Small 4 ohm cab suggestions

[Osiris]

[size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]I'm thinking of changing my trusty Mesa Walkabout Scout 1x12 cab, 300 watts at 8 ohms, for a different small cab that is an easy one handed lift, something like another 1x12 but I'm keeping an open mind to different configurations. Must be 4 ohms and able to handle a minimum of 300 watts.

Having had a few minutes surfing the usual retailers it looks like most small cabs are 8 ohm which is understandable in terms of building a modular rig, but I can't find anything that fits the bill with a 4 ohm impedance. Anyone know of anything that meets the above criteria? [/font][/size]

Edited September 21, 2017 by Osiris

[dannybuoy]

Barefaced Retro 210?

http://barefacedbass.com/product-range/retro-two10.htm

[franzbassist]

Tecamp, now Eich, offer their 1x12 and 1x15 compact cabs in 4 ohm versions.

[Osiris]

[quote name='dannybuoy' timestamp='1505985724' post='3375609']
Barefaced Retro 210?

[url="http://barefacedbass.com/product-range/retro-two10.htm"]http://barefacedbass...retro-two10.htm[/url]
[/quote]

Cheers Danny, that looks like a strong contender.

[quote name='walbassist' timestamp='1505986928' post='3375622']
Tecamp, now Eich, offer their 1x12 and 1x15 compact cabs in 4 ohm versions.
[/quote]

My main gigging cab is a Tecamp M212 and is a thing of absolute joy, so a baby brother for it could well be the ticket!

[Al Krow]

Hi Osiris, would you consider trading your 8ohm 1x12 Mesa cab for a 4ohm 1x12? I've seen a few in the FS section that may tick the box for you - worth checking out?

[chris_b]

These days there are many fantastic small cabs around, but a small 4 ohm cab still has to carry the room, unless you have FOH. I never have FOH, which is why I always use 1, 2 or 3 small 8 ohm cabs.

If I had to choose a small 4 ohm cab it would definitely be a Barefaced. But as their 8 ohm cabs are louder than some 4 ohm cabs you don't have to paint yourself into the 4 ohm corner. 2 of my SC's are louder than the 3 Bergantino AE112's I used to use and even the AE112 and CN212.

[Al Krow]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1505990150' post='3375660']
These days there are many fantastic small cabs around, but a small 4 ohm cab still has to carry the room, unless you have FOH. I never have FOH, which is why I always use 1, 2 or 3 small 8 ohm cabs.

If I had to choose a small 4 ohm cab it would definitely be a Barefaced. But as their 8 ohm cabs are louder than some 4 ohm cabs you don't have to paint yourself into the 4 ohm corner. 2 of my SC's are louder than the 3 Bergantino AE112's I used to use and even the AE112 and CN212.
[/quote]

Chris in principle a BF 8ohm could be great, I agree, but the issue here is that the OP's amp will put out a lot less power at 8ohm than 4ohm and that is likely to be a key limiting factor here. 300W at 4ohm will generally = 150W at 8ohm correct? 150W is not going to leave much (if any) headroom for most gigs and would require the amp to be driven quite hard.

[machinehead]

[quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1505990763' post='3375668']
Chris in principle a BF 8ohm could be great, I agree, but the issue here is that the OP's amp will put out a lot less power at 8ohm than 4ohm and that is likely to be a key limiting factor here. 300W at 4ohm will generally = 150W at 8ohm correct? 150W is not going to leave much (if any) headroom for most gigs and would require the amp to be driven quite hard.
[/quote]

I used a Mesa Walkabout with single Barefaced cabs for years and never lacked for volume and rarely went through the PA.

Most 4ohm cabs can't handle the the power available to them anyway, so, in my opinion, you are indeed painting yourself into a corner buying a 4ohm cab.

Markbass offer a 4ohm version of their Traveller 2 x 10 although I doubt that it has any real-world advantage over the 8ohm version but has a very definate disadvantage.

Frank.

[chris_b]

I can't quote the numbers but you will struggle to hear a big difference between 150 and 300 watts. If you run the amp flat out you may hear something but most people don't do that.

