Happy Jack Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 We're trying to re-form Mick's Lawmen as a strictly old-school rock & roll band. All we need is a guitarist. OK, slightly more accurately, all we need is a guitarist who can play the classic rock & roll guitar licks. You know - Mick Green, Buddy Holly, Scotty Moore. And, of course, Chuck Berry. Now I grew up listening to Chuck, sometimes filtered through The Beatles and The Stones, more frequently in the raw original. I recognise that they're harder than they sound, but I had no idea how hard. We must have had half a dozen guitarists pass through so far, and not one of them was able to[list] [*]Match the right intro lick to the right song, [*]Play all the famous Chuck licks, [*]Play the licks in the right position on the neck, [*]Actually, y'know, [i][b]sound [/b][/i]a bit like Chuck. [/list] We've had the ludicrous situation of a bassist (me) having to show multiple guitarists how the lick goes - on bass, of course - while the drummer (Mick) tells them how to adjust the EQ on their guitar & amp to get closer to the right sound. These are guys who can match perfectly to Mick Green, Buddy Holly, Scotty Moore, Eddie Cochran, Duane Eddy, you name it. They're competent guitar players. But Chuck Berry? They all [i][b]think [/b][/i]they can play Chuck, some of them play a bit like Keith Richard, most of them get nowhere near. When we started looking, it never occurred to Mick and me that the ability to play Sweet Little Sixteen would be a deal-breaker. Did we miss something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obbm Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 (edited) Your not alone Jack. Over the years I've found the same. It's a bit like getting the rest of the band to play Sweet Home Alabama correctly. Impossible. You could always ask Michael J Fox. Edited September 21, 2017 by obbm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Get an 'old school' old bloke in, someone who was 'there' at the time. It's a dying art form, is that. I hope your keys are up to scratch, too..! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jus Lukin Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 (edited) - Edited March 1, 2022 by Jus Lukin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikel Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 A lot of what we now think to be "Simple" songs or licks are much more difficult than they sound. Might have a lot to do with the fact that 50s and 60s music was largely recorded without click tracks, and obviously, no computer grid. When a take felt right, it was deemed to be right, and that was the one released. The old phrase "Its not what you play but how and where you play it" was never more true than when you try and nail a R n R or early Rock song. We have all been seduced by Technique over musicality, and correctness over creativity during the last few decades. If it feels good it usually is good. The essence of Rock and Roll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casapete Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Playing Chuck stuff properly is nigh on impossible. As you point out, most guitarists [i]think [/i]they can do it okay, but in reality mostly don't get close in my experience. Tone is something rarely sorted properly - although in later years Chuck used Gibson 345/355's a lot, most of his hits in the 50's/early 60's were played on a Gibson ES350. The earlier versions had single coil P90 pickups, later switching to humbuckers. Thinline hollow body and a short scale too, so not an easy guitar sound to replicate, before you attempt Chuck's amazing style. Maybe too soon, but has anybody seen or considered doing a Chuck tribute show at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted September 21, 2017 Author Share Posted September 21, 2017 What, you mean turn up late without a band, have a quick run through with some local guys in the Gents toilet, play a 30-minute set and then walk off, no encores? Sounds like a winner to me ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casapete Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 [quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1505997754' post='3375744'] What, you mean turn up late without a band, have a quick run through with some local guys in the Gents toilet, play a 30-minute set and then walk off, no encores? Sounds like a winner to me ... [/quote] Err, excuse me - 60 minute set, to the second.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil.c60 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 [quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1505997754' post='3375744'] What, you mean turn up late without a band, have a quick run through with some local guys in the Gents toilet, play a 30-minute set and then walk off, no encores? Sounds like a winner to me ... [/quote] Having already been paid in cash up front - no money no show. Sounds great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Ahhh... Chuck made it [i]sound [/i]easy... there's the rub. [quote name='casapete' timestamp='1505996955' post='3375738'] Maybe too soon, but has anybody seen or considered doing a Chuck tribute show at all? [/quote] Getting a convincing 'Chuck' is going to be the problem there, hence this thread. Not so much a drummer and bass player... no-one remembers them as they were whoever turned up on the day... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highfox Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Yes he was a real on-off in all departments. I often ask my guitarist to do a bit of Chuck in the rock and roll type stuff we do and he never does. Maybe cop a bit of ZZ Top that's about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil.c60 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Without wishing to hijack the thread, we have the same issue with anything by Wilco/Dr Feelgood - our current guy just can't get it so won't do it. The last guy could but that's another story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 [quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1505990546' post='3375664'] We must have had half a dozen guitarists pass through so far, and not one of them was able to[list] [*]Match the right intro lick to the right song, [/list] [/quote] Sounds like they've at least nailed that aspect of Chuck's playing. He was notorious for starting songs with the wrong intro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Your looking for someone who is committed to a detailed knowledge of the man in question , which you might find hard to find , if you do though , you'd have a great product Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casapete Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 [quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1506010433' post='3375890'] Sounds like they've at least nailed that aspect of Chuck's playing. He was notorious for starting songs with the wrong intro. [/quote] Wrong intro, wrong key, wrong song - Chuck was well known for sometimes repeating a song he'd played earlier in the set too - all part of the Chuck magic. I suppose with a fair few of his tunes having near identical intros / guitar parts it was inevitable really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdowner Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 [indent=1]Chuck Berry is our band's finale! Mind you, I play the drums and our bassist moves to the front and shows off his licks so I can claim no fame![/indent] [indent=1]Always goes down well though [/indent] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdowner Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Apparently, when recording 'Johhny B Goode' Chuck told the band "You can play whatever you like but if you don't stop for my lead - you're fired!!" Cool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted September 21, 2017 Author Share Posted September 21, 2017 That would account for the waltz being played under the third verse then ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdowner Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 [quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1506022275' post='3376001'] That would account for the waltz being played under the third verse then ... [/quote] You wicked man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrumpymike Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 I've never come across anybody who plays Chuck Berry like Chuck Berry - and HE didn't have Chuck Berry to copy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne58 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 [quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1505997754' post='3375744'] What, you mean turn up late without a band, have a quick run through with some local guys in the Gents toilet, play a 30-minute set and then walk off, no encores? Sounds like a winner to me ... [/quote] Famous for using pickup bands, but probably without the run through in the Gents. More like a quick key shout out if pressed! Might be an idea to find a guitarist with the tenacity to get stuck in and learn all the Chuck riffs, rather than the slim chance of finding one who already has it down perhaps? Not an easy task I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 I was looking at that recently. We used to do it in my group, and it went really well, but the guitarist decided he wasn't doing the intro properly and wanted to do it properly and won't do it until he can, so I looked at what 'proper' was. A friend of mine does guitar lessons and stuff, and noticed that he had a lesson on it, sounds pretty good: https://www.mastertheguitar.co.uk/course/johnny-b-goode-by-chuck-berry-masterthatriff-94/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted September 21, 2017 Author Share Posted September 21, 2017 Your mate does a pretty impressive job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazzbass Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 It could be because they're trying to play his licks with E standard tuning I'm reading a bio of an Aussie band, The Angels, who were Chuck's band for a down under tour in the late 70s. On setting up the guitarist tried Chuck's guitar, realised it was way out of tune and tuned it up for Chuck. Chuck couldn't play it, he had to retune it, I'm guessing to an open G chord like Keef does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casapete Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 Chuck used standard tuning as far as I'm aware. However, he was renowned for being somewhat casual regarding accuracy. Just before walking onstage, I've seen him backstage with his Gibson 355 neck up to his ear trying to tune up, then walk on with his guitar in tune with itself, but subsequently not in concert pitch like the rest of the band. First couple of numbers were 'interesting' until he got it sorted! Never really understood why this didn't appear to overly bother him. ( There are quite a few clips on YT showing this.) All part of the Chuck legend I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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