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Setting up my own studio advice needed


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#1 fiatcoupe432

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 08:15 AM

Hi guys , decided to set up my own studio and need some advices on how to really do it?
Atm moment this is my gear ...,
Audient id14 sound card
Mac Pro 16gb ram quad core
Sennheiser za5600ii
Sm58
Cad drum mics
Various guitar and bass amps
. So what do I need if I wanted to record drums with 4/5 mics?



#2 cheddatom

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 08:45 AM

It looks like you have a 2 channel interface already. You need an interface that can record enough channels. For each mic you also need a pre-amp. You can get interfaces with built in pre-amps, which is probably the most cost effective way for you to go. There are loads to choose from. Also some of these new digital mixers tend to have USB for multi-channel interface - I think the Behringer X32 does this?

For drums, I like 1 mic on the kick, 2 on the snare, 1 for each tom, 2 overheads, 1 or two room, and occasionally a hi-hat mic. Figure out the number of channels you need and then look for an interface to match. The Tascam US-16x08 looks like good value to me!

I'm not sure whether you'd want thunderbolt rather than USB - don't know much about Macs, hopefully someone else will help on that front
Please check out my recording studio in stoke-on-trent
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#3 SubsonicSimpleton

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 09:51 AM

Your Audient ID14 has adat optical connection, so you can connect up another device with adat connectivity to add up to eight additional preamps (depending on sample rate you get 8@44.1/48 or 4@88.2/96 on devices that support higher sample rates). Cheapest self contained new option to expand your interface is probably the Beringher ADA8200 (don't dimiss it as trash without doing some research, and listening to some material that has been recorded with one), if you want to spend more (or less secondhand) there are lots of other options for ADAT compatible preamps or interfaces with more inputs.

#4 Bigwan

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 09:52 AM

The Audient has an ADAT in so you have, in theory, enough inputs already (10 in, 4 out on that interface I think). Just need to find an appropriate mixer/set of preamps with an ADAT output... There's where I draw a blank...

Edit: Damn, beaten to it! A cursory search would lead me to believe that if the Behringer ADAT pre doesn't float your boat you may be cheaper buying a new interface as after that it gets pretty expensive...

Edited by Bigwan, 31 July 2017 - 09:55 AM.

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#5 charic

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 09:52 AM

You'll probably want a 16 channel interface but you might be able to manage it with 8 channels if you can work within the contraints, you'll either need to overdub or do it "live" recording style.

In a live recording setup on an 8 channel I would suggest

Kick
Snare
Overhead Left (Or HiHat)
Overhead Right (Or Close Overhead for Toms)
Guitar 1
Guitar 2
Bass
Vocals

It all depends what you want to do and what your budget is!

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#6 sammybee

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 03:05 PM

Option for a 8ch ADAT Pre-amp is a used MOTU 8-Pre. Bought mine for £150 in mint condition.

#7 fiatcoupe432

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 03:21 PM

Could a mixer connect to the interface works?

#8 Dad3353

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 04:10 PM

View Postfiatcoupe432, on 31 July 2017 - 03:21 PM, said:

Could a mixer connect to the interface works?

It would work, but the mix would be fixed, once the recording is finished. No re-mix afterwards, as it would now be only stereo, and no removing 'flubs' after the event.
In passing, I'd suggest that one can achieve excellent drum recordings with only one mic, or two. Is this for recording for your personal use, or to take on recording of other folks..? That might change the vision of what's best.
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#9 BigRedX

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 05:11 PM

View Postfiatcoupe432, on 31 July 2017 - 08:15 AM, said:

So what do I need if I wanted to record drums with 4/5 mics?

A really good sounding and decent sized room with a variety of movable acoustic treatments to record the drums in.

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#10 SpikeBass

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Posted 01 August 2017 - 07:47 AM

I have an M-audio 26/26 with 2x behringer ADAT's connected. I use the M-audio as my main inputs then i feed out the lot into a TAC desk (love analogue mix & FX). I use 7 mics for drums, the 8th for Bass on initial recording.

kick/snare/tom1/2/3/hats/overhead I have a set of Samson drum mics that were/are cheap as chips but never seen the need to replace them at all.

Everyone's idea of a studio is different but as already suggested you can do it with an 8 I/O interface then simply mix to stereo.

#11 fiatcoupe432

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Posted 01 August 2017 - 08:45 AM

I think I'm gonna go for the Ada8200 .
Gonna see if I manage to put all the lot together .
So do you recommend feeding the output of the ada8200 into a mixer/console o there is no need of a mixer ?

