Fender Rumble 60 at a rehearsal studio..... really??

[Dad3353]

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1497961584' post='3321624']
hmmm, I'm a drummer and I used to like to mic up the kick drum...
[/quote]

It's all a bit 'genre-dependant', of course. In my vein of predilection, it's the hi-hat that is most important to me; the bass drum is used mostly simply as punctuation, not the 'big beat'. Old-school swing style.
Of course, things change a little when 'Daddy Cool' is in the repertoire, or 'Highway To Hell'..!

[Freddy Le Cragg]

The space we use is 10 an hour with a DW kit, TC Electronic 250w bass amp, a Marshall stack, a Marshall 4x12, a 100w valvestate combo and a decent Pa with full monitor setup. Also has a kitchen with free tea and coffee facilities.

[mikel]

[quote name='Monkey Steve' timestamp='1497956909' post='3321573']
Exactly, it makes no sense to me either, but I've been in two different bands with drummers who insist that the bass drum needs to be mic'd at all times (and to be clear, it's been in the studio and at pub gigs where we'd do our own sound, situations where he could have a say, not where an engineer is sorting it out). Not all drummers, but it was definitely a "thing" with the pair of them. And like you, I can't understand it...just thought I'd ask
[/quote]

I play drums in another band and If I play the BD hard, at a pub gig, the glasses shake on the bar. And thats with a 20" un miced full front head. There is no need to mic a kit at all for small gigs. For rehearsals I always drape my coat over the front head to keep the volume down. Drums can be loud, bloody loud If you play them hard, but If you have control you can play them very softly.

[Monkey Steve]

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1497961584' post='3321624']
hmmm, I'm a drummer and I used to like to mic up the kick drum. I found that when playing rock music, I'd get carried away twatting the snare and cymbals extremely hard, and couldn't get the kick drum to match. Obviously that's crap technique but it never occurred to me to change it until I started playing folk in tiny pubs with no drum mics - you have to do your own mix then! So now I match the level of the kick drum to the others (well, slightly louder actually) so it doesn't matter if I'm mic'd up
[/quote]

[quote name='mikel' timestamp='1497964388' post='3321649']
I play drums in another band and If I play the BD hard, at a pub gig, the glasses shake on the bar. And thats with a 20" un miced full front head. There is no need to mic a kit at all for small gigs. For rehearsals I always drape my coat over the front head to keep the volume down. Drums can be loud, bloody loud If you play them hard, but If you have control you can play them very softly.
[/quote]

What I'm interested in (and apologies to the OP for completely hijacking the thread) is whether, given this spread of opposing theories, it's a matter of the bass drum actually being quieter than the rest of the kit, or if it's the drummer's position meaning that they can hear the rest of the kit much louder and assuming (incorrectly) that the BD needs amplifying (like the guitarist standing too close to his amp and thinking that he is much quieter than everybody else)? Because my experience of standing in front of the drum kits in question was that the BD was plenty loud and we tended to let them mic it up to make them feel better about their sound rather than because it needed it.

[cheddatom]

I guess if you're playing cymbals quite loud, and your bass drum beater is a felty/foamy/soft thing, then the dull thud isn't going to cut through quite as much. If you're sat right on the kit, that might be more of an issue than being further away where you might be able to appreciate the low frequency punch of the bass drum a bit more relative to the cymbals

I have a wooden beater with no front head for when I'm playing rock/metal as this gives me plenty of high-mid "thwack" and I have no problem hearing it un-amplified vs full stacks

EDIT: Sorry, to be more direct, no, there's nothing about the bass drum that should make it quieter than the rest of the kit from the drummer's POV

Edited June 20, 2017 by cheddatom

[stingrayPete1977]

There's always the issue of the situation too, a 40 minute slot on a multi band line-up might be fine for your drummer to thump away for the set, two one and a half hour sets for a function band with a fairly quiet smallish kick drum might benefit from a little help? Bassists like a bit of head room, why shouldn't the drummer get any?

Edited June 20, 2017 by stingrayPete1977

[dmccombe7]

Guess i've been lucky then with studios. Its either been Ampeg 8x10, Ashdown 610, Warwick 410 cabs with a combination of varying heads including Ampeg SVT4 Pro (which is main reason i bought one) Warwick, Ashdown, Aguilar and various EBS amps. Once had a full Markbass rig with 410 and 115 cabs (nice)

It allowed me to hear quite a few different set ups and a contributing factor why i bought my Ampeg head and my Markbass combo with ext cab. Some of the amps i just didn't like at all like the Aguilar and EBS. I just could not get a nice tone from them at all. No warmth ?

