If you could only choose one filter pedal

[Cuzzie]

CJ is right

I can't co ordinate feet and hands, hands and hands is bad enough....

[CameronJ]

[quote name='Cuzzie' timestamp='1505921375' post='3375255']
I can't co ordinate feet and hands, hands and hands is bad enough....
[/quote]

I know what you mean...I struggle with wah pedals

[GisserD]

I remember seeing a used manta on bass direct website a short whyle ago if your that desperate?

[Al Krow]

[quote name='GisserD' timestamp='1505937521' post='3375397']
I remember seeing a used manta on bass direct website a short whyle ago if your that desperate?
[/quote]

Good spot, thanks. They're looking to charge £124 for a second hand pedal posted (probably due to the BD mark up?), which feels a touch high to me. With such a relatively small discount (just over 15%) I'd actually be inclined to just get the thing new (with the option to return after 30 days for a full refund if I didn't get on with it and a full 12 month warranty if I did). The last four sales of SA Mantas on here ranged from £75 to £100 posted and I'd be very happy to pay that for something in vgc [Feel free to treat that as an official item wanted!]

For a bit of fun see what happens when you click on "add to cart" for that SA Manta pedal on BD. Suddenly they're looking to take £204 off you via PayPal. Yeh right!

[GisserD]

Like I said.. you'd have to be desperate!

[Quatschmacher]

I just rented the Moogerfooger MF-101 from fxpedalrental.com and am really enjoying it. The best discovery so far is using the expression pedal on the envelope control. Most expression pedal inputs on filters control the sweep via the cutoff frequency. The Moogerfooger can do that too but using it on the envelope is more interesting. It’s as though you were adjusting the sensitivity knob on other pedals via the expression pedal. Basically the filter continues to quack no matter what position it’s in but it varies the quality and amount of quack on the fly. It’s a really neat feature.

Cameron, have you tried one of these yet? I’d recommend you rent it after me. It’s perfect for synth stuff. On another note, have you tried the Future Impact I yet? If not, you really must. The rental place has one of those too!

[CameronJ]

I've definitely look upon both the Moog and the Future Impact with a lustful eye, however their large fort print and slightly awkward power requirements have always put me off. May have to give one or both of them a try at some point though.

[Quatschmacher]

The Moog is indeed a beast (about the size of four phase 90s) but if synth is what you’re after then this is it as it is the same filter used in the Minimoog.

[aitkenaudio]

personally if i could only have 1 I'd have a proper mutron because they're one of the few pedals that live up to the hype. on a budget though the dod 440 / fx25b does it for me

[Al Krow]

Ok I appreciate it's no Moogerfooger (and a slip of a pedal in comparison), but the Aggie FT arrived in the post today and is set up on the board. As Cameron correctly pointed out it's definitely civilised / polite, but equally it doesn't seem to suffer from the [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]more pronounced punch/snap which at certain settings can pound your speakers with large volume spikes[/font][/color]. I suspect that the other flip side of it being more polite is that it will be more acceptable to bandmates when played in the mix and may mean that I get more chance to play it live without grimacing looks of disapproval...

My original goal was to combine it with a decent octave pedal (in my case a COG T16) and good octave + good filter does make for a really good combination for any of you who haven't yet tried (I suspect that won't include any of the contributors to this thread, who will have got there long before me!)

I had a bit of fun adding tremolo into the mix from my B3n and that's a nice variation I can see myself using.

I suspect I am still going to GAS for something more "crazy" for creative solo noodling so I'll have a play with the B3n filters to see if any of them come close to being half decent and / or grab myself a Source Audio Manta at some point soon...Just checked my PMs and going to be sooner than I was expecting! .

Edited September 21, 2017 by Al Krow

[Quatschmacher]

[quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1506027194' post='3376050']
Ok I appreciate it's no Moogerfooger (and a slip of a pedal in comparison), but the Aggie FT arrived in the post today and is set up on the board.

My original goal was to combine it with a decent octave pedal (in my case a COG T16) and good octave + good filter does make for a really good combination for any of you who haven't yet tried (I suspect that won't include any of the contributors to this thread, who will have got there long before me!)
[/quote]

Small is definitely good on gigs. I had two MXR pedals at my last gig and was glad to not take up too much room (even through the stage was huge).