#12 cheddatom

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Posted 01 August 2017 - 03:51 PM

no the ADA8200 has pre-amps in it (much like your mixer) but outputs each channel individually in digital data via the ADAT link into your interface

A mixer is generally used to mix multiple inputs down to one or two channels - E.G your live PA. You don't want to do that as you want to be able to process each channel individually after you've recorded

I do actually use a mixer in my studio, but I take the Direct Outputs of each channel, and feed them into my audio interface which can accept up to 24 analogue inputs, so I'm not really using the master bus of my mixer
Please check out my recording studio in stoke-on-trent
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#13 fiatcoupe432

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Posted 01 August 2017 - 10:12 PM

Thank you so far !!!
Now if you had my equipment how would you set it up? Sorry but I'm new at this and I'm sure u guys can help .
Also please use easy terminology as English is not my first language and I struggled when we talk recording gear stuff;-)

#14 fiatcoupe432

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Posted 01 August 2017 - 10:13 PM

This is what I need to record mostly
Vocals (ps I own a vocal booth)
Acoustic and electric guitar
Bass
Drums
Synths


#15 Dad3353

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Posted 01 August 2017 - 10:39 PM

View Postfiatcoupe432, on 01 August 2017 - 10:12 PM, said:

...
Now if you had my equipment how would you set it up? Sorry but I'm new at this...

Maybe have a look here...

Exeter Phoenix Sound Engineer courses ...

... or similar, in your region..? It would appear that you could benefit from a short, intensive course on the whole subject. There's a lot to it; it might be worth your while to invest a bit of time and money in decent training..?
We still don't know if this is just to record yourself, or to create a commercial recording studio, though.

Edited by Dad3353, 01 August 2017 - 10:39 PM.

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#16 bazztard

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 05:15 AM

View Postcheddatom, on 31 July 2017 - 08:45 AM, said:



For drums, I like 1 mic on the kick, 2 on the snare, 1 for each tom, 2 overheads, 1 or two room, and occasionally a hi-hat mic. Figure out the number of channels you need and then look for an interface to match. The Tascam US-16x08 looks like good value to me!



that is way overkill lol. TWO mics on the snare.

Plenty of great mixers can record drums with 3 mics, snare, kick and toms/cymbals.

seriously.

youtube has lots of how tos on this subject

https://www.youtube....eature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube....0&v=Kxcufuj-OCE
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#17 BigRedX

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 08:26 AM

Yes you can record drums with just three mics, but you do need a decent acoustic space to record in if you are going to go down this route, as the fewer mics you use the more important the room becomes.

On the other hand you could close mic every drum individually with mics on both the top and bottom heads of every drum, various ambient mics in different parts of the live room and one in the stairwell down the corridor, with the door open just the right amount.

There is no right answer when it comes to recording anything. Do what is practical and what gives the end result you are looking for.

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#18 fiatcoupe432

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 09:17 AM

View PostDad3353, on 01 August 2017 - 10:39 PM, said:

Maybe have a look here...

Exeter Phoenix Sound Engineer courses ...

... or similar, in your region..? It would appear that you could benefit from a short, intensive course on the whole subject. There's a lot to it; it might be worth your while to invest a bit of time and money in decent training..?
We still don't know if this is just to record yourself, or to create a commercial recording studio, though.


this is def good .
i don t have problem recording and mixing when everything else is set up .
is just the set up which i m not so sure .........
but ill def look to take a course

#19 cheddatom

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 09:30 AM

View Postbazztard, on 02 August 2017 - 05:15 AM, said:

that is way overkill lol. TWO mics on the snare.

Plenty of great mixers can record drums with 3 mics, snare, kick and toms/cymbals.

seriously.

youtube has lots of how tos on this subject

https://www.youtube....eature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube....0&v=Kxcufuj-OCE

Yep, I've done plenty of that, but I like choices, and micing the snare top and bottom really helps. Sometimes I'll have two mics on the top and one on the bottom. It's not overkill lol, it's giving yourself maximum flexibility
Please check out my recording studio in stoke-on-trent
http://rifffactory.co.uk

#20 cheddatom

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 09:32 AM

View Postfiatcoupe432, on 01 August 2017 - 10:12 PM, said:

Thank you so far !!!
Now if you had my equipment how would you set it up? Sorry but I'm new at this and I'm sure u guys can help .
Also please use easy terminology as English is not my first language and I struggled when we talk recording gear stuff;-)

Well if you get the ADA8200, you connect this to your interface, then you plug your mics into the ADA8200 and point the mics at the sound source(s) you want to record
Please check out my recording studio in stoke-on-trent
http://rifffactory.co.uk

#21 Sibob

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 08:25 PM

Hey all,

Before you buy anything, take a look at our Focusrite Academy page, we have videos showing you how to record drums with everything from 1 mic to 12 mic's :)

https://uk.focusrite...recording-drums

Si
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#22 fiatcoupe432

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 08:57 PM

Thank you Si , thats very helpful

#23 bazztard

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Posted 04 August 2017 - 04:00 AM

I defer to the more experienced of you with regards to room acoustics playing a big role and more mics helping in an acoustically poor room

I guess I need to buy a couple more mics hehe

Si, you are a legend, thanks mate
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#24 roman_sub

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 02:17 PM

Really depends on whether you intend to mix in the same space as record. Room problems (standing waves, early reflections) occur in most household rooms that would make your monitors less "truthful" and make it hard to do mixes that translate well in other places!

