paulmcnamara Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 http://stories.ultimateears.com/why-in-ear-monitors/lower-stage-volumes-mean-better-shows/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 Makes sense, we only ever have gig backline at the same volume as rehearsals, if necessary I can play fine without hearing myself too well, as long as I can hear lead vox & lead guitar I`m fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Dare Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 Good sense. Shame so few do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiophonic Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 I wish. "The way to solve this and to play your best is to use in-ear monitors". No. The way to solve this is to have a sound engineer who has a clue. Tech is only ever a helping hand. My band don't have a drum kit, but try explaining to a house sound guy that this means the wedges don't have to compete with a snare drum. I've played gigs with my rig turned to zero before now because house sound guy won't do his job, listen and think. Instead they try and [i]make[/i] the cajon as loud as a kick drum, then crank everything else to match it: [i]et voila [/i]tinnitus and feedback[i]. [/i] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 [quote name='radiophonic' timestamp='1499889779' post='3334388'] I wish. "The way to solve this and to play your best is to use in-ear monitors". No. The way to solve this is to have a sound engineer who has a clue. Tech is only ever a helping hand. My band don't have a drum kit, but try explaining to a house sound guy that this means the wedges don't have to compete with a snare drum. I've played gigs with my rig turned to zero before now because house sound guy won't do his job, listen and think. Instead they try and [i]make[/i] the cajon as loud as a kick drum, then crank everything else to match it: [i]et voila [/i]tinnitus and feedback[i]. [/i] [/quote] So if you had in ears you could do your perfect own mix in rehearsals then at the gigs you'd get a consistent perfect fold back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjones Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 The guitarist in my band has a 15 watt valve amp. He's very well trained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiophonic Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1499891941' post='3334408'] So if you had in ears you could do your perfect own mix in rehearsals then at the gigs you'd get a consistent perfect fold back. [/quote] Our rehearsal sound is living-room loud and doesn't require 'mixing'. We can just hear everything. No drum-kit makes a huge difference. We certainly don't need in-ears. If the wedges are matched to the necessary output of the loudest thing on the stage - rather than assuming we need 110 dB of snare drum - everyone can hear everything. It works every time the sound engineer uses their brain and therefore fails 90% of the time but not because of tech. We are a band who need to be amplified FOH, not on stage. It's an ongoing problem when you share bills on the Guit/Bass/Drum/Vox circuit. I've heard us described as a 'nightmare'. We really aren't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazzbass Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 electric drum kits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 [quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1499868862' post='3334183'] Makes sense, we only ever have gig backline at the same volume as rehearsals, [/quote] We do as well. Sadly I need earplugs for rehearsals as well. We are so loud and it appears there is nothing I can do about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Hell yes. I was in a motown band once, that a couple of other basschatters have been in since, where I left because the drummer was too loud. We actually played tighter when he played with some restraint because we could hear the attack of each other's notes. But next song, he went back to beating 7 shades out of them...and he had hearing issues too. I left out of exasperation. I've played a couple of gigs in a resort/hotel conservatories and at the top of the Gherkin in London which all had the acoustics of a glass jar. We had to turn ourselves down just to stop the reverb washing the mix out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delberthot Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 I played for years with someone who I thought was a great drummer. Anyway he had a midlife crisis and I've fallen out with him forever but - we got ourselves a new drummer and she has an incredible touch and feel, playing all of the parts exactly as they should be played without having to resort to hammering the hell out of her kit whilst playing far too fast which our last drummer was also notorious for. It means that I no longer have to wear ear plugs and we can have a sensible volume on stage. Everyone is happy and we can hear each other. As mentioned in a previous thread, I depped with a band where I had to have my GK 700RB II absolutely cranked through 2 Ashdown ABM410s just to be able to hear myself on stage. Really unnecessary to have to be that loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japhet Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Our drummer recently got himself a DW kit. I preferred his old Yamaha kit, not least because we could control the overall volume much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Dean Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Yep the last few bands I've been with could do with reading this ...A friend of mine is a sound engineer for touring bands & I was going to organise a band trip so they could hear the onstage volume of some of these touring bands ..they would have been surprised . I'm fed up with "It's got to be that volume to get the sound " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 [quote]The way to solve this and to play your best is to use in-ear monitors....