Female singers / musicians / dancers and the attitudes of some male punters

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1505588489' post='3373065']
Not to mention poor old Tom Jones, who has to walk around the stage with girls knickers [s]on[/s] [i]stuck to[/i] his head.
[/quote]

I slightly altered your statement.

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1505558030' post='3372791']
Yes, I thought it might be The Hazlitt after seeing your location. I was at the show as well and although I don't recall what was shouted out, there were quite a few wolf whistles etc.

It's unfortunate, but I think the likelyhood of getting a few hundred people into a room and there not being a few people in th crowd that can't keep their gob shut is fairly remote. I would usually say that it's the right thing to do to challenge unacceptable behaviour as and when it happens, but doing that at a gig is almost certainly not going to end well, which could spoil it even more for others. I also don't think it's the right thing to challenge it from the stage as long as the words/whistles are directed to those performing. I don't think the female vocalist or dancers were bothered by it at all.
[/quote]

I am assuming, Hiram, that there are adequate security measures in place at the venue and should the "high spirits" turn sour they would be all over the situation. I don't see a need to worry in those circumstances. Folk let off steam. It's why they go out of a night.

[Dood]

[quote name='Yank' timestamp='1505553987' post='3372731']
This might not be politically correct, but if the female is wearing revealing, provocative outfits, isn't this the response they hope for? I doubt that can-can dancers in years past were expecting mere polite applause.
[/quote]

[quote name='SICbass' timestamp='1505561286' post='3372829']
I work in shows with dancers all the time. They hate this kind of crap but tend to just take it as an occupational hazard. As for "loving it", no, not ever. They have to earn a living just like we do and almost never have any say as to what they have to wear.
[/quote]

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='darkandrew' timestamp='1505513870' post='3372590']
I've just got back from seeing an 80s tribute act with my wife and was quite shocked by the attitudes of some of the male members of the audience toward the female dancers. It seemed that quite a large chunk of the male audience think it's OK to repeatedly wolf whistle and shout out smutty comments at the dancers throughout the show. I overheard a conversation between one of these men and the lady that he was with, during the interval, where he tried to justify his behaviour by saying that "they love it, having all these men oggling them".

To be honest, I found it deeply embarrassing and awkward. Now, am I being too sensitive, do I need to lighten up a bit? Is it just a bit of fun or was a right to feel awkward and embarrassed by this behaviour? How do you feel if / when you or your female bandmates are on the receiving end of this sort of thing? Is it just par for the course or is it something that should have been kicked into touch many years ago and has no place in 2017? If it does happen to you and you don't like it, what do you do? Do you react or just ignore it and carry on?
[/quote]

It doesn't happen to me at open mic nights (yet).

I am not sure what sort of attention I'd attract if I wound up me hips, paramedical probably. See photo on the left.

[Silvia Bluejay]

In our 'private' life we can choose what to wear, and look as as sexy or demure as we choose. If we choose to look cool, or sexy, it's NOT necessarily because we want or like to be wolf-whistled. My own choice of clothes has always reflected what I thought I looked good in, and what I liked to see myself wearing, regardless of the opinion of others, male or female.
When it comes to what you are required to wear (or not wear!) for work, it's a different matter. Whether you are male or female, being at the receiving end of smutty or rude comments is wrong, even if it's always happened and will probably always happen to some degree.
Doing something about that during a show is another matter. Perhaps, one day, the person doing the leering and shouting will find themselves the only one behaving like that in the entire audience, and will feel embarrased enough not to do it again. We can only hope.

[KingPrawn]

Will we ever get beyond the mindless male attitude towards females. It's disappointing to read the comments pretty much blaming the band member for inviting lewd could comments due to their clothing.

I was in a great band with a female singer, who prior to going on stage at a gig. Came up to me in tears. A group of lads had made some highly sexualised comments to her as she was walking to the toilet. It really knocked her. I went to speak to the lads and explained how upset she was and how would they feel if it were their sister, girlfriend etc. That if they have to say something, why can't they just pay a simple compliment? Why does is have to be so overtly sexualised.?I explained that as group is this how they really want to interact with other. Or do they think they are impressing each other? None apologised although all sat in silence. I watched them leave as we were starting.

As someone has said. It's really simple for me. It's just wrong. They have no right.

[mcnach]

[quote name='darkandrew' timestamp='1505513870' post='3372590']
I've just got back from seeing an 80s tribute act with my wife and was quite shocked by the attitudes of some of the male members of the audience toward the female dancers. It seemed that quite a large chunk of the male audience think it's OK to repeatedly wolf whistle and shout out smutty comments at the dancers throughout the show. I overheard a conversation between one of these men and the lady that he was with, during the interval, where he tried to justify his behaviour by saying that "they love it, having all these men oggling them".