BF cabs are much more sensitive than most commercially available cabs and will sound louder with whatever amp you put into them, as my example indicates. So assuming the OP wants his cab to sound the same volume as now a single 8 ohm BF cab will do that as easily as many other 4 ohm cabs.

[alexclaber]

[quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1505990763' post='3375668']
Chris in principle a BF 8ohm could be great, I agree, but the issue here is that the OP's amp will put out a lot less power at 8ohm than 4ohm and that is likely to be a key limiting factor here. 300W at 4ohm will generally = 150W at 8ohm correct? 150W is not going to leave much (if any) headroom for most gigs and would require the amp to be driven quite hard.
[/quote]

Wattage is nowhere near as important as most bassists think. 150W into a great 4x10" will demolish 500W into a mediocre 2x10". Speakers are very very inefficient at turning electrical power into acoustic power, they mostly turn your hundreds of watts of electricity into hundreds of watts of waste heat.

[Osiris]

There's some interesting, and very valuable, points to be taken into consideration in the last few comments.

For context, it doesn't need to carry the room as such as I only currently use the Mesa for rehearsals. (Although it has done a couple of small gigs but always with PA support).
My line of reasoning, which in light of the above may not be totally sound, is that having just acquired a new back-up/rehearsal amp (350 watts at 4 ohm) I'd like to get the full power out of the amp into a single small cab. But with the new amp putting out 175 watts at 8 ohm according to the manufacturers specs, the chances are that it probably is more than capable for what I want it for anyway. It certainly won't be getting to anywhere near flat out

Edited September 21, 2017 by Osiris

[mcnach]

[quote name='dannybuoy' timestamp='1505985724' post='3375609']
Barefaced Retro 210?

[url="http://barefacedbass.com/product-range/retro-two10.htm"]http://barefacedbass...retro-two10.htm[/url]
[/quote]


That would be my choice too

[xgsjx]

[quote name='Osiris' timestamp='1505993541' post='3375707']
There's some interesting, and very valuable, points to be taken into consideration in the last few comments.

For context, it doesn't need to carry the room as such as I only currently use the Mesa for rehearsals. (Although it has done a couple of small gigs but always with PA support).
My line of reasoning, which in light of the above may not be totally sound, is that having just acquired a new back-up/rehearsal amp (350 watts at 4 ohm) I'd like to get the full power out of the amp into a single small cab. But with the new amp putting out 175 watts at 8 ohm according to the manufacturers specs, the chances are that it probably is more than capable for what I want it for anyway. It certainly won't be getting to anywhere near flat out
[/quote]
If you're not gonna require to be squeezing every last bit out of the amp, then why put the components on the unnecessary strain? An 8Ω cab would be kinder on your components as it's not pulling quite so much current through them.

[Al Krow]

[quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1505993146' post='3375702']
Wattage is nowhere near as important as most bassists think. 150W into a great 4x10" will demolish 500W into a mediocre 2x10". Speakers are very very inefficient at turning electrical power into acoustic power, they mostly turn your hundreds of watts of electricity into hundreds of watts of waste heat.
[/quote]

Completely agree that a good speaker makes a massive difference to the volume / quality of sound etc and speaker efficiency plays a big part in this. But let's assume we are dealing with high quality cabs e.g. Barefaced or Vanderkley or Tecamp / Eich and not some general piece of pub heating equipment!

Are you really saying that 300W through a 4ohm BF cab will sound no louder than 150W through an equivalent 8ohm BF cab?

[mcnach]

[quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1506036032' post='3376104']
Completely agree that a good speaker makes a massive difference to the volume / quality of sound etc and speaker efficiency plays a big part in this. But let's assume we are dealing with high quality cabs e.g. Barefaced or Vanderkley or Tecamp / Eich and not some general piece of pub heating equipment!

Are you really saying that 300W through a 4ohm BF cab will sound no louder than 150W through an equivalent 8ohm BF cab?
[/quote]

He's probably saying that the difference by "watts" alone is nowhere near as noticeable as most imagine.
That's certainly my own experience. However many watts an amp is rated at, the bottleneck seems to be at the speakers. Get efficient (and numerous if that's feasible) speakers and you can make a relatively low rated amp work very well indeed.

