Best in rubbish band or worst in great band?

[T-Bay]

Would you rather be the best player in a crap band? Or the worst player in a good band?

The best player in a crap band would (usually) have a greater say on the direction of the music and can 'shape' the band how they want it to some extent. They are also unlikely to be replaced.

The worst player in a decent band gets the benefit of learning from better musicians and playing in a good band, but may feel conscious of letting people down or fear being replaced.

So which would it be? For me it would be the worst player in a great band every time, I know I will work as hard if not harder than anyone else so would hope to make up some of the gap that way.

[Cat Burrito]

I think it is good to experience both but generally it is better to be around musicians that force you to stretch yourself more.

[TheGreek]

[quote name='Burrito' timestamp='1505935260' post='3375378']
I think it is good to experience both but generally it is better to be around musicians that force you to stretch yourself more.
[/quote]

This...will force you to raise your game.

[EliasMooseblaster]

[quote name='T-Bay' timestamp='1505934909' post='3375374']
The best player in a crap band would (usually) have a greater say on the direction of the music and can 'shape' the band how they want it to some extent. They are also unlikely to be replaced.
[/quote]

My follow-up question would be: how crap?

I've been in one or two short-lived bands where the standard of musicianship was abysmal. So bad that I wouldn't consider myself arrogant for saying I was the best musician in the room. So bad, in fact, that they couldn't be "shaped," and the music couldn't be "directed" unless one was prepared to put in a lot more labour than I was willing to. It becomes a thoroughly soul-sucking experience after a short while.

So yeah... in short, I'd prefer the challenge of being sub-par in a bunch of very accomplished musicians!

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

It depends - A band can sound exciting with an average singer, keyboardist, guitarist etc but playing with a drummer who can't keep a beat is unbearable..

[fretmeister]

Pub rock crap or Coldplay?

[mikel]

Always better to raise your game than languish in a comfort zone.

[T-Bay]

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1505938920' post='3375412']
Pub rock crap or Coldplay?
[/quote]
Obviously not Coldplay crap, it would take years and years of selfless dedication to get 5% as crap as Coldplay. I don't even think you could become Coldplay crap, I think you would have to be born Coldplay crap.

[casapete]

I've been fortunate to play mostly with musicians who have been generally more accomplished than myself, and
have learnt so much from doing so. When I look back at some of the players, I can't believe I was actually there with them
to be honest, they've been that good. And almost without exception, the best ones have also been the most humble and
friendly, taking time to explain parts to me and not getting exasperated if I don't get it first time etc.

So yeah, definitely being the worst player in an amazing band - if you have the right attitude it will be an invaluable
learning curve / experience and you will improve your own skills as a result.

[bassbiscuits]

I'd rather be the worst player in a great band for sure.

I've been the best player in a crap band on a few occasions, and it didn't give me a greater say in what we did - quite the opposite.

The whole potential of the band and the material was severely limited by the shortcomings of the bad players, so my views were a bit surplus really!

I'd much rather play with people better than me who force me to raise my game, even if it puts me under the cosh a bit initially.

At least there's room to grow and improve in a good band. With a crap band, there isn't.

[grumpyguts]

Coldplay might not be your favourite band but who wouldnt want to headline Glasto?

I would rather be doing their job than walking into my warehouse / production unit at 7,30 every morning.

Edited September 20, 2017 by grumpyguts

[discreet]

[quote name='Burrito' timestamp='1505935260' post='3375378']I think it is good to experience both but generally it is better to be around musicians that force you to stretch yourself more.[/quote][quote name='mikel' timestamp='1505939090' post='3375414']Always better to raise your game than languish in a comfort zone.[/quote][quote name='bassbiscuits' timestamp='1505940766' post='3375436']I'd much rather play with people better than me who force me to raise my game, even if it puts me under the cosh a bit initially.[/quote]

Plus one to all of this. My problem is in finding people who are better than me.