To be honest, I found it deeply embarrassing and awkward. Now, am I being too sensitive, do I need to lighten up a bit? Is it just a bit of fun or was a right to feel awkward and embarrassed by this behaviour? How do you feel if / when you or your female bandmates are on the receiving end of this sort of thing? Is it just par for the course or is it something that should have been kicked into touch many years ago and has no place in 2017? If it does happen to you and you don't like it, what do you do? Do you react or just ignore it and carry on?
[/quote]


It's wrong, but it seems that "oh I'm just having a drink and a laugh, it's just a bit of fun innit?" is the usual justification (and yes, that also applies when males are at the receiving end)...

But what are you going to do?
When someone in my circle gets bothered, I intervene. Invariably the idiots are also cowards and go away. Not fun but somehow we've created this society where the mere action of being around alcohol means that it's ok to act like a complete idiot. Weekend after weekend. I try to do my bit simply by not buying the "ah, I was drunk" explanation every time I hear it "yes, you were drunk, but you just used that as an excuse to do something you wanted to do which you knew was wrong and did it anyway"...
Other than that, what can you do?

The thing is that the vast majority of people are ok. There are specific bars that attract a specific type of idiot and those are easy to spot and avoid, but in general most people are ok. I try not to let that put me off going to bars. But I know I'll encounter idiots from time to time. Just can't fight them all all of the time.

A colleague/friend of mine, a very attractive 25 year old female, has had two nasty encounters in the past couple of months walking on the street. The first one on her way to work, three suited guys made obscene remarks and one grabbed her bottom (he got a slap from her). The other was at night last week awalking on the park where one guy grabbed her by her wrist and his three friends laughed and again were having 'fun' suggesting what they could do together'... which stopped because an off-duty policeman was walking right behind at the time.
The worst part of that is that she says "there's nothing anyone can do, it's happened before and it'll happen again".
That's the same kind of guy who will be the idiot at the bar.

What can we possibly do?
Well, if you have one of them right next to you, don't let them be that way and get away with it.

They only at that way because we, as a group, tolerate it. I would love to beat the hell out of the next guy who does anything like that to my friend... but I can't fight them all. They're not Pokemon. It would be a lot more effective if we openly talked about their attitude as disgusting, and shunning them.

But... I'm getting carried away.

God, I hate idiots, and drunks... and drunk idiots the most. It's a tough condition to have when I spend so much time playing in bars...

[mcnach]

[quote name='timmo' timestamp='1505542581' post='3372648']
I wouldn't let it spoil my night
[/quote]

It can spoil somebody else's night 'though.

Ask your female friends how often they have to deal with annoying idiots who just won't go away when asked. You might be surprised how 'normal' it is.

[mcnach]

[quote name='gjones' timestamp='1505548320' post='3372689']
Being the subject of ogling, is not just a female problem. As any, reasonably, presentable, Scotsman, who occasionally wears a kilt, will attest too.

Sometimes it's amusing but many times it's not.
[/quote]

Uff... indeed.
I'm not even from the UK, but as an adopted son of Scotland I've worn a kilt at times... and it does get a bit boring. And every single one of them thinks it's hilarious and original and that they're the first...

[mcnach]

[quote name='Yank' timestamp='1505553987' post='3372731']
This might not be politically correct, but if the female is wearing revealing, provocative outfits, isn't this the response they hope for? I doubt that can-can dancers in years past were expecting mere polite applause.
[/quote]


It's nothing to do with politically correct (the lamest excuse of those without a real argument).

It's about respect.
If you really need me to spell it out for you...

[Les]

It's not going to go away, we ply our trade in the drinks industry and alcohol is well known for lubricating the dickhead gene.

The guys involved would probably have found different dickhead ammo had there not been women in the lineup.

They walk amongst us.

[SH73]

What does one expect from an alcohol fuelled audience?

[arthurhenry]

[quote name='bazztard' timestamp='1505621558' post='3373169']
are you just pretending to be outraged coz your GF is reading over your shoulder?

why are there DANCERS at your rock gig? for males to ogle them, that's why. or else you're kidding yourself.
[/quote]
The post mentions wolf whistling and shouting of smutty comments. Very different to looking and keeping the thoughts in your head.

[seashell]

[quote name='arthurhenry' timestamp='1505653713' post='3373355']

The post mentions wolf whistling and shouting of smutty comments. Very different to looking and keeping the thoughts in your head.
[/quote]

Exactly this. In my younger days I have danced in a chorus line and worn some revealing costumes. I wanted the audience (male and female) to think I looked good, and if anyone thought I was sexy as well then that was an added bonus. What was unwelcome was cat calling and lewd comments. I'm happy to say this rarely happened though (this was back in the 70s/80s). Perhaps it was the kind of shows I did, which were usually family shows in a theatre rather than pub gigs.