The difference between the 8ohm and 4ohm version of a particular cab through the same amp is also nowhere near as large as I had imagined...
I suspect that even if a cab is rated for 500W, it stops getting noticeably louder well before that kind of power is applied to it: the cab can take it, but it's mostly just heating it. But this is just my interpretation. of the results, I do not have the knowledge to tell you for sure that's why speakers behave the way I experienced.

[xgsjx]

I believe the difference is 3db.
Now if you're playing with the amp maxed, then that 3db could make a little difference. If you're not playing with the amp maxed, then the difference is a squeeze on the volume knob.

[chris_b]

[quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1506036032' post='3376104']
Are you really saying that 300W through a 4ohm BF cab will sound no louder than 150W through an equivalent 8ohm BF cab?
[/quote]

But you're not putting 300 watts through the cab, because you're not running the amp flat out. You also have to get your head around, 300 watts is [i]not[/i] twice as loud as 150 watts. Also 4 ohms is not twice as loud as 8 ohms.

If you are running the amp on 50% then that's 150 watts vs 75 watts and with a good cab that will not be a huge difference. A bigger difference will be if you compared a 112 against a 212. More speaker area means you will move more air and the louder and better you will sound, and a cab with more sensitivity will be louder for the same watts by design.

Edited September 22, 2017 by chris_b

[alexclaber]

[quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1506036032' post='3376104']Completely agree that a good speaker makes a massive difference to the volume / quality of sound etc and speaker efficiency plays a big part in this. But let's assume we are dealing with high quality cabs e.g. Barefaced or Vanderkley or Tecamp / Eich and not some general piece of pub heating equipment![/quote]

It isn't just about "good" though. It depends on the design goals - some great bass cabs are not efficient but some are. With matching goals and and equally good execution then the larger cab will always be the more efficient cab.

[quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1506036032' post='3376104']Are you really saying that 300W through a 4ohm BF cab will sound no louder than 150W through an equivalent 8ohm BF cab?[/quote]

We don't make identical 4 and 8 ohm models. But an ~8 ohm Four10 is pretty much as loud as a ~4 ohm Super Twin - and according to one of the first Four10 owners, much louder than a pretty good quality 4x8+1x15 4 ohm stack.

[dannybuoy]

Just discovered the Gallery in Camden have a few BF cabs in stock too. Might have to check some out at some point, I've been curious to find out if the Retro/Compact would have enough top end clarity for my liking...

[fretmeister]

I don't know what environments the OP is playing in - but I'm using a 300W Tecamp Puma into a single BF One10 with a big band with over enthusiastic drummers and brass players.

I have a second One10 but I don't often have to use it. A single one is plenty loud enough.

[Merton]

[quote name='dannybuoy' timestamp='1506079369' post='3376290']
Just discovered the Gallery in Camden have a few BF cabs in stock too. Might have to check some out at some point, I've been curious to find out if the Retro/Compact would have enough top end clarity for my liking...
[/quote]

I've just bought a Super a Compact from there, Charlie was very helpful and patient with me
(as was Alex as I bugged him with many questions and musings)

[Osiris]

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1506079499' post='3376292']
I don't know what environments the OP is playing in - but I'm using a 300W Tecamp Puma into a single BF One10 with a big band with over enthusiastic drummers and brass players.

I have a second One10 but I don't often have to use it. A single one is plenty loud enough.
[/quote]

I'm mainly looking for something to cover rehearsals and possibly small gigs with my band - 5 piece rock and pop band with drums, 1 guitar and keys. We're not the loudest band in the world, but we're not the quietest either. So it's probably wise to think of it as more of a personal monitor than room filling backline.

The more I look into the BF one 10 and two 10 cabs, the more they're looking like the obvious choice.
I know a guy who has a pair of one 10's so I might just have to grovel and see if he'll let me test drive one against my Mesa. Are you reading this Kev???

