='3256837']
[size=3][font="Calibri"][color="#000000"]It’s funny the way in which you hear Wals being referenced in terms of the big 3… Mick, Geddy and Justin as if that is the gamut of the Wal sound.[/color][/font][/size]
[size=3][font="Calibri"][color="#000000"] [/color][/font][/size]
[size=3][font="Calibri"][color="#000000"]For me whilst I enjoy Geddy’s late 80s/early 90s sound and the bits of Mick’s fretless I have heard (Japan were never a huge part of my listening list and I can’t honestly hum any tune by Tool) they represent for me only the tiniest corner of what a Wal is capable of. And it’s their ability to sculpt a host of different tonalities which has always been a huge draw for me (fingers arguments notwithstanding).[/color][/font][/size]
[size=3][font="Calibri"][color="#000000"] [/color][/font][/size]
[size=3][font="Calibri"][color="#000000"]Think of other notable Wal users and their tones… Flea on BSSM, Bruce Thomas on Elvis Costello’s “Punch the Clock”, Laurence Cottle with his Big Band, with The Alan Parsons Project or with Black Sabbath, Macca on Flowers in the Dirt or the Light Fantastic Live Album, Martin Kemp with Spandau Ballet, John Illsley with Dire Straits, Percy Jones with Brand X, Jeff Ament with Pearl Jam, Greg Lake on the ELP Black Moon album… all broadly different examples of tones that a Wal is capable of producing.[/color][/font][/size]
[size=3][font="Calibri"][color="#000000"] [/color][/font][/size]
[size=3][font="Calibri"][color="#000000"]Back on topic, though, it was interesting to see what happened with the second hand price of Wal basses in the two or three year hiatus between Pete Stevens finally retiring and Paul Herman restarting production. If I recall the highest I saw a pretty standard Wal model go for was around $9500 dollars (around £7500 at the time – a decade ago now). It will be interesting to see how other luthier brands go when their makers stop making. However, as others have said, I suspect it will also be driven by distinctives around design. Zemaitis basses were already goig to silly prices before Tony Zemaitis. Real Zemaitis guitars and basses are now eye-wateringly expensive. And if any instrument had a distinctive USP they were one.[/color][/font][/size]
[size=3][font="Calibri"][color="#000000"] [/color][/font][/size]
[size=3][font="Calibri"][color="#000000"]At least the future of Wal seems secure for the foreseeable.[/color][/font][/size]
[/quote]

You didn't mention Alsn Spenner - central to the sound of Roximusic in the late 70s/early 80s and for me, epitomising the Wal sound.

As for Wals being thought of as naff in the 90s, well clearly Flea didn't think so - however it's rather like Fenders - definitely considered naff in the early 80s and too thin sounding for most genres. Quite a renaissance over the last decade but remember fashions come and go.

Did anyone mention Hofner - definitely immortalised by one of our national treasures!!

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100% agreed on Alan Spenner. Only excluded because he never really played the Custom Series which the others listed above all used (tho some also had JGs and Pros too).

Many things go in phases and desirability waxes and wanes. Certainly Wals had a glory days period in the 80s, were a bit less prominent in the 90s and gained more widespread notoriety and appeal in the 2000s again.

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[quote name='Chris2112' timestamp='1489430601' post='3256864']
Now other builders like ACG offer options that to my mind, do 'all that and more' of the Wal filter preamp tone.

Don't get me wrong, I love them and I covet them but their deification still rather mystifies me.


[/quote]Chris2112 sleeps with the fishes after upsetting the Walfia.

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[quote name='TrevorR' timestamp='1489427650' post='3256837']
[size=3][font=Calibri][color=#000000]It’s funny the way in which you hear Wals being referenced in terms of the big 3… Mick, Geddy and Justin as if that is the gamut of the Wal sound.[/color][/font][/size]

[size=3][font=Calibri][color=#000000]For me whilst I enjoy Geddy’s late 80s/early 90s sound and the bits of Mick’s fretless I have heard (Japan were never a huge part of my listening list and I can’t honestly hum any tune by Tool) they represent for me only the tiniest corner of what a Wal is capable of. And it’s their ability to sculpt a host of different tonalities which has always been a huge draw for me (fingers arguments notwithstanding).[/color][/font][/size]

[size=3][font=Calibri][color=#000000]Think of other notable Wal users and their tones… Flea on BSSM, Bruce Thomas on Elvis Costello’s “Punch the Clock”, Laurence Cottle with his Big Band, with The Alan Parsons Project or with Black Sabbath, Macca on Flowers in the Dirt or the Light Fantastic Live Album, Martin Kemp with Spandau Ballet, John Illsley with Dire Straits, Percy Jones with Brand X, Jeff Ament with Pearl Jam, Greg Lake on the ELP Black Moon album… all broadly different examples of tones that a Wal is capable of producing.[/color][/font][/size]

[size=3][font=Calibri][color=#000000]Back on topic, though, it was interesting to see what happened with the second hand price of Wal basses in the two or three year hiatus between Pete Stevens finally retiring and Paul Herman restarting production. If I recall the highest I saw a pretty standard Wal model go for was around $9500 dollars (around £7500 at the time – a decade ago now). It will be interesting to see how other luthier brands go when their makers stop making. However, as others have said, I suspect it will also be driven by distinctives around design. Zemaitis basses were already goig to silly prices before Tony Zemaitis. Real Zemaitis guitars and basses are now eye-wateringly expensive. And if any instrument had a distinctive USP they were one.[/color][/font][/size]

[size=3][font=Calibri][color=#000000]At least the future of Wal seems secure for the foreseeable.[/color][/font][/size]
[/quote]

And what about Leigh Gorman of Bow Wow Wow?

I think that the collectability of a particular bass depends very much on interesting players using that particular bass in preference to all others and not just as a passing phase like some of those mentioned above, who for me can just as easily be associated with other basses - like Martin Kemp who for me will always be associated with the Stingray he used in the early days when they were interesting rather than popular.

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No doubt about it !!!

Vigier basses and guitars !!!

Also Grand Master basses !!!

[url="http://www.grandmasterguitars.com"]http://www.grandmasterguitars.com[/url]

And I am not biased at all.

But also the usual names that have got away with selling sh*te for decades so I suppose the sheep will always pay more for these basses.

Edited by Bbiigg Kev
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[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1489419818' post='3256752']
For the record, the tone Geddy got from his Wal represents my least favourite chapter of Rush's history....
[/quote]

Geddy's Wal tone is one of the worst bass sounds I'ver ever heard.
Bloody awful, sounds like rubber bands stretched over a shoe box.

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[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1489500663' post='3257446']
Geddy's Wal tone is one of the worst bass sounds I'ver ever heard. Bloody awful, sounds like rubber bands stretched over a shoe box.
[/quote]

From Rush.com's "rig rundown" section, 1989:


The colour-coding apparently helped him when he was breaking in a new ARP synthesiser and bass pedal arrangement.

Edited by Conan
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[quote name='Bbiigg Kev' timestamp='1489500248' post='3257437']
No doubt about it !!!

Vigier basses and guitars !!!

Also Grand Master basses !!!

[url="http://www.grandmasterguitars.com"]http://www.grandmasterguitars.com[/url]

And I am not biased at all.

But also the usual names that have got away with selling sh*te for decades so I suppose the sheep will always pay more for these basses.
[/quote]
They all look rank to me, I'll stick with my sheep bass thanks :)

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