[ambient]

[quote name='SH73' timestamp='1505651414' post='3373336']
What does one expect from an alcohol fuelled audience?
[/quote]

The alcohol is just an excuse I think.

I don't drink, never have. I know people who do, and I know they would never behave in such a manner.

[bazzbass]

those dancers could've worn long skirts or pants if they didn't want people ogling them, seriously. they show their ass cheeks and dance sexy, how could they possibly complain. If you're gonna show me, I'm gonna look. If you don't want me looking, don't show me.

all dancers now dance like strippers.

[arthurhenry]

[quote name='bazztard' timestamp='1505659632' post='3373390']
those dancers could've worn long skirts or pants if they didn't want people ogling them, seriously. they show their ass cheeks and dance sexy, how could they possibly complain. If you're gonna show me, I'm gonna look. If you don't want me looking, don't show me.

all dancers now dance like strippers.
[/quote]
They didn't complain about anyone looking. Morons shouted out lewd comments and wolf whistled, they didn't just look.

[Silvia Bluejay]

[quote name='bazztard' timestamp='1505659632' post='3373390']
those dancers could've worn long skirts or pants if they didn't want people ogling them, seriously. they show their ass cheeks and dance sexy, how could they possibly complain. If you're gonna show me, I'm gonna look. If you don't want me looking, don't show me.

all dancers now dance like strippers.
[/quote]

Dancers' outfits are not their choice, but the costume manager's. They shouldn't be harassed for someone else's choice. And if the dancers don't want to wear a certain costume, the producers will find lots of other dancers who will.

[leftybassman392]

[quote name='bluejay' timestamp='1505663213' post='3373413']
Dancers' outfits are not their choice, but the costume manager's. They shouldn't be harassed for someone else's choice. And if the dancers don't want to wear a certain costume, the producers will find lots of other dancers who will.
[/quote]

Precisely.

[ambient]

[quote name='bazztard' timestamp='1505659632' post='3373390']
those dancers could've worn long skirts or pants if they didn't want people ogling them, seriously. they show their ass cheeks and dance sexy, how could they possibly complain. If you're gonna show me, I'm gonna look. If you don't want me looking, don't show me.

all dancers now dance like strippers.
[/quote]

I just had to check what year we were in.

Are you for real?

The dancer were wearing costumes. Looking is one thing, shouting lewd comments and whistling is something totally different. It's called respect, having respect for another persons feelings, not making them feel uncomfortable.

[mcnach]

[quote name='SH73' timestamp='1505651414' post='3373336']
What does one expect from an alcohol fuelled audience?
[/quote]


I drink, and sometimes quite a bit... I still don't behave that way. Don't help them find a cheap excuse, please. That behaviour is a choice.

[mcnach]

[quote name='bazztard' timestamp='1505659632' post='3373390']
those dancers could've worn long skirts or pants if they didn't want people ogling them, seriously. they show their ass cheeks and dance sexy, how could they possibly complain. If you're gonna show me, I'm gonna look. If you don't want me looking, don't show me.

all dancers now dance like strippers.
[/quote]

Nobody is objecting to looking at what's on display. You're getting confused. You can look... but not touch without permission or make lewd comments. It's pretty... mindbogglingly obvious.

[SH73]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1505669168' post='3373460']



I drink, and sometimes quite a bit... I still don't behave that way. Don't help them find a cheap excuse, please. That behaviour is a choice.
[/quote]
When i go out once im a blue moon i drink too but know how to behave too.

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='bluejay' timestamp='1505663213' post='3373413']
Dancers' outfits are not their choice, but the costume manager's.
[/quote]

Frankly, a very poor choice of costume by the management.

Ra-ra skirts would have been far more period correct and would have afforded the unfortunate terpsichoreans a quantum of modesty. Might also have helped suppress the unrestrained, beastly urges exhibited by those sections of the audience accustomed to greet unclothed female flesh with wild roarings and hootings.

And don't get me started on those lumpy, beige high-heels-but-not-quite-stilettos. Utterly [i]de trop[/i].

[ambient]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1505685134' post='3373601']
Frankly, a very poor choice of costume by the management.

Ra-ra skirts would have been far more period correct and would have afforded the unfortunate terpsichoreans a quantum of modesty. Might also have helped suppress the unrestrained, beastly urges exhibited by those sections of the audience accustomed to greet unclothed female flesh with wild roarings and hootings.

And don't get me started on those lumpy, beige high-heels-but-not-quite-stilettos. Utterly [i]de trop[/i].
[/quote]

I wasn't too impressed by the pink t-shirts and white trousers the male members were wearing .

Edited September 17, 2017 by ambient