Can you read music?

[iamthewalrus]

Reading this & all the other reading threads have made me want to put a concerted effort into learning how to read this year, especially as I've been playing for 25 years. Fed up with being not being able to.

I won't be playing in a pit band any time soon but it would be nice to play all the stuff in my bass books

[Bilbo]

[quote name='iamthewalrus' post='857470' date='Jun 4 2010, 05:15 PM']I won't be playing in a pit band any time soon but it would be nice to play all the stuff in my bass books [/quote]

I think that is one of the most important aspects of this. It is a great way of maximising your practice time and getting you into the learning material andout the other side.

[AndyTravis]

I used to have a rough idea of it when using cakewalk at college...

I seem to have developed a decent enough ear, to figure stuff out - so i've got very lazy.

I wish i could really sight read though...just to get more work.

Admire anybody who can.

[TankJon]

If you don't need to read then learning to read wouldn't really be necessary but it never does any harm to add a few more strings to your bow. If you want your bass playing to pay your bills then its essential ...unless your in a band selling millions of records.
I do read but a lot of what I do doesn't require me to do so. Although I am considering doing the whole wedding/function band thing again so it would mean me not having to remember everything

[wal4string]

[quote name='funkysimon' post='34811' date='Jul 20 2007, 05:15 PM']FACE! And the other good mnemonic for the treble clef,
Every Good Boy Deserves Fellatio

I can't think of a good one for the bass clef lines. George Bush Deserves F'kin Evisceration, maybe? Hmmm, bit political.[/quote]
I consider myself a good reader but the GBDF etc. never did it for me. The way to really remember is the bottom line on the bass clef is a G, next space up is an A, next line up is a B, next space a C etc. The first ledger line above the staff is a C (middle C infact) and the first ledger line below the staff is an E (bottom note on a 4 string bass). When you get better at reading you dont actually think of these note names you just learn where each note is played on the bass. A good reader will often read a few bars ahead so they know if a change of position is going to be needed. A far as TAB is concerned, I could never see the point even though easier to begin with in the long run reading transcriptions is a far better option. I have earned a living out of being able to play a song with little or no rehearsel which I could never have done if I just read TAB. I have included an image which I hope will make it clearer. It is really just a question of understanding how music is written, and so easy you will kick yourself when everything falls into place. Its a bit like learning to drierve, at first you wonder how the hell you are going to coordinate everything, and when you do everything is easy. One other tip that may help you to remember where the notes are on the staff. The bass clef is also known as the F clef and the two dotes which are writen after the wrong facing C are either side of the F.

[iamthewalrus]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='857750' date='Jun 4 2010, 10:14 PM']I think that is one of the most important aspects of this. It is a great way of maximising your practice time and getting you into the learning material andout the other side.[/quote]

Just an update on Bilbo's reply to my original post. I've been working on my reading from an old bass book my first bass teacher gave me 25 years ago called "The Complete Electric Bassist" (which I think is long out of print). Although I'm progressing slowly (playing all the exercises at 50bpm on the metronome), it's all starting to come together. The plus side with the book is that there's no TAB, so it does actually make you read & work on your fingering (which is all 1-2-4 in the lower positions).

Am looking forward to continuing the journey & be able to play this stuff fluently.

[stevie]

The Complete Electric Bassist is by far the best book published to help you learn to read for the bass guitar, IMO. Only available secondhand now, it leaves others in the dust. It's such a shame they didn't publish volume 2. For a bit of variety, dig into the Major's Boot Camp here in the Theory and Technique section. The Major covers a lot of the same material but in a more modern way.

[Bilbo]

Did a rehearsal yesterday for a show scheduled at the Theatre Roayl in Bury next month. Clarinet, Sax, Flute, 2x violin, cello, trumpet, piano, guitar, bass and drums.

We collectively nailed some pretty sophisticated stuff - everything from Les Miserable to We Will Rock You and Wicked - can you imagine trying to make that happen with that line up WITHOUT dots? It would have been a car crash.

