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Stereo setup for bass practice AND listening to music


lurkingbass
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Hi everyone.
So basically I want to build a budget minimalist home stereo setup that will be hooked up to PC. Both for playing bass and listening to music from PC.
Not a Hi-Fi setup, but a dedicated stereo bass amp and 2 bookshelf speakers with lets say 6-7'' drives and a tweeter.
Power between 100-150W.

Bass sound is more important, so is there anything on market such as this, or could it be improvised to get good combo?
Thanks!

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Sounds like a very odd set-up to me. Listening to CDs or Spotify through a bass amp is going to fall some way short of high fidelity reproduction, and having 100-150W driving it means that your neighbours had better be deaf.

And I can't remember ever seeing a "stereo bass amp".

Try buying a small PA mixer plus a pair of small, powered PA cabs.

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I saw PJB 100W combo Session 77 and it can reproduce everything between 30Hz and 20KHz, so there probably are bass amps that have full or at least very good range.
I don't care much about lets say 17KHz and above, my only concern is to be able to connect stereo speakers to it and hook everything up to PC.

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I went the other way. I use a [url=https://uk.focusrite.com/usb-audio-interfaces/scarlett-2i2]Scarlett 2i2[/url] plugged into a USB port as my bass interface to the PC. This then goes to an [url=https://www.amptastic.com/]Amptastic Mini 1[/url] and a pair of Q Acoustics 2020i. So not high power by any means, but I use it mostly for PC audio/music listening while working, but I also am able to plug the bass in to the 2i2 and practice at my desk.

So maybe a 2i2 or similar plus a beefier amp and speaker setup might work for you? Loads of cheap old stereo amps around - in fact a stereo PA power amp would work a treat.

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[quote name='lurkingbass' timestamp='1500977334' post='3341391']
Hi everyone.
So basically I want to build a budget minimalist home stereo setup that will be hooked up to PC. Both for playing bass and listening to music from PC.
Not a Hi-Fi setup, but a dedicated stereo bass amp and 2 bookshelf speakers with lets say 6-7'' drives and a tweeter.
Power between 100-150W.

Bass sound is more important, so is there anything on market such as this, or could it be improvised to get good combo?
Thanks!
[/quote]

I would strongly suggest buying some decent active/powered 'studio speakers' that are designed to take the dynamics of such program material, rather than having separate speakers taking up more space. I play everything through mine: Guitars, Keyboards, Vocals, LOTS of bass and all of my digital music.*

*I should just add that I use mine as part of my studio set up for my day job too.

Edited by dood
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Thanks for suggestions.
I really want only amp + speakers. As for speakers, I can find by myself, probably older bookshelfs, not Hi-Fi. For starters I have a pair, later I can find better. I am not interested in Hi-Fi sound.
Amp is my main concern as it is most important to be good for playing bass, so it should be bass amp.

Since there are stereo bass combos out there, such as that Ashdown mentioned above, there has to be stereo bass amp only, to which I could connect speakers.
I hope to hear from someone who knows about that kind of bass amp, it is very hard to find online because related words are too general in music world.

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[quote name='lurkingbass' timestamp='1500986725' post='3341488']
Since there are stereo bass combos out there, such as that Ashdown mentioned above, there has to be stereo bass amp only, to which I could connect speakers.
[/quote]

You've already heard from 2 of the more knowledgeable members here. The reason you can't find anything on the internet is because stereo bass amps are as rare as hens teeth - Markbass Multiamp is one, but can't imagine you'd use it for what you're describing...

To add my tuppence worth I'd go with active studio monitors. I had a set of samson rubicon 6a monitors a few years back and they sounded excellent for music and bass (especially with some sort of amp modelling in the signal path)

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[quote name='Bigwan' timestamp='1500987956' post='3341503']
You've already heard from 2 of the more knowledgeable members here. The reason you can't find anything on the internet is because stereo bass amps are as rare as hens teeth - Markbass Multiamp is one, but can't imagine you'd use it for what you're describing...

To add my tuppence worth I'd go with active studio monitors. I had a set of samson rubicon 6a monitors a few years back and they sounded excellent for music and bass (especially with some sort of amp modelling in the signal path)
[/quote]

Yup, agreed. LurkingBass, The problem with practice amplifiers when it comes to bass is more often the speakers than the amplifier, thus, putting the money used for both sets towards one decent set of speakers makes lots of sense as well as saving space.

