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Vanderkley are better than Barefaced cabs, right?!


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#61 Muzz

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Posted 10 July 2017 - 03:38 PM

I've sat/leaned on my BF cab(s) plenty without giving it a thought. In fact I've never given a thought to sitting on any cab. Nor have I ever encountered anyone who has given a thought (other than manners-wise) to sitting on any cab. It seems a spurious worry to me. Next we'll be discussing how flammable BF cabs are... <_<
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#62 Al Krow

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Posted 10 July 2017 - 04:01 PM

View PostMuzz, on 10 July 2017 - 03:38 PM, said:

Next we'll be discussing how flammable BF cabs are... <_<

https://youtu.be/yl8OUZX-7KA

And these guys didn't even have a bass player!!

...but on a more serious note, I think we have established that folks' concerns raised on this and other threads about the fragility of BF cabs (the sitting on which being a simple proxy measure of build strength) is one we can dismiss from all the feedback received to date, from the heavy-weight bass players in our august company. And it would definitely be good to move on from that point, albeit one that has caused a certain amount of lighthearted banter and mirth to my fellow bassists, which on a hot July summer's day is probably no bad thing...

Edited by Al Krow, 10 July 2017 - 04:10 PM.

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#63 Phil Starr

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 07:39 AM

View PostCount Bassy, on 09 July 2017 - 10:58 PM, said:

I have found myself saying the same thing about my Vanderkley 112MNT, and yet it occurs to me that it is a funny thing to assert because how can anyone know this? (short of plugging the signal at various points (Including a very good and well positioned microphone) into an oscilloscope or some other bit of electronic wizardry). Also, if it's desirable to have no colouration in in the speaker why is it allowed to have colouration in the amplifier?

At the end of the day it's the sum total of the instrument, amplifier and speaker that you hear, so you need to assess the whole lot with your ears and decide by what you like rather than anything else.

(all IMHO of course)
My test is that it should sound the way it does through good quality headphones, and you are right, use your ears and if the combination sounds good to you then you have found the cab for your set up.

#64 Conan

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 01:15 PM

View PostRoland Rock, on 10 July 2017 - 08:38 AM, said:

Just don't perch on the rear edge and tilt forwards, lest the wheels wheels scoot the cab backwards from under you, and you fall in an embarrassing heap.

Again :blush: :(
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#65 largo

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 05:48 PM

You pretty much nailed it in your original post. I used to own a couple of VK 210MNT cabs. Absolutely fantastic tone & build quality was top class. Now own a couple of BF One10s and tone is great (a single one10 certainly doesn't match a VK 2x10) but they are ultra lightweight. I know it's improved but I still don't think the finish quality matches other cabs in the price bracket.

The BF certainly won't collapse just because it's lightweight, really depends what's important to you.
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#66 Al Krow

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 09:38 PM

Again, thanks to everyone for their feedback to date. So what I've taken away so far is:

1. They are both great cab brands. Everyone who has owned one or the other seems to be a pretty "happy camper" with no one being unhappy with either choice.
2. Just 'cos BF are light and use 9mm ply, their robustness is not something anyone should worry about at all as they have great design and build quality.

A few of you have owned both or have A/B'd them, summary of your comments below:

View Postlargo, on 11 July 2017 - 05:48 PM, said:

You pretty much nailed it in your original post. I used to own a couple of VK 210MNT cabs. Absolutely fantastic tone & build quality was top class. Now own a couple of BF One10s and tone is great (a single one10 certainly doesn't match a VK 2x10) but they are ultra lightweight. I know it's improved but I still don't think the finish quality matches other cabs in the price bracket.

View PostSteve Browning, on 08 July 2017 - 06:54 AM, said:

I recently witnesed a a/b between the Berg and the Vanderkley. Both sounded great but I have also heard the Berg at a decent number of gigs (a good mate has one). It's an awesome cab. The Vanderkley was pretty close in sound (but it was a nice red colour!!).

View PostMusashimonkey, on 08 July 2017 - 07:34 AM, said:

I've been very happy with both Vanderklay and Barefaced cabs. I'm currently on Vanderklay as that was what was available at the time in the second hand market. But both brands offer excellent cabs. I'm sure you'll be happy with either.
The differences that I would note and consider would be slight weight difference (which gives a different structural feel to them), handle design, carpet vs painted finish, and aesthetics regarding grill, cloth, red or black.

View PostSteve Browning, on 08 July 2017 - 07:21 AM, said:

What about a trip to Bass Direct? Could be that all those choices are there, under one roof and the owner there has a reputation for blunt assessment.

The final bit of advice quoted from Steve is obviously spot on. I'll see if I can make a trip to Bass Direct at some point soon to try them both out with a variety of heads.

