Charity Gigs

[Kevin Dean]

If a pub puts on a all day charity event & over 20 bands play free of charge , the PA is donated free & then I find out that the pub that would normally take about £2k takes over £9k & only gives a donation of £200 to the charity . Is that legal or just immoral ?

[BigRedX]

Business

[gary mac]

This is why our band don't get involved with these sort of events, not saying we don't do our bit for charity, we do but just not the sort where the real winner is the Landlord.

[stingrayPete1977]

I'm waiting for TimR to arrive to tell us something about hedge funds and corporate blah blah again.

Arse and shove it up your spring to mind

[markstuk]

[quote name='Kevin Dean' timestamp='1490171827' post='3262729']
If a pub puts on a all day charity event & over 20 bands play free of charge , the PA is donated free & then I find out that the pub that would normally take about £2k takes over £9k & only gives a donation of £200 to the charity . Is that legal or just immoral ?
[/quote]

It's immoral but not illegal.. And the charity won't care because it's just bunce for them with no effort... Most of these I do in the south midlands seem to hand over in excess of £2k as a comparison..

[la bam]

Events and organisers like that need exposing. It's pretty much using a charity to fund there own pockets.

Sad thing is, out of that £200 a big percentage of that will be used to pay running costs at the charity, so they might end up with only a small percentage of that.

Edited March 22, 2017 by la bam

[bassjim]

If the pub in question is saying upfront that a sizeable percentage of profits ie: 70-80 percent are going to the charity, and its a cause you would support plus you just wanna get out and play the its ok.
If you get paid to play at the same pub regardless as a regular band, but feel you are being enticed into helping draw a crowd but dont want to piss of the landlord or now you have a future gig bookings dilema, and its not clear where those profits are going, make sure you have a gig somewhere else that day.

[timmo]

No experience in this sort of thing, but perhaps bands should ask what percentage of the days takings over their usual margins are going to the charity, or the minimum if the takings are not so good. If all the bands do this and get a breakdown of the takings, then it maybe easier to make a decision as to if it is worth doing. I would have expected a good chunk more than £200 if your figures are true. If there was no agreement of how much should go to the charity, then I guess they have done nothing wrong

[Les]

It's sharp, but legal.

We do the odd charity on the understanding that the venue pays our fee to us on the day, we will then hand it over to the charity.

[Cat Burrito]

I view charity as a personal matter (I privately donate to carefully screened charities) and not one for my bands to get involved in. Sadly there are too many people who take advantage and money goes missing etc. I've heard horror stories of 50% cuts and all sorts.

It might be business as said but when bar staff are getting paid, landlords are getting a regular flow of drinking punters and the bands are getting no soundcheck, no thanks and being ordered to share kit, I will pass. Been there, done that.

[Phil Starr]

You say if, do you have any evidence or is this just hypothetical?

I'd say it is immoral and potential illegal depending upon how adverts etc were worded and what contracts there were with the bands.

If the bands were recruited on the basis that their time was donated to raise money for (insert charity) then if the donation was less than their combined fees then I would say there was a possible case that the bands had been defrauded. Equally if the public had paid an entrance fee 'for charity' then they could reasonably expect that money to go to the charity in question.

The bar takings are another issue, firstly the extra £7k takings won't all be profit (though you'd expect maybe £2k profit), and there may have been reasonable promotional costs for advertising, staging PA etc.

It's interesting, charity Christmas card from the supermarkets usually only give a very small proportion of the costs of a card to the charities (and the price of a charity card is usually higher than a non charity card by more than that donation) but they get away with it because they clearly state what the donation will be. Legal if not ethical.

I'm a born trouble maker, I'd be contacting the other bands to see if they knew that their goodwill was being exploited and I'd be contacting the charity as well if I had any evidence, copying it to the charities commission. I might even ask the organiser to give you a breakdown of the takings profit and accounts for the event. They won't give you them but it'll certainly rattle their cage.

I really hate this, it gives the cynics all the reason they need to condemn charity and undermines the generosity of the rest of us.

[stingrayPete1977]

The cynics are cynical for a reason

[blue]

[quote name='Les' timestamp='1490203551' post='3263239']
It's sharp, but legal.

We do the odd charity on the understanding that the venue pays our fee to us on the day, we will then hand it over to the charity.
[/quote]

I like that.

Blue

[blue]

[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1490204434' post='3263248']
The only reason licencees are willing to host events like this is for alcohol sales.

As Big Red says, it's business. We shouldn't be surprised that they want to keep as much of the "hard earned cash" as they can get away with.
[/quote]

I always say, if you find out it's only those providing music (the bands)that are not being paid, bail on it

Blue

Edited March 22, 2017 by blue

[Les]

[quote name='la bam' timestamp='1490179426' post='3262857']
Sad thing is, out of that £200 a big percentage of that will be used to pay running costs at the charity, so they might end up with only a small percentage of that.
[/quote]

Then that pays £200 of their running costs, it's not really sad it's just a fact of running a large organisation, people want paying for working for them and the rent needs to be paid.

[radiophonic]

It's horribly cynical, but exactly what I'd expect from a pub landlord. We do charity gigs but only if we know the terms up front. Due to the history and demographic of the band, we know quite a few people who have overlapping involvement in arts organisations and refugee charities in the midlands and do stuff for them, but it would never involve a commercial venue like a pub anyway. I'd always assume they were on the make.

[la bam]

[quote name='Les' timestamp='1490228709' post='3263507']


Then that pays £200 of their running costs, it's not really sad it's just a fact of running a large organisation, people want paying for working for them and the rent needs to be paid.
[/quote]

So in essence hardly any money from the 9k goes to the people in need. You've just worked your socks off gigging, giving up your free time and effort to pay somebody else's wages.

I've no problem with covering costs, but giving such a low percentage of the 9k doesn't help in the spirit it was meant to and how all those who helped raise it hoped out would be.

[Les]

[quote name='la bam' timestamp='1490257778' post='3263600']


So in essence hardly any money from the 9k goes to the people in need. You've just worked your socks off gigging, giving up your free time and effort to pay somebody else's wages.

I've no problem with covering costs, but giving such a low percentage of the 9k doesn't help in the spirit it was meant to and how all those who helped raise it hoped out would be.
[/quote]

Agreed but you were referring to what happens to the actual 200 quid. That's what I responded to.

[Kevin Dean]

Anyway trading standards are looking into it & quite a a few of those bands are now refusing to play at this venue , It'll be interesting to see what Trading Standards have to say , I'm just looking at the add for the event "In aid of ..." it should of said "in aid of the pub "