[Al Krow]

[quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1506078013' post='3376281']
It isn't just about "good" though. It depends on the design goals - some great bass cabs are not efficient but some are. With matching goals and and equally good execution then the larger cab will always be the more efficient cab.
[/quote]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1506069859' post='3376196']
But you're not putting 300 watts through the cab, because you're not running the amp flat out. You also have to get your head around, 300 watts is [i]not[/i] twice as loud as 150 watts. Also 4 ohms is not twice as loud as 8 ohms. If you are running the amp on 50% then that's 150 watts vs 75 watts and with a good cab that will not be a huge difference. A bigger difference will be if you compared a 112 against a 212. More speaker area means you will move more air and the louder and better you will sound, and a cab with more sensitivity will be louder for the same watts by design.
[/quote]

Gents all good points and nothing I disagree with there (and hopefully reasonably well known to folk on this forum that the relation between Watts and volume is usually considered to be 10x Watts = 2x Volume i.e. a logarithmic scale).

But if we are going to properly A/B the change in ohms we need to keep all other factors constant (including e.g. speaker size). My point is a relatively simple one, let me illustrate it as follows:

Amp let's say is a Markbass LM3 (max 500W at 4 ohm), with the dial set leaving plenty of headroom, so that it is outputting 300W at 4 ohm.
We start with a Vanderkley 1x12 4ohm cab and listen to the volume.
We then swap it for a Vanderkley 1x12 8ohm cab, [i]leaving all the settings on the amp the same [/i](the amp will now be outputting 150W)

The 8ohm cab is noticeably quieter, right? Or Chris are you saying no material difference?

[xgsjx]

[quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1506089983' post='3376423'] Gents all good points and nothing I disagree with there (and hopefully reasonably well known to folk on this forum that the relation between Watts and volume is usually considered to be 10x Watts = 2x Volume i.e. a logarithmic scale). But if we are going to properly A/B the change in ohms we need to keep all other factors constant (including e.g. speaker size). My point is a relatively simple one, let me illustrate it as follows: Amp let's say is a Markbass LM3 (max 500W at 4 ohm), with the dial set leaving plenty of headroom, so that it is outputting 300W at 4 ohm. We start with a Vanderkley 1x12 4ohm cab and listen to the volume. We then swap it for a Vanderkley 1x12 8ohm cab, [i]leaving all the settings on the amp the same [/i](the amp will now be outputting 150W) The 8ohm cab is noticeably quieter, right? Or Chris are you saying no material difference? [/quote]
How do you know that it's going to be putting out 300w at 4 ohm? The volume & gain dials don't give any indication. Different basses have different outputs, so it depends on how hot an output the bass is giving. You might find with a hot bass it's clipping really early & the volume knob doesn't get to 1/2 way before reaching it's max.
Then with a quiet bass you might find you can have the gain & volume right up & be lucky to get that 300w, let alone 500.

Though to answer your question, it's 3db. at a really low volume, you will hear a difference, but at normal playing volumes, it's a negligible amount.

[Al Krow]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1506095062' post='3376467']
How do you know that it's going to be putting out 300w at 4 ohm? The volume & gain dials don't give any indication. Different basses have different outputs, so it depends on how hot an output the bass is giving. You might find with a hot bass it's clipping really early & the volume knob doesn't get to 1/2 way before reaching it's max.
Then with a quiet bass you might find you can have the gain & volume right up & be lucky to get that 300w, let alone 500.

Though to answer your question, it's 3db. at a really low volume, you will hear a difference, but at normal playing volumes, it's a negligible amount.
[/quote]

Ok cool. Yup for sure you won't be able to tell its 300W at 4ohm, that was just for illustrative purposes.

But the 3db point is actually really helpful, thanks, and this is what I was trying to get to the bottom of. That much more "scientifically" illustrates that the benefit from swapping from an 8ohm to a 4ohm cab is going to be pretty small, which is what Chris was getting at.

That says to me, no particular need for the OP to swap his Mesa 1x12 cab 8 ohm (which I understand separately from him, he really likes) for a 4 ohm version. He could consider swapping to a well designed 2x10 4ohm (or possibly 8ohm cab) which will both displace a significantly larger volume of air and, if it's a 4ohm, also have an additional small db (3db in our example) advantage, which together would start to stack up in volume / heft terms.