[Merton]

I've always been the worst player in (what I consider to be) good bands. It's great as it keeps me on my toes and makes sure I don't rest on my laurels.

I'm still sh*t, but it's nice to get asked back!

[chris_b]

I know at couple of players who are trying to be a big fish in a small pond and I think they look a little sad. Who wants to be anything in a small pond? Whatever size fish I could be, I always wanted to be in the biggest pond I could get into. To play with the best musicians, in the best bands and do the best gigs I could.

I have been the worse one in several bands but I also did pretty well in others. I know I could/should have done better if I focussed and tried harder, but I was a lazy sod and still am! Ho hum!

IME the bad guys are usually the ones that don't want to hear your ideas. If you have something worth saying the good guys are usually the most receptive. If you play in a band and worry about being fired you might as well not bother. Make them want to keep you.

Some bands are very cut-throat but when you get to a certain level you're more likely to be fired because you don't "look right" rather than for musical reasons.The one thing to aim for is to always play better this time than you did last time. If you think you could play something better, ask and then change it.

Be realistic and make sure you don't fool yourself. I've seen plenty of guys get fired who were convinced they were the bees knees.

The Dog and Duck or a US tour? No contest really is there.

[lojo]

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1505938920' post='3375412']
Pub rock crap or Coldplay?
[/quote]

[bazzbass]

playing with better musicians is the most rewarding experience, if you can cope with the insecurity.

My lead guitarist is a great musician, can play anything, well.

When we started recording our originals, I recorded my bass part on my own after the other parts, no drummer at the time. Of course I wanted my recording to show off my skills as a bassist,and I overplayed. The guitarist replied with "Too busy, we KNOW you can play, you don't have to prove it to us".
I immediately relaxed and played what the song needed, some songs very bassic lines, other times as busy as I could get,
[b]play what the song needs, not what your ego thinks you should play.[/b]

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1505944286' post='3375471']
I know at couple of players who are trying to be a big fish in a small pond and I think they look a little sad. Who wants to be anything in a small pond? Whatever size fish I could be, I always wanted to be in the biggest pond I could get into. To play with the best musicians, in the best bands and do the best gigs I could.

I have been the worse one in several bands but I also did pretty well in others. I know I could/should have done better if I focussed and tried harder, but I was a lazy sod and still am! Ho hum!

IME the bad guys are usually the ones that don't want to hear your ideas. If you have something worth saying the good guys are usually the most receptive. If you play in a band and worry about being fired you might as well not bother. Make them want to keep you.

Some bands are very cut-throat but when you get to a certain level you're more likely to be fired because you don't "look right" rather than for musical reasons.The one thing to aim for is to always play better this time than you did last time. If you think you could play something better, ask and then change it.

Be realistic and make sure you don't fool yourself. I've seen plenty of guys get fired who were convinced they were the bees knees.

The Dog and Duck or a US tour? No contest really is there.
[/quote]

Fish, dogs, ducks??? Am I even in the right forum?

I'm not really feeling the love for Coldplay in this thread. Poor old Chris.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SADub7W22Zg[/media]
(Warning: The clip above contains large amounts of Cordenite. Watch from the safety of a lead lined string vest.)

OT then; Plus one to being the lesser player in a band that would stretch my skills. So far all of the people I've met who have been able to earn from their talents have been so supportive of my meagre efforts. I feel empowered by this.

I'd like to think that when I eventually set up a band that I will be able to get amongst better players. I mean, why would anyone form a band with players that aren't as far along with their skills as yourself? At my level that probably means that we're all going to be learning a lot as we go but that is half of the fun of it. If I can't get a sense of achievement from it what am I in it for?

One of my aims is to make people stand up out of their seats and shake ar5e. If I get to that stage I think it still leaves room for improvement in terms of keeping a repertoire current. Of course, if people get up to shake ar5e at me in some sort of formation mooning team, I'd have to take the hint and retire.