Found myself struggling with the detail sometimes (sixteeths in E major ) but my ears got me there without my looking too mmuch like a git. Dots rool!

[Marcus Müller]

[quote name='funkysimon' post='34730' date='Jul 20 2007, 03:27 PM']How many of us basschatters can read music? I can just about stumble through, though I'm never certain I'm playing in the right octave, and I certainly wouldn't be able to sight-read a piece of music; usually I have to think long and hard about tied semi-quavers and dotted this-that-and-the-others. That said, I've not done any music grade exams, and I guess that's where a lot of this stuff is taught.

If you can read music, do you find you use the skill a lot? Do you think it's an important skill? To test a correlation, if you can read music, are you also the kind of person that never practices without a metronome?[/quote]
it is most inportant!
do not be a musical illiterate!!
an iternaztional langwage people of differnt kulchurs can still communicate wiv ze muzak.

it is hard at 1st if yu lurn wid de ears 1st
do it daily and i yu bild a vocabulaury and zoon becumz zeer eazy.
do not just reed buss muzak...read anyting you can lay yu handz onn!

it vill widen yu scope, unt open yu mind - Love & peese

Edited August 16, 2010 by Marcus Müller

[Marcus Müller]

[quote name='Marcus Müller' post='926274' date='Aug 16 2010, 11:14 AM']it is most inportant!
do not be a musical illiterate!!
an iternaztional langwage people of differnt kulchurs can still communicate wiv ze muzak.

it is hard at 1st if yu lurn wid de ears 1st
do it daily and i yu bild a vocabulaury and zoon becumz zeer eazy.
do not just reed buss muzak...read anyting you can lay yu handz onn!

it vill widen yu scope, unt open yu mind - Love & peese[/quote]
a nudder gut tool, if yu see complikated 16s iz tu reed everting wiv harf values - 16s becum 8's
den it all loox so eazy

readin is anuver skill which iz most zatififyink....love!!

[fingerz]

Reading music/being able to read music helps your general understanding of music when you play it. Knowing how things fit in time and space and having a reference for that,, which is universal. I know people who can't read who are great musicians, but it sometimes takes a bit longer to explain how something goes before a set if we haven't rehearsed it. It can only help, like I say, it gives it all a context which can help to understand how things go.

Re TAB. My opinion when I teach reading is to avoid it. Why? because I've never done a gig (pro or not) and had tab put in front of me. if you're gunna put some time into reading, then I like to teach the route that you can get the most mileage out of. TAB is hard to get the timing out of too. But for many who just wanna put something onto the fingerboard it's a useful tool.

Edited August 16, 2010 by fingerz

[Hector]

Yeah, the only thing TAB might be good for is to demonstrate positions of notes on the fingerboard, but even then 90% of the time you should be learning these shapes for yourself from the dots!

Edited August 16, 2010 by Hector

[Doddy]

[quote name='fingerz' post='926314' date='Aug 16 2010, 11:57 AM']Re TAB. My opinion when I teach reading is to avoid it. Why? because I've never done a gig (pro or not) and had tab put in front of me.[/quote]

Exactly. Tab simply doesn't exist in the gigging world.

[quote name='Hector' post='926327' date='Aug 16 2010, 12:10 PM']Yeah, the only thing TAB might be good for is to demonstrate positions of notes on the fingerboard, but even then 90% of the time you should be learning these shapes for yourself from the dots![/quote]

Even then,if you know the notes on both the stave and the fingerboard it makes the tab irrelevant.

[Bilbo]

I am half way through a series of 8 gigs in 9 days. Monday to Wednesday, I played in a pit orchestra at the Theatre Royal in Bury St Edmunds doing a 'songs from the shows' review. Les Miserables, Sweeney Todd, Chicago, Sound Of Music, Oliver, Wicked, We Will Rock You etc. Saturday it was a jazz quintet, Sunday a Brazillian band, Friday a blues bnad and next Saturday the Brazillian thing again....