Get yourself some distortion or fuzz into that chain for even more fun. Even a subtle amount can make a huge difference. I’m using the distortion built into my Qballs and an MXR bass distortion and it gets pretty nasty (in a good way).

[CameronJ]

Yeah some dirt (between octave and filter for me) can work wonders! Treat yourself.

[Al Krow]

Gents ahead of you, for once! I have some pretty decent dirt sims on my B3n (which is indeed between the octave and filter in line with Cam's suggestion). And for that delicious warm valve amp sound, well I personally think the Two Notes le Bass on my board really hits the mark for that.

But for me the combination of octave dirt and filter can sound quite muddy, so a dirt with a brighter top edge is useful to counter.

Gonna be controversial here and stick my neck out: what I think works best as dirt for octave / dirt / filter in my armoury is actually the DG B7K sim on the B3n (and no doubt actual B7K or B3K pedals will be even better). A couple of my bass chat buddies will be grinning wildly at that statement 'cos they know my general view of DG gear (and this is the controversial bit) which is broadly along the lines of "you paid [i]that[/i] amount for [i]that[/i] sound, [i]really[/i]?"

[Cuzzie]

Oh Al, you opened that can of worms disguised in another thread.......

I suppose in a way one could ask has the DG line exploded and then now fallen back a little?
Is the fact there are a few more DG products than usual for sale testament to this?
Personally I think they are quality items, pricing aside, but they do have a core sound which is very modern metal. It's a shame as their stuff esp the amp can do more with its clean EQ section, but you almost feel like it's a waste not using the dirt, and that leads to the modern metal path.

I do like the dirt sound B3K variations especially, but there is something about it which doesn't quite sit with the clean sound, it's just a bit separate once engaged and unless it's bass which is the main driver of the sound in a band it can clash I think.

[Al Krow]

[quote name='Cuzzie' timestamp='1506053001' post='3376121']
I suppose in a way one could ask has the DG line exploded and then now fallen back a little?
Is the fact there are a few more DG products than usual for sale testament to this?
Personally I think they are quality items, pricing aside, but they do have a core sound which is very modern metal. It's a shame as their stuff esp the amp can do more with its clean EQ section, but you almost feel like it's a waste not using the dirt, and that leads to the modern metal path.
[/quote]

All good points. It is interesting just how many DG pedals do seem to be coming up for sale recently and taking considerable price knocks to off-load so, yes DG probably is "last year's sound", but that is perhaps better food for thought in another thread!

[quote name='CameronJ' timestamp='1506030137' post='3376069']
Yeah some dirt (between octave and filter for me) can work wonders! Treat yourself.
[/quote]

Just wondering - is the best place for the filter in folks' experience pretty much at the end of the chain (i.e. immediately before the compressor)? If the filter comes in earlier e.g. [i]before[/i] the dirt does that generally tend to result in a more muddy sound?

[Quatschmacher]

I’ve found that my MXR Distortion sounds better in front of the filter. Bear in mind, it has a dry knob too, which helps. It’s a different story if there’s only a distorted signal as it has less bottom end to drive the filter (so probably works better in the filter’s loop if it has one).

[dannybuoy]

Depends on the filter and the drive...

A filter going into a mild overdrive / amp-sim, or a blended overdrive sounds great, as the peak accentuates the distortion. Like a classic wah into a distorted guitar amp.

But if the filter is too extreme sounding it can overwhelm the drive pedal and sound bloated mess, sometime a blend helps there.

Filter after drive is generally always good, but after heavy distortion / fuzz it can sound like more like a synth sound that might sound a little bit too electronica if you were going for a rockier sound.

[CameronJ]

After a period of tweaking with my chain in the past, Octave > Dirt > Filter is the most pleasing sound to me. With things like chorus etc after that. I find that the attack and decay envelope of the filter kind of acts like a gate for the dirt, tightening up the end sound and making unruly/noisy dirt pedals quite usable.

[Sibob]

Someone mentioned the FX-25B earlier, that sounds great, I really liked it, but it had a very noticeable volume dip when switched in, so unfortunately useless for me live.
If they reissued it (as they've been doing recently) with that particular foible resolved, I'd definitely have one!

