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Duck Dunn in wrong note shocker?


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#1 wateroftyne

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 11:46 AM

Listen to this from about 1m10s.

When it shifts into the middle eight, it goes minor, but Duck cracks on with the usual line.



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#2 hiram.k.hackenbacker

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 11:56 AM

Nope. Can't hear anything wrong with that either.

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#3 Dad3353

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 12:02 PM

View Postwateroftyne, on 12 October 2017 - 11:46 AM, said:

...Duck cracks on with the usual line....

I don't agree; I hear the bass line change to follow the chords. Nowt out of kilter there, I say. :mellow:
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#4 wateroftyne

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 12:04 PM

Ahh.. it's jarring to me. I've just checked and he does it on the original, too.

It must just be me..
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Posted 12 October 2017 - 12:12 PM

View Postwateroftyne, on 12 October 2017 - 12:04 PM, said:

Ahh.. it's jarring to me. I've just checked and he does it on the original, too.

It must just be me..

Ha ha, there's a track on Street Legal by Dylan where the bass player plays a howler, it drives me crazy, but no-one else can hear it. Which of course means everyone else is just not as discerning as us :)

#6 Jus Lukin

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 12:14 PM

I hear it- the 'sixth' step of the first chord of the mid 8 is played major, but 'ought' to be minor, right?

Or to put it more simply, the highest note of the phrase on that chord should be a semi-tone lower.

I'm saying this without a bass in my hands to check, but that's how it sounds to me.

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#7 wateroftyne

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 12:20 PM

View PostJus Lukin, on 12 October 2017 - 12:14 PM, said:

I hear it- the 'sixth' step of the first chord of the mid 8 is played major, but 'ought' to be minor, right?

Or to put it more simply, the highest note of the phrase on that chord should be a semi-tone lower.

I'm saying this without a bass in my hands to check, but that's how it sounds to me.

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#8 hiram.k.hackenbacker

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 12:21 PM

 Jus Lukin, on 12 October 2017 - 12:14 PM, said:

I hear it- the 'sixth' step of the first chord of the mid 8 is played major, but 'ought' to be minor, right?

Or to put it more simply, the highest note of the phrase on that chord should be a semi-tone lower.

I'm saying this without a bass in my hands to check, but that's how it sounds to me.

Is this at exactly 1m10s?

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#9 wateroftyne

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 12:26 PM

View Posthiram.k.hackenbacker, on 12 October 2017 - 12:21 PM, said:

Is this at exactly 1m10s?

No - 1m22s. I suggested listening from a bit earlier to get some context.
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#10 dood

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 12:31 PM

View Posthiram.k.hackenbacker, on 12 October 2017 - 12:21 PM, said:

Is this at exactly 1m10s?

No, everything is fine at 1.10 - Listen to the note at 1.22

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#11 SubsonicSimpleton

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 12:33 PM

View Postwateroftyne, on 12 October 2017 - 11:46 AM, said:

Of course it's Duck, so I'm happy to accept that he's right, and everyone else is wrong :-)
Carole Kaye told me she deliberately played the major 6th over the minor chord to create tension when she recorded this.

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 12:36 PM

Maybe Duck fancied a bit of a melodic minor line in there!

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 12:46 PM

View PostSubsonicSimpleton, on 12 October 2017 - 12:33 PM, said:

Carole Kaye told me she deliberately played the major 6th over the minor chord to create tension when she recorded this.

Was the matter ever resolved?
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#14 hiram.k.hackenbacker

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 12:48 PM

 wateroftyne, on 12 October 2017 - 12:26 PM, said:

No - 1m22s. I suggested listening from a bit earlier to get some context.

If it's the note I think it is, doesn't he repeat it again afterwards? Still sounds fine to me though.

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#15 chris_b

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 01:06 PM

Duck Dunn just about rescues crashing into the first chorus on Sam and Dave's Soul Man.

If the groove was good then the mistakes stayed. Time and tape was expensive back then and most bass lines "disappeared" when you played the record on your Dansette or listened to it on the car radio.
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#16 wateroftyne

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 01:07 PM

View Posthiram.k.hackenbacker, on 12 October 2017 - 12:48 PM, said:

If it's the note I think it is, doesn't he repeat it again afterwards? Still sounds fine to me though.