Tunes included - Don't Stop Me Now, Somebody To Love, Reviewing The Situation, Lonely Goatherd, Ballad Of Sweeney Todd, A Little Priest, Noone Mourns The Wicked, What Is This Feeling, One Short Day, Agony, Mr. Cellophane, Cell Block Tango, All That Jazz, Not While I'm Around, One Day More, On My Own, Noone But You (only the good die young), A Night In Tunisia, Chitins Con Carne, Chicken Shack, Theme From Alfie, Canteloupe Island (yeeuch), I Feel Good, Papa's Got A Brand New Bag, Tiro Onda, Xote De Alegria, A Luz A Tieta, Waiting In Vain, Isn't She Lovely, Clandestino, Palco, Pressao, Arrocha, Aninha Na Praia, Festa Do Passa A Mao, Domingo De Manha, No Balance, Pancadao, Pescaria, Quebre Quebre Quebre, Te Desejo, Sambadinha, Nova Danca, I'm Yours, What's Going On, Son Of A Preacher Man, Billie Jean, Mercy, Valerie, Stuck In The Middle With You, Johnny Be Goode, Ain't Nobody, Good Times, Hit The Road Jack, I Want You Back, Signed Sealed Delivered, Mama Mia, Good Vibes, Shuffle King, Work Song, Tim’s Crones, Feeling Good, Long Time Coming, Smoke & Mirrors, People Have Spoken, Blue Eyes, Power of Now, Kissy Kissy, Ain’t No Turning Back, All I Ever Want a few originals and some other odds and sods I can't recall.

Am I glad I can read the dots!!!!

[BottomEndian]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='950807' date='Sep 9 2010, 04:44 PM']What's Going On, Son Of A Preacher Man[/quote]
Just taking those two (because they're well-known examples of relatively simple basslines that got highly embellished with little variations on the original recordings), how do they get notated in a pit-band environment? Simplified version? Full transcription of all noodles? Simplified version with "ad lib" scrawled at the top?

Having drummed for a few school musicals, I know the written drum parts leave a lot to be desired, so I'm wondering how the bass parts match up...

[EBS_freak]

Can I read music? Yes

Can I sight read music? On keys, yes, no problems. On Bass...? Well... getting better... I want to get better thats why I'm working on with transcription exercises!

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='BottomEndian' post='950813' date='Sep 9 2010, 04:51 PM']Just taking those two (because they're well-known examples of relatively simple basslines that got highly embellished with little variations on the original recordings), how do they get notated in a pit-band environment? Simplified version? Full transcription of all noodles? Simplified version with "ad lib" scrawled at the top?

Having drummed for a few school musicals, I know the written drum parts leave a lot to be desired, so I'm wondering how the bass parts match up...[/quote]

I've seen some varied charts from fully transcribed with every little detail, through to an outline of style, just to a chord sheet that relies on you having heard the original to get somewhere in the region of...!

[BottomEndian]

Honestly, the drum chart for almost every song in [i]Annie[/i] was just four quavers to the bar, notated on snare and bass drum. Boom, boom, boom, boom. Chances of sight-reading appropriately to the song? Nil.

[Bilbo]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='950817' date='Sep 9 2010, 04:54 PM']I've seen some varied charts from fully transcribed with every little detail, through to an outline of style, just to a chord sheet that relies on you having heard the original to get somewhere in the region of...![/quote]

Absolutely. The show was proper dots - fully transcribed down to every detail. The jazz gig was classic fake book charts, the function band is chord sheets without bar lengths but with rhythmic notations for stops and starts and the Brazillian stuff is a lyric sheet with chords over the words! Its a lottery but the show, where someone had properly prepared the paperwork, was by far the most professional production.

My point is simply that, if I had had to rely on memory, I would have fallen at the first hurdle.

[BottomEndian]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='950820' date='Sep 9 2010, 05:00 PM']Absolutely. The show was proper dots - fully transcribed down to every detail.[/quote]
I really want to get gigs like that. Time to start nudging my contacts...