Si

[Al Krow]

[quote name='Sibob' timestamp='1506108744' post='3376580']
Someone mentioned the FX-25B earlier, that sounds great, I really liked it, but it had a very noticeable volume dip when switched in, so unfortunately useless for me live.
If they reissued it (as they've been doing recently) with that particular foible resolved, I'd definitely have one! Si
[/quote]

That's interesting. I'm kinda surprised that quite a few pedals don't have a volume / output control - I totally agree that a volume dip is really annoying if you're playing live and having to remember to adjust the volume elsewhere to compensate (whether it be on your pedal board, bass or amp). The MXR M82 does have a volume control but neither the Aguilar FT nor the EBS IQ do. Fortunately the Aggie the volume changes very little between engaged and by-pass and I'm guessing probably the same for the IQ?

@ Quatschmacher, DB and Cam - thanks for your thoughts on pedal order. I think you're saying there is probably a general preference for dirt before filter; it can perhaps also work well with filter into mild overdrive, but there is no hard and fast rule! Well I've got a SA Manta in-coming from the legendary danny-pedal-buoy of this estate. This will be going in after the octave down and before the dirt in classic Cam style, but I have to 'fess also 'cos that is the only space now left on my board! Although I'm sure I'll have some flexibility to experiment for myself (which let's fact is the whole point of getting a crazy Manta pedal!) by judicious re-routing of the patch cables.

Edited September 23, 2017 by Al Krow

[Cuzzie]

Al, don’t get sucked into the classic pedal positions, really experiment. I know I said to you that an octave AFTER the Manta does some awesome things especially if you can add in an expression pedal, and you can set your octave for up or down.
Dirt before a filter will definitely drive it and give your opening of the envelope a spark and a different flavour, but you may find a different order for your tastes, it’s like the compression at the start or end of chain debate.
Remember you are soon to have 2 filter pedals so you can stack the filters if you get the right setting in the Manta. One of the ones the Manta will get you sounds very much like a talkbox.

If I were you I would get another octave pedal and then you can have one before a filter and then one after a filter then it makes it easy!

No hard and fasts here, chop and change em around

[Al Krow]

[quote name='Cuzzie' timestamp='1506164675' post='3376799']
Al, don't get sucked into the classic pedal positions, really experiment. I know I said to you that an octave AFTER the Manta does some awesome things especially if you can add in an expression pedal, and you can set your octave for up or down.
Dirt before a filter will definitely drive it and give your opening of the envelope a spark and a different flavour, but you may find a different order for your tastes, it's like the compression at the start or end of chain debate.
Remember you are soon to have 2 filter pedals so you can stack the filters if you get the right setting in the Manta. One of the ones the Manta will get you sounds very much like a talkbox.

If I were you I would get another octave pedal and then you can have one before a filter and then one after a filter then it makes it easy!

No hard and fasts here, chop and change em around
[/quote]

You advising me to buy more stuff again! Lol! The Manta will literally be taking up the last bit of space on my Pedaltrain Classic Jr (which isn't a tiny board by any means), so I'm fortunately now protected / insured against pedal GAS at least for a while (and I now have enough crazy options with the Manta and B3n to keep amused for the remainder of 2017)

[elephantgrey]

[quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1506165536' post='3376811']
You advising me to buy more stuff again!
[/quote]

BC in a nutshell =P

[Cuzzie]

You know I am pulling your leg Al, but in all seriousness by all means start with the conventional and then move the pedals around, it’s easier to have them not Velcro attached to the board and do it

[CameronJ]

[quote name='Cuzzie' timestamp='1506164675' post='3376799']
Al, don’t get sucked into the classic pedal positions, really experiment. I know I said to you that an octave AFTER the Manta does some awesome things especially if you can add in an expression pedal, and you can set your octave for up or down.
Dirt before a filter will definitely drive it and give your opening of the envelope a spark and a different flavour, but you may find a different order for your tastes, it’s like the compression at the start or end of chain debate.
Remember you are soon to have 2 filter pedals so you can stack the filters if you get the right setting in the Manta. One of the ones the Manta will get you sounds very much like a talkbox.

If I were you I would get another octave pedal and then you can have one before a filter and then one after a filter then it makes it easy!

No hard and fasts here, chop and change em around
[/quote]

Big +1. At one stage I had Filter Twin > T16 > Okto-Nøjs > Manta > Pork Loin. So filter, octave, octave, dirt, filter, dirt!