warwickhunt Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 Krozka Sharpe Guitars (http://www.ksguitars.com/) are just kicking off their brand of guitars, marketing is taking off and they have lots of interest in their range of 6 stringers. I had a good old chin-wag with the guys down there and it transpires they are developing their first production bass. They have certain aesthetics that they feel have to be incorporated to keep the bass in line with their guitar range but welcomed the idea of input from the bass community, hence this thread. Now the good bit... The body is likely to be pretty much a version of their 'Raider' guitar (below), headstock will likely be a reverse 4 on a side design (upside down Jazz, my words not theirs) and the fingerboard is open to debate depending upon final body wood selection (possibly Alder or Sycamore). It is likely to have a tear-drop pickguard (a la MM) with a PJ pup configuration with controls rear-mounted, placed similar to the guitar below. Comments, suggestions and insight into the proposed bass would be greatly appreciated. It would be helpful to them if you could explain why you think something is good or bad and a brief insight into your main gigging bass so that they can weigh up the comments. Who knows... a name check for Basschat might be in order! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skelf Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 Very much my type of thing. Like the reverse off set and the minimal bottom horn. However I feel that the top horn is totally out of character with the rest of the design it is a standard Jazz type horn which I think is at odds with the rest of the curves and shapes used. Cheers Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-soar Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 Thats because it's almost a Skelf guitar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 (edited) Some interesting design elements going on there (including a bit of a nod to the Overwater Original shape), but as Alan says the top horn is too big. I'd go further and say that both horns look too large in relation to the rest of the guitar so either reduce the horns or flare out the body more after the waist. Also I don't like angled pick-ups (on anything that doesn't have fanned frets). I can't believe that the slight angle of these makes enough of a difference to the sound to justify the ugliness of the look - these just look as though they were put on wrong. Also more imprtantly from a bass playing PoV I find angled pickups uncomfortable to use a thumb rests. What would be cool if they must have angled pick-ups, would be custom covers so at least the bass side of the pickup was parallel to the string. I'd also consider ditching the pickguard if the woods used are nice enough looking or making it a little fatter (to me the proportions don't quite sit right with the body, although with the reshaping of the horns the slim design might work better.) Reversed headstocks are cool looking on guitars, but watch for neck-dive on basses also the reach to the E tuner in this configuration might be a little too far for those of us with shorter arms... Hope there's some useful food for thought there - although they might want to look more closely at my general taste in guiatrs and basses before taking too much notice of my comments! ;-) Edited August 13, 2007 by BigRedX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 They may like to start out with a body somewhat like a Jazz ... OK I know that sounds conservative and boring but ... The Fender Jazz is successful for all sorts of reason - not just the looks but the balance, playability, functionality, pickup position, access to the neck etc etc I think most luthiers make "Super Jazzes" as their bread and butter basses and probably sell loads more of those than anything else. Trying to come up with a new shape body that works as well and looks as "together" as a jazz is a tough call and probably something to try after getting the rest of the thing right ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted August 13, 2007 Author Share Posted August 13, 2007 Excellent. Keep them coming guys. Bear in mind that it is a 'guitar' that you're looking at so proportions may be slightly different on a bass. I think it'd be interesting if the designers added their own responses so I'll sort something out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johngh Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 [quote name='OldGit' post='45008' date='Aug 13 2007, 09:12 PM']They may like to start out with a body somewhat like a Jazz ... OK I know that sounds conservative and boring but ... The Fender Jazz is successful for all sorts of reason - not just the looks but the balance, playability, functionality, pickup position, access to the neck etc etc I think most luthiers make "Super Jazzes" as their bread and butter basses and probably sell loads more of those than anything else. Trying to come up with a new shape body that works as well and looks as "together" as a jazz is a tough call and probably something to try after getting the rest of the thing right ...