JimBobTTD Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 There is an awful lot of conflicting information on the net about this. Does anyone here have any experience of importing a neck (or a whole instrument) from the US to Europe since the start of this year? I understand that the rules changed in January. Any information gratefully received. [I am looking to import a Warmoth neck. They have the accreditations and will provide certificates...I am looking for information about what I need to do. I want to import it to the UK.] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skybone Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 AFAIK, they should provide all the info needed to get it through customs. If in doubt, email them & ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimBobTTD Posted July 11, 2017 Author Share Posted July 11, 2017 Thanks - that is what I believe. But you can should in one hand and sh*t in the other, and see which one gets full first... Has anyone gone through this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorks5stringer Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 I tried to import a Squire Jag bass from the US that was listed as able to be sold into the UK with no further charges etc etc. Pressed the Buy button only to get an e Bay message saying 'not available in the UK'. Contacted the US seller who was not aware of Cites and when he read the details said he was not willing to sell to me. From what I remember there is an $80 fee for one off imports with a 2 month delay. Sellers who send lots of instruments can pay $200 up front and then just $30 per instrument. It might explain why Squire have so few Basses in their range currently... With a Warmoth, one would have thought they will be on top of it all: all you would do is pay! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Steve Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 (edited) As I understand it, it's not the fees that are the issue in isolation, it's the time and trouble involved in making the applications to get the certificate - effectively documenting every stage of the instrument's manufacture and being able to prove where the wood came from. Makes it impossible for sellers who simply won't have that information (although I believe that they can get a simpler documentation if they can prove that the manufacture pre-dates the new regulations). If Warmouth are happy to provide the cert then it should just be a matter of paying them and waiting for the neck to turn up once it's been through Customs - there's nothing that you can contribute to the certification process. As an aside, a friend of mine was discussing this with a very high end custom guitar maker, who's solution for any non-EU sales is to include the cost of a return ticket in the purchase price. In theory it solves the problem as you are allowed to take your own personal instruments overseas...but as the OP states, some of the stuff on the internet is a bit contradictory, not least because different countries are interpreting how this works, and it may still mean that some sort of certification for personal travel is required. So hold on to the certificate when it arrives Edited July 12, 2017 by Monkey Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimBobTTD Posted July 12, 2017 Author Share Posted July 12, 2017 I went ahead and ordered. Warmoth will sort out the necessary certificates for export. As I shall be importing, I shall need to sort out the import certificates. I shall update the thread when it is time. At least then, there will be a first-person account of importing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Steve Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 [quote name='JimBobTTD' timestamp='1499879849' post='3334296'] I went ahead and ordered. Warmoth will sort out the necessary certificates for export. As I shall be importing, I shall need to sort out the import certificates. I shall update the thread when it is time. At least then, there will be a first-person account of importing! [/quote] Great idea - all the commentaries I've seen say it's all about the export end that needs documents so it would be excellent to find out exactly what is involved Here's hoping it's not too painful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_c2 Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 I bought a Japanese bass with a rosewood fretboard and it arrived in about 10 days. No mention of the rosewood, or CITES, and no issues. I've seen other listings of Japan instruments where the seller explains due to CITES, that they need to apply for the exemption once its sold (it can't be done before its sold) then it will take 2-4 weeks, but mine went through okay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_c2 Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 [quote name='JimBobTTD' timestamp='1499879849' post='3334296'] Warmoth will sort out the necessary certificates for export. As I shall be importing, I shall need to sort out the import certificates. [/quote] What import certificates (perhaps Germany is different to UK)? I didn't do anything, except order it and pay for the customs tax/duty once it had arrived in the country pending final delivery to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimBobTTD Posted July 12, 2017 Author Share Posted July 12, 2017 [quote name='paul_c2' timestamp='1499882902' post='3334324'] What import certificates (perhaps Germany is different to UK)? I didn't do anything, except order it and pay for the customs tax/duty once it had arrived in the country pending final delivery to me. [/quote] I don't know - I shall have the neck sent to me