Adding channels via ADAT is an effective way of expanding your kit to record drums - i recently purchased Audient ASP800 for this very reason, and connect it via ADAT whenever I need more channels than my RME's have.

I guess you should be careful about whether you are trying to optimise the space for recording, or mixing. Fashion nowadays is to record as dry as possible - which can be helped by doing things like hanging up duvets behind the singer. lots of good advice in Sound on Sound articles. That may work for a corner of your "mixing room", but an entirely different approach / new set of compromises may be needed if you want to record drums in the same space as you mix / monitor. Drums normally sound best in a good room, so making it completely "dead" is unlikely to get great results IMO...

It is definitely a journey, so take your time, experiment, and try to understand some of the physics underlying what's happening - then you can address problems as you become more and more aware of them. I guess I'm saying that you shouldn't expect to have a great sounding space with perfect results straight away - but don't get discouraged! It's definitely a hugely complex area - with the key pothole being that you can easily sink lots and lots of money into things that make objectively little difference to the results.

Studio gear GAS is even more dangerous than bass/guitar GAS, in my experience... you've been warned!
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#25 fiatcoupe432

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 06:37 AM

View Postroman_sub, on 10 August 2017 - 02:17 PM, said:

Really depends on whether you intend to mix in the same space as record. Room problems (standing waves, early reflections) occur in most household rooms that would make your monitors less "truthful" and make it hard to do mixes that translate well in other places!

Adding channels via ADAT is an effective way of expanding your kit to record drums - i recently purchased Audient ASP800 for this very reason, and connect it via ADAT whenever I need more channels than my RME's have.

I guess you should be careful about whether you are trying to optimise the space for recording, or mixing. Fashion nowadays is to record as dry as possible - which can be helped by doing things like hanging up duvets behind the singer. lots of good advice in Sound on Sound articles. That may work for a corner of your "mixing room", but an entirely different approach / new set of compromises may be needed if you want to record drums in the same space as you mix / monitor. Drums normally sound best in a good room, so making it completely "dead" is unlikely to get great results IMO...

It is definitely a journey, so take your time, experiment, and try to understand some of the physics underlying what's happening - then you can address problems as you become more and more aware of them. I guess I'm saying that you shouldn't expect to have a great sounding space with perfect results straight away - but don't get discouraged! It's definitely a hugely complex area - with the key pothole being that you can easily sink lots and lots of money into things that make objectively little difference to the results.

Studio gear GAS is even more dangerous than bass/guitar GAS, in my experience... you've been warned!


thank you for your opinion man .
def recording and mixing in the same space .
however the room is massive , is an old barn so very cool .
i will post some picture for you
P.s i know about Gas , is crazy i could sell my wife ;-)

#26 roman_sub

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 07:09 AM

I would start by finding the place in the room where the drums sound best. Try walking around with a snare drum, hit it, and identify where the snare/room sounds the best. Set up the kit there.

If you are mixing/recording in the same space, I'm assuming you won't be using monitor speakers at the same time as drums are being recorded (so you'll monitor via headphones). You may consider setting up the control desk so that you have line of sight to the drummer.

Acoustic treatment for the control area will be somewhat tricky to get perfect. If money was no object, it would obviously be better to create two rooms, one for tracking and one for mixing....

Anyway I'd suggest focusing on getting drums sounding good acoustically within the room first, and get adequate monitoring on headphones. That will allow you to capture good sounding drum first, something you can't really 'fix in the mix' - unless you replace the kit with samples (yuck...)

You'd have to make more compromises with your mixing space, but you can probably adapt this more and 'learn' it. Worst comes to worst, you could mix somewhere else. I think few project studios have good sounding live rooms but many are well set up for mixing. You can't however do much with badly recorded drums.
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#27 roman_sub

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 07:13 AM

Ps this article may give you a few ideas

https://www.soundons...s-elephant-tree
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#28 fiatcoupe432

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 10:46 AM

Hi mate , thank you very much for your advices !!!im gonna try and build a similar room to that for drums . Looks pretty cool
Just purchased an apogee quartet , 1 sm57 😱

#29 BigRedX

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 11:22 AM

View Postroman_sub, on 10 August 2017 - 02:17 PM, said:

Studio gear GAS is even more dangerous than bass/guitar GAS, in my experience... you've been warned!

I suggest that anyone who is contemplating spending money on a serious home studio has a good read of my cautionary tale before getting out their wallet and credit card.

My Music:
Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image


#30 Dad3353

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 12:38 PM

View PostBigRedX, on 11 August 2017 - 11:22 AM, said:

I suggest that anyone who is contemplating spending money on a serious home studio has a good read of my cautionary tale before getting out their wallet and credit card.

Would you have listened to that excellent advice, back in the day..? :rolleyes:

:D :P
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