Actually I suspect a min 800W capacity is going to be plenty, right, in terms of matching the output of the vast majority of decent bass heads? In which case, I can narrow the choice down to:
VK 210 LNT 1200W, 44lbs, £925 delivered
BF BB2 (silver cloth) 800W, 26lbs(!!) £779 delivered

And if either come up FS in decent condition second hand, even better!

[TKS cabs clearly have a fair bit of love on here also. The comparable cab would be the 2126, 900W, but 63lbs and £1,050 which would rule it out on weight and cost. Plus the fact I'm not sure anywhere actually stocks them in the UK so trying out is going to be tricky].

Edited by Al Krow, 11 July 2017 - 09:42 PM.

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#67 Deedee

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 09:42 PM

View PostCuzzie, on 09 July 2017 - 12:13 PM, said:

Is this a band from the Shire.....?!


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#68 chris_b

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 10:56 PM

You'll have a tough time A/Bing these cabs in a shop. To my knowledge neither Bass Direct or Bass Gear ever carried Barefaced cabs.

The last time I was there the Bass Gallery had several different BF cabs in stock.
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#69 markstuk

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 07:49 AM

The one mod I have done to all my barefaced wheeled cabs is to fix some aluminium corner strip to the lower rear edge to protect against scrapes when wheeling them. Quick spray of black paint and job done..
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#70 Conan

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 10:48 AM

View PostAl Krow, on 11 July 2017 - 09:38 PM, said:

[TKS cabs clearly have a fair bit of love on here also. The comparable cab would be the 2126, 900W, but 63lbs and £1,050 which would rule it out on weight and cost. Plus the fact I'm not sure anywhere actually stocks them in the UK so trying out is going to be tricky].

I'm not sure that's a fair comparison as the 2126 is a 2x12 with a midrange driver... it is bound to be heavier and more expensive. The 1126 or H115 might be closer. The fact that the speaker in the H115 is 15" diameter makes little difference to the sound that the cab can produce, and at £579 and 14kg it is much closer to the other two (but cheaper!).

I have one of the previous spec and it is an excellent cab :) http://basschat.co.u..._hl__tks%20h115
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#71 BigRedX

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 12:10 PM

View PostAl Krow, on 11 July 2017 - 09:38 PM, said:

The final bit of advice quoted from Steve is obviously spot on. I'll see if I can make a trip to Bass Direct at some point soon to try them both out with a variety of heads.

TKS cabs clearly have a fair bit of love on here also. The comparable cab would be the 2126, 900W, but 63lbs and £1,050 which would rule it out on weight and cost. Plus the fact I'm not sure anywhere actually stocks them in the UK so trying out is going to be tricky.

IME trying out amps and cabs in a shop is about as much use as perusing the specs published by the manufacturers - almost none at all.

The only way you'll know if a cab is suitable for you needs is to use it in the context of your band at a couple of rehearsals and gigs.

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#72 wateroftyne

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 12:13 PM

View PostBigRedX, on 12 July 2017 - 12:10 PM, said:

IME trying out amps and cabs in a shop is about as much use as perusing the specs published by the manufacturers - almost none at all.

The only way you'll know if a cab is suitable for you needs is to use it in the context of your band at a couple of rehearsals and gigs.

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#73 Al Krow

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 01:45 PM

Guys you're probably right about the value of A/B'ing stuff in a store vs trying it out in anger in a band context. But I guess in terms of initial decision making, honest feedback from fellow BCers and having a try out in a studio has gotta be better than buying blind? That being the case and the fact I can only try out VK at Bass Direct, I may need to take your kind offer up Grangur (again!) to get a feel for what a BF cab sounds and feels like?

View PostGrangur, on 10 July 2017 - 08:55 AM, said:

I've got a BF One10 if you're interested in trying one out. I too have used BF for ages. The others mentioned here have sounded as good to me, but not better.

Chris came up with the following point on another thread, which is directly relevant here (and a really helpful additional insight).

View Postchris_b, on 12 July 2017 - 09:08 AM, said:

Careful, there seems to be 2 different measuring systems at work here. The 1200 watts of the 210LNT is not RMS. It's AES which, while it's supposed to be the more accurate figure, is actually less than the RMS figure. A quote I've seen is that 800 watts AES is the equivalent to 600 watts RMS.

Assuming that 25% discount on "AES watts" is correct, that would make the 210LNT 900W RMS which then lines it up very closely to the BF BB2 at 800W in terms of power handling capacity.

Edited by Al Krow, 12 July 2017 - 01:51 PM.

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#74 markstuk

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 01:53 PM

If you go to bass direct I'm only 15 mins away and have a bf BT2 you're more than welcome to try. Also some berg ae210s which I might be getting rid of..
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#75 Conan

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 02:19 PM

View PostBigRedX, on 12 July 2017 - 12:10 PM, said:

The only way you'll know if a cab is suitable for you needs is to use it in the context of your band at a couple of rehearsals and gigs.