Dave

[phil.c60]

Or, use one of these: www.porteranddavies.co.uk/products/bc-gigster/. Specifically designed so the drummer can hear (well feel, to be more accurate) the bass drum when playing quietly. Works for our drummer. He doesn't use it at all gigs, but does on the ones where we have a real noise issue and we really have to rein it in.

[Monkey Steve]

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1497971094' post='3321718']
I guess if you're playing cymbals quite loud, and your bass drum beater is a felty/foamy/soft thing, then the dull thud isn't going to cut through quite as much. If you're sat right on the kit, that might be more of an issue than being further away where you might be able to appreciate the low frequency punch of the bass drum a bit more relative to the cymbals

I have a wooden beater with no front head for when I'm playing rock/metal as this gives me plenty of high-mid "thwack" and I have no problem hearing it un-amplified vs full stacks

EDIT: Sorry, to be more direct, no, there's nothing about the bass drum that should make it quieter than the rest of the kit from the drummer's POV
[/quote]

Thanks Tom - that makes sense. Although it brings me round in circles to why the drummers I know insist on mic'ing it up when everybody else things it's loud enough...probably best not to delve too deeply into the drummers mind...

[Dad3353]

As I wrote above ^^, I'm more towards the 'deaf' end of the scale, but have, and never have had, any problems hearing the bass drum I'm playing (pretty standard 22", full drum heads both sides, Camco 5-piece kit...). There must be quite a racket going on all around to drown out a bass drum, even when playing more lightly, except (again, as stated above...) on large open-air stages, where [i]all [/i]the sounds seem to dissipate (into thin air..? ). Maybe it's just me, though, although I doubt that; t'would be a 'first'..!

[Monkey Steve]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1497973996' post='3321749']
As I wrote above ^^, I'm more towards the 'deaf' end of the scale, but have, and never have had, any problems hearing the bass drum I'm playing (pretty standard 22", full drum heads both sides, Camco 5-piece kit...). There must be quite a racket going on all around to drown out a bass drum, even when playing more lightly, except (again, as stated above...) on large open-air stages, where [i]all [/i]the sounds seem to dissipate (into thin air..? ). Maybe it's just me, though, although I doubt that; t'would be a 'first'..!
[/quote]

All i can think is that either it's a definite "thing" in some drummer circles, that mic'ing up the BD is the done thing (a drummers equivalent of those here that insist that Fenders must have flats, etc), or that they've had some unfortunate experience (either comments about their BD not being heard or listening back to a tape of a gig or rehearsal) and are trying to solve it with the mic.

ah well, it's the mysteries of life that make it so interesting...

[TimR]

There's probably a hundred thousand drummers out there all playing differently. Trying to stereotype them is probably not going to come to any answers.

Any instrument we put through the PA is only to produce an even sound.a little bit of guitar and a little bit of bass drum to carry sound that would otherwise just get absorbed by the front row of the audience.

You could always mic up the Fender Rumble 60.

[xgsjx]

I think 60 watts isn't the issue, but more the driver/cab side of the combo not being designed to be played loud.

It's interesting reading about the kick drum issue. I noticed it at our last jam. Though bass & guitar were a bit on the loud side.

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1497957763' post='3321578']
it's probably something to do with present fashion of having the bass drum very prominent in the mix, drives me daft, it used to be the snare drum at one time, a good drum kit is an acoustic instrument designed so all the bits are at the right volume, it's a bit like us bass players insisting that one of our strings should be louder than the other three
[/quote]

I reckon in situations like that that the drummer should have the bass drum taken off him.

The bass player can then wear the bass drum on his back with a pedal attachment like in the one-man-bands of olden times. Makes perfect sense and is a fairer division of labour. The drummer and the rest of the band can then hear the bass drum as it is now at ear level.

No?

[cheddatom]

[quote name='phil.c60' timestamp='1497973090' post='3321741']
Or, use one of these: www.porteranddavies.co.uk/products/bc-gigster/. Specifically designed so the drummer can hear (well feel, to be more accurate) the bass drum when playing quietly. Works for our drummer. He doesn't use it at all gigs, but does on the ones where we have a real noise issue and we really have to rein it in.
[/quote]

I find these really uncomfortable

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='phil.c60' timestamp='1497973090' post='3321741']
Or, use one of these: www.porteranddavies.co.uk/products/bc-gigster/. Specifically designed so the drummer can hear (well feel, to be more accurate) the bass drum when playing quietly. Works for our drummer. He doesn't use it at all gigs, but does on the ones where we have a real noise issue and we really have to rein it in.
[/quote]

Like having a bass drum up the bum. A proper kick up the ar5e.