[/quote] At the risk of getting shot at by the diehards, here is my tuppence worth. There are a million and one Jazz style designs out there at the moment. Anything new along those lines has got to be very very good to even get a look in. It depends on the price range as well. I like a bass that is versatile and that will give me a range of sounds that I can dial in quickly without fuss. I had an Alembic once and it was a nightmare, the tone controls were way too sensitive. My advice is to keep it simple. I agree on the comments about the horns though, think I'd ditch the pickguard as well, let the wood show through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 [quote name='Johngh' post='45022' date='Aug 13 2007, 09:37 PM']At the risk of getting shot at by the diehards, here is my tuppence worth. There are a million and one Jazz style designs out there at the moment. Anything new along those lines has got to be very very good to even get a look in. It depends on the price range as well. I like a bass that is versatile and that will give me a range of sounds that I can dial in quickly without fuss. I had an Alembic once and it was a nightmare, the tone controls were way too sensitive. My advice is to keep it simple. I agree on the comments about the horns though, think I'd ditch the pickguard as well, let the wood show through. [/quote] Have to wear one really ... I can never tell til I stick it on and have a go ... Love the aesthetics of T'birds and Rics but I can't actually play them cos they don't fit. It's a chicken and egg jobbie .. I think there are millions of Jazz type basses out there cos 1 they work and 2 people will risk buying one knowing they have half a chance of selling it if it doesn't work out for them .. a one off body shape is so individual that it risks being even less saleable than a less esoteric custom .. and they are hard enough to sell .. There's plenty of other shapes that work for a lot of people too that could be starting points: Warwick, Peavey, Status .. RE this body shape it does rather look as it's been made out of bits of other things rather than a cohesive whole. Short Jazz top horn, a touch of the non-reverse t bird forearm area and T bird knobs (well three of them ), MM scratchplate ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul, the Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 +1 on the originality. If you're going to create an instrument, it may as well be your own design. +1 on the jazz horn looking silly. Although if it was more symmetrical, it might look too much like a Danelectro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 [quote name='Johngh' post='45022' date='Aug 13 2007, 09:37 PM']At the risk of getting shot at by the diehards, here is my tuppence worth. There are a million and one Jazz style designs out there at the moment. Anything new along those lines has got to be very very good to even get a look in.[/quote] Actually that's very true of any design at all. The whole market place is very full, from 50 quid beginners bass package sets to £4000+ hand built customs. Wherever they come in the price range they will find loads of competition. If they are doing OK in the custom guitar world they should probably forget about basses all together .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nash Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 i'd say make the body bigger to fit with the horns issue. more wood for sustain. bigger bodied bass are cool and rock n roll which is where i see this shape being played. im not a fan of gold hardware and i dont like the scratchplate but i cant think of anything better. i do like the body shape. also i think a 2 a side tuner formation would be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean-Luc Pickguard Posted August 14, 2007 Share Posted August 14, 2007 I must admit I find it uglier than an EBMM bongo, so in theory it should be even more comfy to play and sound better than a bongo. Rightly ot wrongly that shape looks like the main design criteria was to be different, rather than look aesthetically pleasing. - It looks like it could have been designed by committee. It should be designed as a unique bass model in its own right not as a scaled-up version of an existing guitar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3V17C Posted August 14, 2007 Share Posted August 14, 2007 (edited) hmmm... not too bad that guitar. for some reason reminds me of the Washburn N4 (?) Nuno Bettencourt sigs....not sure why, perhaps the plain wood finish.... However, me no likee the wonky pickups - I always think they spoil the lines of a guitar and just look a bit bodged up - and as someone else said, not good for resting your thumb on when playing fingerstyle. that skinny looking MM type pickguard looks a little odd to me too, far too many screws scattered around in close proximity to each other. would like to see the headstock as visually this can often make or break the design of a guitar. also..the neck pocket/joint looks perhaps a little awkward to me.... their website needs finishing off too! peace c Edited August 14, 2007 by 3V17C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Burpster Posted August 14, 2007 Share Posted August 14, 2007 Just another Jazz copy will be just that ........ With everybody striving to get specific Jazzes as it is, they may do themselves out of a lot of sales if thats how they go...... Without going too overboard, they might want to think outside the box a little to give them someting of an 'individuality' MAYBE something along the lines of a Fender Jaguar copy(ligther smaller bodied Por J variant) but still looking vaugely Fenderish may give them something that isnt around at the moment......? Several folks of late have been hankering after Jags and unless they are very patient or have very deep wallets they are dissapointed..... As for using the shape of the above guitar, IMO whilst it will appeal to some, they wont be huge numbers, and it seems at the moment there is lots of options available for most players.... Food for thought....