here in Sweden (I had planned on having it sent to the UK). Both the UK and Sweden say that you need to apply for a certificate. But again...information is conflicting. I shall call the relevant authorities here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorks5stringer Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 [quote name='paul_c2' timestamp='1499882902' post='3334324'] What import certificates (perhaps Germany is different to UK)? I didn't do anything, except order it and pay for the customs tax/duty once it had arrived in the country pending final delivery to me. [/quote] Further to my USA Squire Jag story, I then found one in Germany on eBay which was sent with no problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjones Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 (edited) [quote name='JimBobTTD' timestamp='1499754868' post='3333274'] There is an awful lot of conflicting information on the net about this. Does anyone here have any experience of importing a neck (or a whole instrument) from the US to Europe since the start of this year? I understand that the rules changed in January. Any information gratefully received. [I am looking to import a Warmoth neck. They have the accreditations and will provide certificates...I am looking for information about what I need to do. I want to import it to the UK.] [/quote] I've imported quite a few necks from The Stratosphere in the States. But it seems they've stopped exporting because of the hassle. See Link [url="https://stratosphereparts.com/blog/regulations-for-rosewood-species/"]https://stratosphere...sewood-species/[/url] Edited July 13, 2017 by gjones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kodiakblair Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 [quote name='yorks5stringer' timestamp='1499940311' post='3334642'] Further to my USA Squire Jag story, I then found one in Germany on eBay which was sent with no problems. [/quote] There's "no borders" within the EU so technically there was no import/export going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oggiesnr Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 [quote name='kodiakblair' timestamp='1499980879' post='3335007'] There's "no borders" within the EU so technically there was no import/export going on. [/quote] However after March 2019 there will be so the situation will probably change. I'm currently in the same position with a rosewood ended concertina (built c1900) where I'm not in a position to provide a registration document or purchase invoice to show it was built from pre 2017 stocks. It's getting a little interesting proving the obvious. The best description of the new regs I came across was this one [url="https://www.avalonguitars.com/news/2017/02/What-You-Need-To-Know-About-The-New-CITES-Regulations"]https://www.avalonguitars.com/news/2017/02/What-You-Need-To-Know-About-The-New-CITES-Regulations.[/url] It is also worth pointing out that any instrument maker who is using rosewood from sustainable sources should already have a full FCS chain of provenance for the wood in their instruments. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellzero Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 Look the link below, everything is crystal clear : export permit and import permit are mandatory, so is re-export permit (travelling). Species in appendix I and II can't be traded withouts those permits, while there are some flexibilities for personal "items" in appendix III. Even if you trade inside the EEC, these permits are theorically mandatory, especially for apendix I species, you could be asked for them, think twice before selling your bass with a Brazilian rosewood fretboard (appendix I, under FLORA (PLANTS), Dabergia nigra)... It's not that complicated, but both parties have to provide their own permit, which can take some time on the buyer side : call your local customs and they'll explain you how it works and provide all the necessary documents. Here is the link to the official CITES documents and you better know latin : https://www.cites.org/eng/disc/text.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noisyjon Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 [quote name='JimBobTTD' timestamp='1499883576' post='3334331'] I don't know - I shall have the neck sent to me here in Sweden (I had planned on having it sent to the UK). Both the UK and Sweden say that you need to apply for a certificate. But again...information is conflicting. I shall call the relevant authorities here. [/quote] Hi JimBob, A bit of a thread resurrection here but how did you get on with your Warmoth CITES import situation in the end please? ATB, Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimBobTTD Posted October 7, 2017 Author Share Posted October 7, 2017 [quote name='Noisyjon' timestamp='1507373047' post='3385003'] Hi JimBob, A bit of a thread resurrection here but how did you get on with your Warmoth CITES import situation in the end please? ATB, Jon [/quote] I had to apply for a certificate as an importer. This could not be done before Warmoth had sorted an export certificate. I am currently waiting for my certificate. I shall post back when everything has been done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noisyjon Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 [quote name='JimBobTTD' timestamp='1507404381' post='3385318'] I had to apply for a certificate as an importer. This could not be done before Warmoth had sorted an export certificate. I am currently waiting for my certificate. I shall post back when everything has been done. [/quote] Wow, OK and thanks for the update. Good luck and look forward to hearing all