fftc Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 [quote name='Barking Spiders' timestamp='1501488802' post='3344893'] Despite pants like Bananarama and Timmy Mallett etc the 80s was a good time for pop. Much more varied than what's on offer today what with most writing and playing their own stuff e.g. Wham, Spandau's, Duran, ABC . Quite a lot of pop acts were on independent labels so weren't at the mercy of avaricious manipulators like Cowell plus there wasn't this TV culture of endless crap singing competitions spawning vanilla chart fodder. No, I'm not a rose tinted bespectacled old fart but Olly Murs isn't in the same class as George Michael. [/quote] Sorry, but I have to disagree with almost every assertion in this post. Bananarama weren't that bad. Music is more varied now, and there are tons of artists playing their own stuff. And Olly Murs might not be as good as George was, but Laura Marling probably is. I do agree about the TV 'talent' shows but I think that is a very narrow window on the modern 'pop' world. It staggers me how much variety is out there now. Granted, a lot of it is not to my taste at all. I can't get with any of the booty shaking stuff, and grime is another world entirely, but then I'm in my mid 40's so it wouldn't be right if I was into it! Doesn't detract from the fact that variety is out there. Take a look at some of the Mercury nominees over the last few years. Even just some of the artists who have been in discussion on this forum. Thundercat, Royal Blood, Rag n Bone man, Field Music. All current, all pop, all different! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 [quote name='mikel' timestamp='1501527862' post='3345316'] Depends what you mean by good. Define good music. [/quote] Definition is irrelevant and subjective. My point is that the belief that Level 42 is manufactured as a means of expression whereas Whigfield is pap is arbitrary. It's all manufactured pop, even if the purpose of it's manufacture is less immediately commercial. Ritchie Blackmore, Gregory Porter, Stevie Wonder, Van Morrison, Rick Astley, Metallica, Ed Sheeran, Duke Ellington, Janek Gwizdala ... they all want one thing. To move units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 [quote name='mikel' timestamp='1501527862' post='3345316'] Depends what you mean by good. Define good music. [/quote] If someone likes it then it's good , for them at least , even if that person was the creator of it or just one other person Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibob Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Define 'Pop'! Good luck Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Popular..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 (edited) That's my thought also, but how popular in sales before it's classed as pop , because it's below that line , it can't be failed pop , or is just that fact that the band who made it and their mum's like it enough to make it pop? Please forgive me in buzzing on post chemo steroids Edited July 31, 2017 by lojo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 (edited) We're back to the question: 'Popular with whom..?' Anyhow, here's the Oxford definition, which must be right... [color=#800080]ADJECTIVE[/color] [color=#800080]1 - Attributive: Relating to commercial popular music.[/color] [color=#800080]‘pop singers’[/color] [color=#800080]‘a pop concert’[/color] [color=#800080]2 - Derogatory attributive (especially of a scientific or academic subject): Made accessible to the general public; popularized.[/color] [color=#800080]‘pop psychology’[/color] [color=#800080]NOUN[/color] [color=#800080]1 - Mass noun: Commercial popular music, in particular accessible, tuneful music of a kind popular since the 1950s and sometimes contrasted with rock, soul, or other forms of popular music.[/color] [color=#800080]‘Their quasi-psychedelic pop is pleasantly uplifting and danceable.’[/color] [color=#800080]1.1 - dated count, noun: A pop record or song.[/color] Edited August 1, 2017 by Dad3353 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 This question is similar to "mod" as in "modernist" so is the guy in the zoot suit no longer a mod as the guy in the latest sports hoodie is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 I'd say that 'mod' still means 'mods and rockers' in the same way as 'in Roman times' means, by implication, the Roman Empire, not modern Rome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 What about a genre called "Roman Times Mod Pop" ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 [quote name='lojo' timestamp='1501554086' post='3345488'] What about a genre called "Roman Times Mod Pop" ? [/quote] No problem; bring it on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jus Lukin Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 (edited) - Edited March 1, 2022 by Jus Lukin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikel Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 [quote name='lojo' timestamp='1501543258' post='3345472'] If someone likes it then it's good , for them at least , even if that person was the creator of it or just one other person [/quote] My point exactly. There is no such thing as good or bad music, just music you like and music you don't like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibob Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 Saying pop simply means 'popular' (it's historical meaning I guess), completely invalidates the initial suggestion. There are SOOOOOO many bands/musicians as good as Level 42 technically (being the the example here) who also have good songs and are popular in their field. If you think there aren't, then you genuinely aren't looking hard enough and you should stop talking about it . If you're talking about Pop (capital P) as a genre then it's all about