[Gareth Hughes]

My tuppence - yes it's necessary IF you want to do reading gigs and learn things from books, expand your musical vocabulary, etc. As much of a headache as it was for me to learn to sightread, especially as I could already play (to an extent) I always figured it would be a bigger headache to be offered a great gig, with good money and I'm available and then I have to say no because I can't read. I've had gigs come up the day before, from people I have never met, simply because I can read. Given that I make my living doing this, I'm happy that I can take those calls rather than sit in the house, wishing I was out working.

It's a skill like any other - play with a pick, slap, thumb mute, whatever - it's all relevant. Those folks booking you DO NOT CARE about all the things we care about. I've never heard an MD or a sax player or whoever argue the merits of playing with a pick - all they care about is can you make the music sound the way they want it to. Play it standing on your head - with a nappy on, no less!!! Just play it right - and if that means learning to read then do it. Does that make me a better musician than you? Nope But it makes me a better musician than I would be if I couldn't do it.

Edit- Just to add to the OP's original questions - I sometimes use a metronome, especially if I'm working on something that trips my fingers up. And something else that caught my eye on this thread - I haven't done any grades, just learnt from Chuck Rainey's 'The Complete Electric Bass Player Volume 1' book. Well worth getting.

Edited September 9, 2010 by Gareth Hughes

[lowdown]

Here's something to help everybody on their way.
Has a Russian title, so have not a clue what it is...
I do know its a Solo piece for Double Bass.
But its also a nice melodic chop buster for electric bass with staples on the fret board.

Enjoy...
[attachment=58512:001.pdf]

Thankfully not something you would see in a pit on a working day...



Garry

Edited September 9, 2010 by lowdown

[velvetkevorkian]

My Cyrillic is a bit rusty (and my Russian speaking g/f is in bed) but I think it says "Concerto Etude". It's a Simandl study.

[lowdown]

[quote name='velvetkevorkian' post='951310' date='Sep 9 2010, 11:52 PM']My Cyrillic is a bit rusty (and my Russian speaking g/f is in bed) but I think it says "Concerto Etude". It's a Simandl study.[/quote]


Sorry, yes i know its from the 'Simandi studies for Double Bass', But i was not sure what the title was.
It comes with a Piano track on a CD - and i believe there is around 30 tracks. [ the track Cd's are not named - just numbered] Just a bit of a headache working out what piano track matches what study/Etude...

Actually on another Simandl note, the 'Simandl method for Double Bass' is a must have for newbies [ along with a teacher] on upright with some great fingering exercises/
[url="http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=eRDClHJoa0YC&dq=Simandl+bass+method&printsec=frontcover&source=bn&hl=en&ei=b8uJTLTqN4_QjAeXkuWVBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&sqi=2&ved=0CDgQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q&f=false"]http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=eRDClHJ...p;q&f=false[/url]

On the reading front, i have managed to sustain a full time muso career for over thirty years.
So apart from all the advantages that Bilbo often mentions for practicing and skill, without sight reading
i would not have been able to drag it out so long.
But if you get your reading together it opens up other side shows in the music business for creating work.
Along with a good set of ears and transcribing skills, you can get into arranging, converting midi files into scores,
for various things including school band parts through to feature films, and download sites where you get a track and a score /sheet music. Although you would also need skills in Sibilius and Finale...
Also the teaching side of the business, the ability to teach sight reading to students strengthens your credentials
as a tutor.

its all out there to grab and make a consistent career/living in the business.So if your shows/gigs dry up a bit there is always something to fall back on to...or run in tandom.
There is more to sight reading than just reading Bass or Piano parts.it can earn you money in ways you might not have thought of.



Garry

Edited September 10, 2010 by lowdown

[skej21]

I haven't had time to read the full thread, and therefore don't know if this is mentioned already, but this book is great for reading practice (and extending musical vocabulary!) because it's written by one of our own, John Patitucci!

It is written specifically for Electric & Acoustic Bass and features scales as well as 60 melodic etudes. The link below also shows a sample of the very first page of the etudes section.

[url="http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/title/60-Melodic-Etudes/5841170"]http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/title/60-Mel...-Etudes/5841170[/url]

Have a look, I think it's a great resource and I'm someone will find it useful