Edited September 21, 2017 by SpondonBassed

[Bilbo]

I used to do 100s of gigs with people where I was the best in the band and it sucked the life out of me, in spite of the money. I took the decision several years ago to not do these shot gigs just for the money and, since then, I have nearly always been the worst player in the band. I am not sure whether I have improved but I am certainly happier. I only do about 35 gigs a year but they are with people like Alan Barnes, Pete Long, Mike Gorman, Derek Nash etc etc. Quality not quantity. I am not a pro so my day job pays the bills so it is important to me that the gigs are not factory work.

[radiophonic]

I think that if the drummer is crap, then your life will be misery (I quit the last two bands due to drummer issues) and if the guitarist and/or singer are crap, you might as well go home because they will consider themselves as 'in charge' (been there too). At least if I was the worst in a great band, I'd have something to push towards and a good drummer always makes me play better because I can take more risks and not have to worry where the 1 is going to be. My favourite band on the local circuit have a truly mediocre bass player, but given what the rest of the band are like, I'd have his job any day. It did occur to me that they might just [i]want [/i]someone who does nothing remotely interesting but kind of looks right.

[Skybone]

The general consensus is that it's better to be the worst in a good band than the best in a rubbish band. Like a few have already said, it's great to work with people who have more skills than you, as they push you to improve & reach their standard, rather than trying to drag other people up to your standard.

As much as I hate to admit it, Coldplay are actually good musicians who decided to peddle their bland blend of self indulgent music on society. Someone has to do it I suppose... As for watching an episode of Car Pool Karoake with Chris Martin & James Corden, a) I'd rather watch paint dry and if ever there was an episode where you really wanted to watch a car crash, because they were too busy being egotistical bell-ends, it would be that one.

[Conan]

I can't honestly say I'd relish the prospect of either. However, it's not about technical ability but how you use it (depending on the style of music of course). I get far more irritated by things like attitude, punctuality, etc. If someone learns their parts and plays them well, turns up on time, gets involved in the mundane band stuff like organising rehearsals, booking gigs and so on - and isn't a twat - then they will make themselves pretty indispensible in most bands.

Sometimes one's choices are limited. If you want to form a real niche band, them you may have to put up with what is available to a certain extent...

If it's enjoyable, its all good. If not, the reasons are rarely to do with musical ability IME

[Trueno]

I've done both. Much better to be the worst player in a really good band... assuming you are up to it ("worst" is relative, after all). I wouldn't even consider playing in a crap band now... unless it was a one off, like for someone's party.

[TimR]

I've seen lots of technically crap bands receiving a great response from an audience so I'd say a lot of the time it's down to attitude rather than technical competence. So I'd be happy to play in a crap band if they're getting the gigs and entertaining the audience.

What I'm not happy about is playing in a band of technically good (or bad) players who think they're amazing but don't get a decent audience.

I think there is a level for me where i am within a comfort zone. The Goldilocks zone of bass playing. Not too good and not too bad, getting gigs and entertaining audiences.

Who is the best person to decide whether you (or anyone else in the band) is a good player?

[Geek99]

[quote name='T-Bay' timestamp='1505940310' post='3375426']

Obviously not Coldplay crap, it would take years and years of selfless dedication to get 5% as crap as Coldplay. I don't even think you could become Coldplay crap, I think you would have to be born Coldplay crap.
[/quote]
Hmm - not seen me play have you?

[dmccombe7]

For me i prefer to be in a band with equal abilities that push each other to do better.

If i was the worst player i would always be on the back foot and feel inferior. I certainly would learn more but at what cost ?
If i was the best player i would feel i was wasting my time and wouldn't be able to play the songs i wanted. Would find it very limiting from a techical point of view.

Think you need to find a balance between technical abilities and personalities to enjoy it in my opinion.
That view would be different for those that are more serious about playing.
I play to enjoy as a hobby rather than as a job so might have a different outlook on it.

Dave