[i]*snip*[/i] it is the only way to lower your stage volume. [/quote] No it isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jus Lukin Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 (edited) - Edited February 25, 2022 by Jus Lukin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 [quote name='Kiwi' timestamp='1499929960' post='3334525'] I've played a couple of gigs in a resort/hotel conservatories and at the top of the Gherkin in London which all had the acoustics of a glass jar. We had to turn ourselves down just to stop the reverb washing the mix out. [/quote] We did a gig in a shiney floored, walled and ceilinged pub the other day. Everything fed back. Turned everything down, monitors down, all reverb and the like off on the mixer, and ended up with quite a poor mix, or so I thought. Turned out listening to recordings it was the best we had sounded. It will still be flat out next time we are out though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassmayhem Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 The most important thing is to have good sound on all instruments, meaning they don't overlap and steal everyone elses frequencies and space in music. Good rehearsed band and good arrangements make a lot for the overall sound on stage. Hold your horses and play with your ears - not your guts. I like to have "a little more volume than needed" which allows me to lay back a bit and I don't have to push to hear myself. That means by no way loud, just loud enough to play and hear everyone else. We try to keep down the volume when rehearsing too. Tonewise, I tend to go "flat", but generally scoop out around 1 kHz, where vocals tend to be, and to not interfere with cymbals and stuff. Also cut some of the lowest low. The kick drum in our band always sounds like the kick drum itself, just louder. Not like an empty oil tanker colliding with an iceberg. Mostly we do our own sound check and play through our PA without a tech; it always work. I go wireless and walk out in the local to listen. When we have a tech, things start to get complicated, as always... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chienmortbb Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 (edited) [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1499891941' post='3334408'] So if you had in ears you could do your perfect own mix in rehearsals then at the gigs you'd get a consistent perfect fold back. [/quote ][/quote] That works if you have a sound tech/person (sound engineer is an oxymoron). I saw (heard) a band recently that were self mixing. They used in-ears and must have spent 15-20 minutes getting the foldback correct. No one ever came out front. The sound sucked and the biggest culprit was the bass. They were using two really big JBL cabinets for PA and the bass drowned out everything. Edited July 13, 2017 by Chienmortbb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 [quote name='Chienmortbb' timestamp='1499960990' post='3334861'] That works if you have a sound tech/person (sound engineer is an oxymoron). I saw (heard) a band recently that were self mixing. They used in-ears and must have spent 15-20 minutes getting the foldback correct. No one ever came out front. The sound sucked and the biggest culprit was the bass. They were using two really big JBL cabinets for PA and the bass drowned out everything. [/quote] I don't think you can blame the technology for that though can you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scalpy Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Supported a band on all on ears the other day. The event was a outdoor multi band job, family day out type of thing. Technically perfect, no backline, line 6 helixes all round and more electronic toys than humanly feasible, in fact, they failed to draw a crowd as I believe no one realised a band was actually on stage. Sometimes you need a fire breathing rock n roll band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepbass5 Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 I'm with Bassmayhem - that's musicianship Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chienmortbb Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1499975982' post='3334970'] I don't think you can blame the technology for that though can you? [/quote]I don't blame the technology. I blame the band, they were more worried about their own monitor s sound than the audience. I have nothing against in ears per se. However for me an electric bass/electric guitar without an amp is like an acoustic without a sound box. That does not mean I need to blow the sound barrier. I am using 100 watts into my Basschat 1x12 and on my last dep job was asked to turn down, which of course I did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassjim Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 I have come to the conclusion that the quality of the musician and respect for volume, dynamics, what works best where and when and overall awareness of the gig as its happening, like experience, differs from one to the next. I have gigs where the some of the band that use IEM disappear into their own little worlds and disconnect from whats going on around them loosing all perspective. In fact several times I have had to give them a nudge or a kick to point out something otherwise obvious. There are some musicians I know, that if they turned up with IEM and put them selves in the PA ect I would trust their actions completely as I already know, with much confidence, that they know exactly what they are doing. There are some venues that sound messy no matter what is or isn't in your ears or the PA or back line. We played a function at the Grand in Brighton last week and it was like playing in a Cathedral. Thankfully the punters loved it and were up dancing in front all night but which helped a lot but still not really an ideal room to play in. Agreed in buckets, its not the tech but the user. Sometimes I wish some of this tech just wasn't there in the first place. Its been more trouble than its worth IME. Even if the whole band are on board with it it still seems to me that you need someone within the band, or a sound guy with a fair amount of real experience and good knowledge to lead the way. I guess I just haven't been lucky enough so far as so many, with very good reasons, are very pro IEM as a volume solution. I'm still into turning it all down and asking the drummer, when necessary, to watch it on the snare drum. IMO thats' where the volume problem usually starts. It would be good if they could get a snare that just didnt take over when they hit it at the velocity they need to get the sound they want. Like an electronic kit but the same feel as an acoustic one. Hmmm........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 Our last drummer had a JoBecky drum kit, looks and feels like a drum kit but it's electronic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 the article is common sense, it's annoying not everyone understands why loud stage noise is bad. Drummers I can kind of forgive as it's just poor technique but guitarists is one knob... and don't witter on at me about 'tone' as you point your mono directional speaker at your ankles. ... IEM are a different kettle of fish - and with a decent setup and sound team can be great. Often not though- again not so good musicians can very easily not listen to what they need to and zone out into their own wee world. [quote name='gjones' timestamp='1499892352' post='3334413'] The guitarist in my band has a 15 watt valve amp. He's very well trained. [/quote] Sensible I think. I never forget lugging my old guitarists 2x12 fender valve amp up and down stairs with him - took two of us to lift it. We then supported this irish band who had a very very similar guitar sound... by sticking a mic in front of wee a blues jr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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