My 'hifi' set up is more than capable of annoying the neighbours when I put just my bass through and theres plenty of low end available that very few 'practice bass amps' stereo or otherwise can match. Which is probably another reason why you aren't finding a stand alone stereo bass amp fitting your description. There are better solutions out there for playing along to music.

Oh and secondhand will reward you with a pro set of monitors that you'll love for less cash.

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I need to be able to manipulate with raw bass sound when playing, and maybe connect pedals in future. And I need that on front panel, so that I can do whatever I want with sound while sitting and playing in front of my desk. At least low/high bass, low/high middle, and highs in general.
Active speakers mostly have basic functions which are located on sides or worse, on back. Also I can't connect pedals.

But lets say that I go on suggested option of active speakers. How do I get better control over raw sound and effects?
Is there some kind of mixer with built in DAC and effects (or connection for pedals) to which I could connect bass and active speakers?

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[quote name='lurkingbass' timestamp='1501000456' post='3341682']


But lets say that I go on suggested option of active speakers. How do I get better control over raw sound and effects?
Is there some kind of mixer with built in DAC and effects (or connection for pedals) to which I could connect bass and active speakers?
[/quote]

Yes there certainly is! What you require is an Audio Interface. They come in all shapes and sizes and offer the connections you need to send your raw bass tone in to your computer and out to your speakers mixed with whatever you are jamming along with.

Focusrite make absolutely brilliant interfaces. I have the Clarett 2Pre, but you needn't go to the premium end of their offerings as even the entry level devices are great too. They connect to the computer either by USB, Thunderbolt or FireWire and handle audio processing.

When it comes to superb bass amplifier sounds and any effects I care to add, then sure I plug my pedals directly in to the front panel, but I also use an incredible application called BIAS FX by Positive Grid - and pretty much every other app they offer too. The app models your signal path from your bass, through pedals and in to amplifiers, mic'd up. You can even mix two different amplifiers for dual-mono, stereo or bi-amp tonal capabilities. The great thing about the app is that it also will run as a plug-in in your DAW (recording software) too. I recorded an album last year and didn't touch a real amp once :)

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Thanks for explanation, that makes much more sense to me now.
So if understood you correctly, Focusrite Audio interfaces, connected to the PC and speakers, also acts as a DAC? But a real DAC, which bypass any onboard PC audio or audio card and converts raw digital to analog signal when listening to music?

And about that app that you are mentioning, would you also rate sound manipulation while playing bass as a superb? I mean if I want to boost or cut some frequencies, add some effects etc, while playing?

If all this is correct I would probably go in that direction, only it will be little harder for me to find appropriate active speakers because I like more older, warm sound over any Hi-Fi, and controls at least on side, not on back.
Thanks.

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I'm pretty sure what you're looking for doesn't exist in the form you want.

All audio interfaces are are essentially ADC and DAC in a fancy box. Focusrite seem good, but there are plenty of other makers. With this setup your "amp" controls will be in software, adjustable on screen of your PC - not physically unless you have some way of mapping the controls to an external control surface.

Do you own an ipad by any chance? I've just bought one and am using BIAS amp, Jamup and Garageband and the sounds available are VERY good indeed. Add a set of active monitors and you'd be set.

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[quote name='Bigwan' timestamp='1501052503' post='3342002']
I'm pretty sure what you're looking for doesn't exist in the form you want.
[/quote]

I think Bigwan is right. Seems like you're gonna have to make a compromise on something at some point. For starters, I'd suggest abandoning the idea of old/warm sounding bookshelf speakers for this purpose as they just aren't designed to be used as part of a bass amp setup. You'd be better off doing what Dood suggests above and getting a pair of proper studio monitors. They don't have to cost a whole lot of money. Then you can work with EQ in your music player to get close to the warm sound you like. I have 2 questions:

1 - what's your budget?

2 - what kind of computer will you be using for this setup?

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Another +1 for the Positive Grid software - I run mine on my iPad with a Line6 input box and headphones, but powered monitors would work fine. Cheap software, and lots of great amps/tones/fx, plus the ability to shift key or speed of playback independently, if that's needed. The Bias FX package is verrrry comprehensive, too: I've only really scratched the surface of it...

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[quote name='lurkingbass' timestamp='1501047513' post='3341976']
Thanks for explanation, that makes much more sense to me now.
So if understood you correctly, Focusrite Audio interfaces, connected to the PC and speakers, also acts as a DAC? But a real DAC, which bypass any onboard PC audio or audio card and converts raw digital to analog signal when listening to music?