Agreed. that's the value of buying used from the BC marketplace. Buy a cab, try it out for a few weeks, and if it doesn't quite work for you, you should be able to sell it on again for about the same as what you bought it for. It's almost like hiring gear for free... ! :)

The only down-side is the frustrating wait for the right gear to come up - but you can always try something else in the meantime.

For example:
http://basschat.co.u...erkley-112-mnt/
http://basschat.co.u..._1#entry3329251
http://basschat.co.u..._1#entry3329938
http://basschat.co.u..._1#entry3312607

It's quite funny reading back through some of the sale threads. People raving about gear and saying how they will never move it on. Three months later.... :lol:

Edited by Conan, 12 July 2017 - 02:23 PM.

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#76 Al Krow

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 02:52 PM

View Postmarkstuk, on 12 July 2017 - 01:53 PM, said:

If you go to bass direct I'm only 15 mins away and have a bf BT2 you're more than welcome to try. Also some berg ae210s which I might be getting rid of..

That sounds great, thanks! I've been planning a trip with Osiris for a little while as he is also local to Bass Direct, so we should definitely link up nearer the time. I'll pm you to set something up (probably in Sept when we're all back from various hols). If you also join us at BD we can maybe do a three person joint review of the different cabs and report back? "The definitive BCers guide" :)

Edited by Al Krow, 12 July 2017 - 02:52 PM.

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#77 dave_bass5

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 02:11 PM

my thoughts. At this price level i dont think its a case of whats better, but what sounds better to your ears.
As some know ive had two BF cabs, a Retro 210 and BB2. Both very good cabs, but once the novelty wore off i found neither worked for me. I read all the tech stuff on the BF website, and was convinced i had found my last ever cab in the BB2. As it turns out i found it lacking a lot of what i was expecting, although at no point did it ever sound bad or lacking enough to do the job. It just didnt offer the tone i wanted. Since i got rid of it and got a Vanderkely 1x15 ive never had cause to complain.
As others have said, you really need to try both and not rely on specs or blurb, as you can end up with not getting the tone you want, no matter how much money you throw at it.


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#78 wateroftyne

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 02:16 PM

View Postdave_bass5, on 13 July 2017 - 02:11 PM, said:

As others have said, you really need to try both and not rely on specs or blurb, as you can end up with not getting the tone you want, no matter how much money you throw at it.

Yep - horses for courses. It took me years to realise I didn't want a cab that sounded like a big studio monitor. I wanted it to sound like a classic bass cab.
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#79 Sibob

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 02:44 PM

Yup, try both in a live environment (i.e. at a gig), the only way to truly know which you prefer! Anything else is just other peoples preferences.

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#80 dave_bass5

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 02:46 PM

View Postwateroftyne, on 13 July 2017 - 02:16 PM, said:

Yep - horses for courses. It took me years to realise I didn't want a cab that sounded like a big studio monitor. I wanted it to sound like a classic bass cab.

Same here. I found i wanted character, not just a clear tone.


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#81 stevie

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 02:50 PM

I totally agree with Dave. Just don't let anyone tell you what you should like. But back to the subject of robustness for just a minute.....

Surprising that people think a cabinet is sturdy just because they can sit upon it - or because it doesn't collapse in a heap when they put it in the boot of their car. Even my hi-fi speakers pass that test, and I certainly wouldn't take them out on the road. No - pro-equipment is supposed to be more rugged than that, especially equipment intended for a touring environment. Pro gear should withstand shock, vibration and temperature extremes - and still keep on working. Dropping a cabinet on concrete (especially on the corners) is normally sufficient to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Not everyone is bothered about having bombproof gear, but if ruggedness is a concern, buy a cabinet made from 18mm birch and accept that it will not be light. There are plenty available from the likes of EBS, Ashdown, Mesa Boogie, Bergantino, Aguilar, etc. If you buy a cab made out of 9mm poplar, it will be much lighter, but don't kid yourself (or others) that will also be rugged, even if you have put it in your boot 200 times. For many people the sensible solution will lie somewhere between the extremes. There is lots of choice out there and only you know what your priorities are. You have to live with it.

The Vanderkley NeoLites seem to use a combination of poplar and birch ply, the latter most likely for the baffle. That's a very sensible engineering choice for a lightweight design IMO, because the weight penalty of using birch on the baffle is relatively small and the benefits considerable. They're not the only bass cab manufacturer to do this.
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#82 stevie

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 02:53 PM

View Postwateroftyne, on 13 July 2017 - 02:16 PM, said:

Yep - horses for courses. It took me years to realise I didn't want a cab that sounded like a big studio monitor. I wanted it to sound like a classic bass cab.