cycles isn't it, that said, it's all out the window now anyway. When Level 42 were in their heyday, you got in the charts by selling records, and people would only hear those records if you were on the radio or TV. Now it's also download sales and you can hear those songs via any thousands of methods on the internet. So comparing like-for-like is pointless. Sometimes they converge (i.e. major label money with actual good musicians), but not often, usually just individual artists who they think will sell a lot of units. Take Maroon 5 for example, they're all excellent musicians.....like really really good! But they write 'Pop' music, just because there's no slap bass or chorus effect on it....doesn't mean it's not as valid as Level 42 Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jus Lukin Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 (edited) - Edited March 1, 2022 by Jus Lukin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibob Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 [quote name='Jus Lukin' timestamp='1501767627' post='3347232'] Sorry. [/quote] Don't say sorry to me haha, say sorry to the plethora of incredible artists that apparently don't exist, and most importantly, to your ears Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrevorR Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 [quote name='Raymondo' timestamp='1501444064' post='3344722'] Mmmmm I think that's the point. I do not know how old you are but I am sixty and alongside all the "artists" That we all know and love...Beatles ,Stones ,led zeppelin...erm ...Maiden , er ...oh I don't know ..whomever you think is cool (groovy baby!) there has always been "pop" acts... that have been contrived to "make money". Indeed all the great acts "made money" when they could...it's what made the world go around. I have a friend who was a part of the original Black lace ..Agadoo and all that pap....He is a brilliant guitarist and musician that made a lot of people happy with his " pop"music .... You don't have to like it ...but hey ...somebody does...and that's the whole point of music...well I think so anyway. Enjoy your career...I have enjoyed mine and I genuinely wish you well. [/quote] [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1501499248' post='3344996'] Nowadays? There has always been a "money grabbing music industry". One that at best "uses" and at worst "shafts" the artists. From Malcolm McLaren to Simon Cowell and Colonel Tom Parker to Norman Petty, Don Arden to Alan Klein etc etc and right back to the beginning. The very next day, after that guy discovered the log sitting outside his cave made a good sound if he hit it in a particular way, an agent turned up offering to make him rich for a stupidly large percentage. Modern pop bands struggle these days because there is no music industry any more and the great public expect their music to be free. For too many of them music is just a background noise that has no relevance in their lives other than to prevent and break up the silence. [/quote] [quote name='fftc' timestamp='1501536978' post='3345417'] Sorry, but I have to disagree with almost every assertion in this post. Bananarama weren't that bad. Music is more varied now, and there are tons of artists playing their own stuff. And Olly Murs might not be as good as George was, but Laura Marling probably is. I do agree about the TV 'talent' shows but I think that is a very narrow window on the modern 'pop' world. It staggers me how much variety is out there now. Granted, a lot of it is not to my taste at all. I can't get with any of the booty shaking stuff, and grime is another world entirely, but then I'm in my mid 40's so it wouldn't be right if I was into it! Doesn't detract from the fact that variety is out there. Take a look at some of the Mercury nominees over the last few years. Even just some of the artists who have been in discussion on this forum. Thundercat, Royal Blood, Rag n Bone man, Field Music. All current, all pop, all different! [/quote] Well said those chaps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicko Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 [quote name='Sibob' timestamp='1501764298' post='3347217'] Saying pop simply means 'popular' (it's historical meaning I guess), completely invalidates the initial suggestion. There are SOOOOOO many bands/musicians as good as Level 42 technically (being the the example here) who also have good songs and are popular in their field. If you think there aren't, then you genuinely aren't looking hard enough and you should stop talking about it . If you're talking about Pop (capital P) as a genre then it's all about cycles isn't it, that said, it's all out the window now anyway. When Level 42 were in their heyday, you got in the charts by selling records, and people would only hear those records if you were on the radio or TV. Now it's also download sales and you can hear those songs via any thousands of methods on the internet. So comparing like-for-like is pointless. Sometimes they converge (i.e. major label money with actual good musicians), but not often, usually just individual artists who they think will sell a lot of units. Take Maroon 5 for example, they're all excellent musicians.....like really really good! But they write 'Pop' music, just because there's no slap bass or chorus effect on it....doesn't mean it's not as valid as Level 42 Si [/quote] You forgot to mention no one buys music simply for its technical artistry. If they did we would all have a full compliment of Pat Metheny and Stanley Clarke albums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jus Lukin Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 (edited) - Edited March 1, 2022 by Jus Lukin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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