And about that app that you are mentioning, would you also rate sound manipulation while playing bass as a superb? I mean if I want to boost or cut some frequencies, add some effects etc, while playing?

If all this is correct I would probably go in that direction, only it will be little harder for me to find appropriate active speakers because I like more older, warm sound over any Hi-Fi, and controls at least on side, not on back.
Thanks.
[/quote]

You are quite right. You can ignore the internal sound card as to be honest they aren't really up to the job of processing real time audio (few exceptions I'm sure). So, yes, you plug the interface in to the computer, your bass plugs in to the interface and the same for the speakers. It as you say does all the converting and your favourite music collection appears at your speakers in wonderful pristine sound. Interfaces allow a greater flexibility too and often come with a mixer application that will allow you to balance the volumes of your instrument and any other sources that may be connected, such as your iTunes/media player.

The application - yes, you'll have all of your amplifier controls in front of you on the screen. You want more drive, crank the gain, less treble, pull down that control. It's very cool. I might want a bit of stereo chorus washing across the left - to right 'image', or a tasty ping-pong delay bouncing between the speakers. I can do that. Then at a click of the save button I can come back the following day to exactly the same settings if I want, rather than having to plug all my external pedals in again. There are a few applications out there already offering different flavours of amplifiers, but I think PG is one of the very best. It has been compared to hardware processors such as Fractal's AxeFX and the Kemper Profiling Amplifier - in some cases it's a better option and sounds equally as good when set up well.

Finally, your speakers. Active studio monitors are designed so that you get to hear your reference material, your music with clarity. The good news is that if you want an old vintage sound, well, there are plenty of applications you can use to apply that character to your speakers. At least if you change your mind you can go back to the natural response of the speakers you have.

Oh and my suggestion for active speakers for bass guitar - unless you have a decent budget, 5" speakers are 'ok' but not that great. 6" if you can but the 8" will sound bigger and deeper. (The whole physical box will be bigger for a better sound etc etc etc)

Edited by dood
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Reading this thread it was not clear to me that the FX software (be it [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Bias or something else) was not running on the PC that was the music source and shouldn't because of latency. It's been a while since I was doing this kind of thing[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]so I was wondering if the latency issue had somehow been solved. From what I have found it seems not though?[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Wouldn't a really minimalist system would be a Zoom B3 (or similar) with an iPad into the aux, a bass, and headphones for monitoring?[/font][/color]

[quote name='dood' timestamp='1501057741' post='3342050']
Oh and my suggestion for active speakers for bass guitar - unless you have a decent budget, 5" speakers are 'ok' but not that great. 6" if you can but the 8" will sound bigger and deeper. (The whole physical box will be bigger for a better sound etc etc etc)
[/quote]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I'll also add my +1 to this - 8" does seem to be the tipping point[/font][/color]

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[quote name='r16ktx' timestamp='1501061831' post='3342121']
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Wouldn't a really minimalist system would be a Zoom B3 (or similar) with an iPad into the aux, a bass, and headphones for monitoring?[/font][/color]

[/quote]

I was going to say - like the OP I was looking for al all in one solution so I could play music and play bass at my desk. I ended up with quite a complicated system which works really well albeit using headphones rather than speakers. Basically:

Computer + Bass

--into--

VB99

--into--

HIFI
+
Headphones
+
TC BH800 into Tecamp Bassboard


This way I can use the VB99 as a controller for the music on my computer, feeding the bass to the bassboard for some bottom shaking and the rest to the hifi, and when I want to play bass I simply plug it in and switch to a bass patch on the VB99 instead of my HIFI setting (with bass input off). I get full stereo effects and sound through the headphones and can record everything in real time on the computer and take off my headphones to hear it from the HIFI instantly.

For a while I also ran two bass cabs in stereo from a power amp (also connected to the setup above) but found I much preferred using headphones. The cabs (SWR 4x8) sounded really good with music and bass, to be honest - though I can't recall ever being able to hear both at the same time very clearly.