He does - it sounds wrong both times to me. ha ha.
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#17 wateroftyne

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 01:07 PM

View Postchris_b, on 12 October 2017 - 01:06 PM, said:

Duck Dunn just about rescues crashing into the first chorus on Sam and Dave's Soul Man.

If the groove was good then the mistakes stayed. Time and tape was expensive back then and most bass lines "disappeared" when you played the record on your Dansette or listened to it on the car radio.

Absolutely.. it's intriguing he kept it for the BB2000 recording, though. He must have been pretty convinced by it.
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#18 chris_b

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 01:15 PM

6345789. . . . It's the same line as on the original.

They tried to keep the same bass pattern running through the Middle 8 chord sequence. While it sounds OK to me, a different line could have sounded more "natural".
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#19 Jus Lukin

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 01:15 PM

The man's clearly a charlatan! :D

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 01:18 PM

No, that was Martin Blunt. Pay attention.
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#21 Buzzy

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 01:20 PM

It's wrong but it's also right (if that makes sense), anyway, who are we to question the mighty Duck.

#22 hiram.k.hackenbacker

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 01:22 PM

 wateroftyne, on 12 October 2017 - 01:07 PM, said:

He does - it sounds wrong both times to me. ha ha.

Well, I'm at a time in my life when I've just had to concede that I need spectacles just to read that ridiculously small writing on food jars that they've shrunk even more over the last five years or so.

Perhaps I need a hearing aid as well 😬

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#23 The Jaywalker

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 02:36 PM

There's zero issue with playing a major 6th over a minor chord. It's absolutely normal. Lots more minor scales out there than Natural Minor/Aeolian ;-)

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 02:37 PM

View PostThe Jaywalker, on 12 October 2017 - 02:36 PM, said:

There's zero issue with playing a major 6th over a minor chord. It's absolutely normal. Lots more minor scales out there than Natural Minor/Aeolian ;-)

Quite. :mellow:
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#25 wateroftyne

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 02:45 PM

View PostThe Jaywalker, on 12 October 2017 - 02:36 PM, said:

There's zero issue with playing a major 6th over a minor chord. It's absolutely normal. Lots more minor scales out there than Natural Minor/Aeolian ;-)

Gah.. it sounds so wishy-washy to my ears.

I actually think he should have pedaled the root on the middle eight. It would have sounded so much better, and maybe the song might have been more of a commercial success.

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#26 dood

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 02:55 PM

View PostThe Jaywalker, on 12 October 2017 - 02:36 PM, said:

There's zero issue with playing a major 6th over a minor chord. It's absolutely normal. Lots more minor scales out there than Natural Minor/Aeolian ;-)

Indeed!

As I mentioned earlier. Thing is though, I think in this song it's a case of expectancy. The whole song is in D Major (D, G A etc) and the ear expects the Bm move to be Aeolian. So when the Major 6th comes in only in the bass, it's a note "in between the ones" that have been well trodden in the song. It sounds a little odd. No problem with that as an intention but it does sound out of place when we are SO used to the formulaic bile that can fill the popular music charts :)

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 03:24 PM

View Postwateroftyne, on 12 October 2017 - 12:04 PM, said:

Ahh.. it's jarring to me. I've just checked and he does it on the original, too.

It must just be me..

No. As you say, that's on the original, I transcribed it about 10 years ago and it still sounds out of place. If I were in the position of coming up with the line, I would most likely play an A note to suggest Bm7 - G natural would sound even odder against a Bm chord!
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#28 ZilchWoolham

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 03:32 PM

That is actually very noticeable. It's low enough in the mix to not be all too jarring, though. Funny thing, psychoacoustics.

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 03:35 PM

Yup, it sounds 'wrong' to me also - but hey - is this really important?
The overall laid back feel to the line is the important thing!

#30 TrevorR

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 04:05 PM

Sounds to me like a deliberate note choice on the first two measures to add a bit of dissonant tension which he then removes on the third and fourth measures.

Or it could be the old trick of when you play a bum note always play it again so people think it's an "arrangement".

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