Your prerogative. I want a big f*off studio monitor sound. Doesn't mean I'm right and you're wrong, or vice versa.
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#83 wateroftyne

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 02:54 PM

View Poststevie, on 13 July 2017 - 02:53 PM, said:

Your prerogative. I want a big f*off studio monitor sound. Doesn't mean I'm right and you're wrong, or vice versa.

What an odd response to a completely non-judgemental comment...
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#84 stevie

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 02:58 PM

Nothing odd about it at all. I didn't consider your comment to be judgemental. I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say, WoT. That is, when it comes to sound, we don't all look for the same thing - nor should we. (Maybe I should spent more time crafting my messages). :)

Edited by stevie, 13 July 2017 - 03:01 PM.

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#85 wateroftyne

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 03:02 PM

View Poststevie, on 13 July 2017 - 02:58 PM, said:

Nothing odd about it at all. I didn't consider your comment to be judgemental. I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say, WoT. That is, when it comes to sound, we don't all look for the same thing - nor should we. (Maybe I should spent more time crafting my messages). :)

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 03:06 PM

View Postwateroftyne, on 13 July 2017 - 02:54 PM, said:

What an odd response to a completely non-judgemental comment...
Apart from the implied expletive it seems balanced to me. re-write it "You like A, I like B does not mean either is right or wrong."

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 03:09 PM

Exactly! Thanks Chienmortbb.
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Posted 13 July 2017 - 05:01 PM

View Postdave_bass5, on 13 July 2017 - 02:11 PM, said:

my thoughts. At this price level i dont think its a case of whats better, but what sounds better to your ears.
As some know I've had two BF cabs, a Retro 210 and BB2. Both very good cabs, but once the novelty wore off I found neither worked for me. I read all the tech stuff on the BF website, and was convinced i had found my last ever cab in the BB2. As it turns out i found it lacking a lot of what i was expecting, although at no point did it ever sound bad or lacking enough to do the job. It just didn't offer the tone i wanted. Since I got rid of it and got a Vanderkely 1x15 ive never had cause to complain.
As others have said, you really need to try both and not rely on specs or blurb, as you can end up with not getting the tone you want, no matter how much money you throw at it.

That's really interesting as someone who has tried out both a BB2 (one of my shortlist cabs) and a VK cab in a rehearsal and gigging situation over a period of time. Can I push you on this just a bit more please - as it will give me a bit of a steer on what to listen out for? What was it about the BF that didn't quite cut it? Was it just too transparent (dare I say "sterile") / studio monitor like for you? How does the VK differ?

I'm just wondering whether the tonal analogy of a MB combo (transparent) and Mesa combo (creamy / rich) might be a good one and help me to aurally "visualise" the point you're getting at? Fyi - I love the Mesa for home use practising, when it's just me, but the MB cuts it just fine in a band context (and frankly at 80lbs the Mesa combo is not getting a look in when it comes to being carted about! But for me it's nevertheless a keeper...)

And Stevie, I agree with you (I suspect we all do) that when it comes to tone there is no "right" answer!
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Posted 13 July 2017 - 05:04 PM

View PostAl Krow, on 13 July 2017 - 05:01 PM, said:

That's really interesting as someone who has tried out both a BB2 (one of my shortlist cabs) and a VK cab in a rehearsal and gigging situation over a period of time. Can I push you on this just a bit more please - as it will give me a bit of a steer on what to listen out for? What was it about the BF that didn't quite cut it? Was it just too transparent (dare I say "sterile") / studio monitor like for you? How does the VK differ?

I'm just wondering whether the tonal analogy of a MB combo (transparent) and Mesa combo (creamy / rich) might be a good one and help me to aurally "visualise" the point you're getting at? Fyi - I love the Mesa for home use practising, when it's just me, but the MB cuts it just fine in a band context (and frankly at 80lbs the Mesa combo is not getting a look in when it comes to being carted about! But for me it's nevertheless a keeper...)

And Stevie, I agree with you (I suspect we all do) that when it comes to tone there is no "right" answer!

At some point you're going to have trust your own ears :D
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Posted 13 July 2017 - 06:00 PM

View Postmarkstuk, on 13 July 2017 - 05:04 PM, said:

At some point you're going to have trust your own ears :D

Yes indeed, but I'm not going to have the luxury of trying out both cabs over a period of months in a live situation before deciding, so if one of my fellow BCers has already done so then it would be churlish not to hear what he has to say on the matter, to get a steer, before parting with the best part of £1k?

One other key point, following on from the comments above, is that it seems to me if we have tonal colour coming from the amp head, the bass and choice of PUPs (and a possible plethora of pedals) wouldn't we want our cabs to be pretty transparent, anyway? Is that a controversial statement?
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