about it! Cheers, Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimBobTTD Posted November 25, 2017 Author Share Posted November 25, 2017 On 07/10/2017 at 22:35, Noisyjon said: I had to apply for a certificate as an importer. This could not be done before Warmoth had sorted an export certificate. I am currently waiting for my certificate. I shall post back when everything has been done. Wow, OK and thanks for the update. Good luck and look forward to hearing all about it! Cheers, Jon Got the neck today. First, I had to wait for Warmoth to get the certificate for export (unknown time...it took 2 months to make everything and get the certificates). Then I called the Swedish Jordbruksverket, who are the folks here who deal with CITES certificates. I made them work for it, going through everything with them on the phone whilst I filled out the form...well, they charge £35 for it, so I feel no guilt. This took longer than it should have (40 days). When I finally got the certificate, I told Warmoth and they posted it to me. A look at the box tells me that plastic window containing documents has been opened and the contents removed. Was this the CITES material? I have no idea. There is nothing on the box to tell me that the whole process I went through was necessary (NOTE: from a legal point of view, it is necessary). Anyway, I have it now, so all is well. Now to wait for the body to arrive, send it all off for painting, and then wait for that to be done. I celebrate the 15th anniversary of turning 25 in January, but I doubt that the bass will be ready in time for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noisyjon Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 On 11/25/2017 at 14:12, JimBobTTD said: Got the neck today. First, I had to wait for Warmoth to get the certificate for export (unknown time...it took 2 months to make everything and get the certificates). Then I called the Swedish Jordbruksverket, who are the folks here who deal with CITES certificates. I made them work for it, going through everything with them on the phone whilst I filled out the form...well, they charge £35 for it, so I feel no guilt. This took longer than it should have (40 days). When I finally got the certificate, I told Warmoth and they posted it to me. A look at the box tells me that plastic window containing documents has been opened and the contents removed. Was this the CITES material? I have no idea. There is nothing on the box to tell me that the whole process I went through was necessary (NOTE: from a legal point of view, it is necessary). Anyway, I have it now, so all is well. Now to wait for the body to arrive, send it all off for painting, and then wait for that to be done. I celebrate the 15th anniversary of turning 25 in January, but I doubt that the bass will be ready in time for that. Thanks for the update JimBob and that is quite a process! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maude Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 Slightly off topic, sorry. Would I need to go through this if I were to buy a bass from China? Thinking about buying something from Ali Express as a base for extensive modding but don't want to go through this palaver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 Wow, having read this I'm just glad I prefer one-piece maple necks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimBobTTD Posted November 28, 2017 Author Share Posted November 28, 2017 (edited) 6 hours ago, Maude said: Slightly off topic, sorry. Would I need to go through this if I were to buy a bass from China? Thinking about buying something from Ali Express as a base for extensive modding but don't want to go through this palaver. If the neck contains rosewood, yes. Edit to add: But I would avoid it. The whole reason rosewood is on the endangered species list is due to China's insatiable appetite for rosewood furniture. If you buy an instrument from there, they will likely forge the documents to avoid needing to have a CITES certificate or just hope for the best. This might lead to your bass being seized by Customs and destroyed, although likely nothing will happen. There was an interesting thread on MyLesPaulForum of a chap whose guitar was held by UPS because the seller in the US had CITES certificates but the buyer did not. The guitar was eventually released. Truth be told, the process was not as monstrous as I had thought. It led to monstrous delays, yes, but nothing worse than that. I do not see how anyone could buy a bass of eBay and have everything arranged within the feedback window, though. Rosewood is endangered, so perhaps we should be looking at one-piece maple necks. I do not see a problem with applying for a CITES certificate and waiting longer. I wanted a Warmoth neck with a rosewood fingerboard. There is no other way of making one without using rosewood. If I just wanted one with a dark fingerboard, there are alternatives that are not considered endangered. Ebony is still considered ok. Edited November 28, 2017 by JimBobTTD I am fantastic 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maude Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 Thanks for the reply JimBob, if I do decide to get something I'll go for maple then I think, save a load of hassle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noisyjon Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Thread resurrection! Has anyone gone through the motions of getting a permit to Import Rosewood into the UK through official channels? From what I can decipher it costs £75 for the import permit!?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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