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Thanks everyone for help, after all your suggestions and help, I am closest to idea of [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Clarett 2Pre + active monitors.[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I can make compromise here and deal with sound via apps (i prefer mouse clicking on big screen rather than tablets.[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]If in the end I wouldn't like this, hopefully I could connect some kind of EQ/effects box/pedal. But lets ignore that for now.[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Regarding my budget, it may sound stupid, but I have no idea. I am begginer and I want to save as much as I can, but I still want invest in something that would be good for a decade.[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I also need to buy new computer (at least most of components), and I am Windows user. Regarding Windows, please, it just isn't up for debate. I am not a pro and I will never be. I am perfectly happy Windows user and I know what and how to install to get bit perfect audio reproduction. I really won't became Apple user, so hopefully there won't be discussion regarding this.[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I only need to investigate and buy new motherboard which is approved for [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Clarett 2Pre because of thunderbolt connection issues that I was reading about.[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]So, I am not in a hurry. When I am finished with PC, then I can buy [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Clarett 2Pre. I have enough money for that two. I [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]have old 5.25'' active speakers and they will do for now, untill I find really good ones that I like.[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I am not yet sure how much I want to spend on monitors, I still need to sell some of my other stuff to know. But, suggestions accepted. I will be looking for a 8'' pair.[/font][/color]
:drinks:

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I have a set up for practicing/pc sound which is old but perfectly fine.

USB from pc into M-Audio Fast Track (I said it was old)
Output of Fast Track into stereo channel of small mixer
Bass into channel of small mixer
Output to (old) Yamaha hi-fi amp
Speakers are ancient Audio Electronic Studio 10 monitors

Job done and very inexpensive. Does the job perfectly and the mixer has a headphone output so I can use those if preferred. Not sure how 'modern' you need the various interfaces to be. No need for a dedicated bass amp that I can see.

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[quote name='lurkingbass' timestamp='1501078342' post='3342310']
Thanks everyone for help, after all your suggestions and help, I am closest to idea of [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Clarett 2Pre + active monitors.[/font][/color][/quote]

Like I said earlier in the thread, I use a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 (albeit into a power amp and passive speakers), which is one of the "entry level" units Dood referred to when suggesting the Clarett. At £129 rather than the £420 for the Clarett the money saved could get you a decent pair of active monitors.

For what you want it for, the 2i2 may be all you need: [url="http://blog.reddogmusic.co.uk/2015/07/03/whats-the-difference-between-the-focusrite-scarlett-and-clarett-interfaces/"]What’s the difference between the Focusrite Scarlett and Clarett interfaces?[/url]

EDIT: my 2i2 is a 1st generation one, and does just fine. You could pick up a [url=http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FREE-SHIPPING-Scarlett-2i2-1st-Gen-Grade-A-Refurb-/122569448144]refurbed one for £75[/url] if you wanted to dip your toe in the water before spending big.

Edited by RichardH
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Thanks for the heads up. I am not from UK and I won't be buying from abroad.
Here I have option of new [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 2nd gen for around [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]£[/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]140 and new Clarett is around 330. Still quite big difference in price.[/font][/color]

[font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif"][color="#282828"]That article makes sense, but what about latency? For example if I want to play 24/96 flac or even DSD audio in Foobar2000 for example, and play along on my bass using some apps you guys mentioned earlier, with lot of effects etc. and record all that, everything simultaneously.[/color][/font]
[font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif"][color="#282828"]Would I experience any lag or problems on Scarlett?[/color][/font]

Edited by lurkingbass
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Similar to guys above, I'd also suggest a pair of active monitors, plus some simple interface like Line6 UX1 or POD. Both monitors and interface can be easily found used for good prices. Advantage is that the monitors can actually faithfully represent your bass at relatively low "living room" volumes. I've been using old Line6 POD X3 with some Yamaha monitors (not sure about the exact model) and I'm very happy with the setup, it lets me play along the PC with near-zero latency with monitors or headphones and bass connected to POD and music coming from PC via USB and offers decent set of effects to compress and colour the bass. Near-zero latency, because it is actually made for live playing.

Regarding 24/96 and DSD - why are you concerned about those? I thought you mentioned earlier that Hi-Fi and anything over 17KHz was not the goal... The point here is that the dirt-cheap interfaces I mentioned can do 24/48 extremely well and it seems to be adequate solution to your use case. Sure, you can use more advanced interfaces that can do 24/96 or even DSD, but will it make a difference?

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OP. Why must the bass sound be put through the hi-fi speakers? Place a Blackstar Fly Bass amp between the stereo speakers - this appears the obvious way to go to me. The Fly is loud enough for home use and there is a volume control....

Out of curiosity, why are you so set against Hi-Fi? Any working hi-fi system will work for at least a decade and probably much longer. It's primary function is to replay music from whatever format(s) you have. It can accept the audio output from a TV satellite box, thus giving you better sound from your TV. And you can connect your XBox/similar thingies....

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