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 I think it would look a LOT better without the pickguard. The shape just doesnt play off it at all! Just my £0.02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 WarwickHunt ... Just ask them to build a bass then pass it round the community for feedback .. That kind of market research is priceless ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted August 15, 2007 Author Share Posted August 15, 2007 [quote name='OldGit' post='45640' date='Aug 15 2007, 10:12 AM']WarwickHunt ... Just ask them to build a bass then pass it round the community for feedback .. That kind of market research is priceless ...[/quote] I'm calling in this afternoon to check on the progress of my Warwick Streamer paint strip... 'shy bairns get nowt' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 [quote name='warwickhunt' post='45642' date='Aug 15 2007, 10:19 AM']I'm calling in this afternoon to check on the progress of my Warwick Streamer paint strip... 'shy bairns get nowt' [/quote] Bagsie next then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordAvon Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 They could do with adding the missing pages from their website. I got a bit fed up of looking after seeing lots of "under construction" and "404 page not found". If you have no pictures and no info on a product, don't list it on your website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neepheid Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 [quote name='LordAvon' post='45694' date='Aug 15 2007, 11:52 AM']They could do with adding the missing pages from their website. I got a bit fed up of looking after seeing lots of "under construction" and "404 page not found". If you have no pictures and no info on a product, don't list it on your website.[/quote] +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 (edited) [quote name='neepheid' post='45698' date='Aug 15 2007, 11:56 AM']+1[/quote] +2 Actually they have another (complete) website [url="http://www.krozka-sharpe.com/guitars.html"]http://www.krozka-sharpe.com/guitars.html[/url] that has a few guitars, players, vids and stuff .. and more details so maybe this one is still in development and Warwicks' spilled the beans a tad early ... Edited August 15, 2007 by OldGit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibob Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 (edited) If the bass looks anything like the guitar, i wouldn't be ordering one I havn't got much to say really about it, i agree with a post above suggesting a more conservative/well known design as a starter. I would argue that working bass players want something well made and instantly easy to use to get on with the job. If you have a Jazz shape for example, players would perhaps be more inclined to order without trying. With slightly random shapes like that, i would most definatly want to try one first, so see how it balanced etc. That might slow down/reduce a prospective client base. I've been in similar talks about a bass range with another hand-made builder, it is suprisingly difficult to get across to them that if they want to sell a lot of basses they need to cater for the masses as it were with well known and functional shapes. If they want to build the funky shapes that make themselves happy, then they have to be prepared to only sell to a small number of players who subscribe to their asthetics. The obvious solution in my head is to have two models in a bass range, a J-bass perhaps with some teaks obviously (gotta make your stamp somehow), and a funky original design. So i guess i did have a little bit to say about it haha Cheers and good luck! Si Edited August 15, 2007 by Sibob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 [quote name='Sibob' post='45725' date='Aug 15 2007, 12:33 PM']The obvious solution in my head is to have two models in a bass range, a J-bass perhaps with some teaks obviously (gotta make your stamp somehow), and a funky original design.[/quote] Yeah that's what Nordstrand do: Exotics, single cuts, extended ranges: [url="http://www.nordstrandguitars.com/models.htm"]http://www.nordstrandguitars.com/models.htm[/url] and Super Jazzes [url="http://www.nordstrandguitars.com/nordy.htm"]http://www.nordstrandguitars.com/nordy.htm[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted August 15, 2007 Author Share Posted August 15, 2007 All food for thought for the guys and regardless of whether anyone likes it or not they really do value any comments; not just on this particular outline but on any aspect of a prospective new bass on the block! Keep them coming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 Having had a look on both of their sites now, I'd be more inclided to go for a bass based on their Atum-Re design. There's potential to get an original take on the single-cut design for a bass there - the sculpted/rounded back looks very interesting (or is that just a trick of the finish?), rather than the more conservative but seemingly pleasing to no-one shape that they've been proposing. As ffor J-style basses IMO there's already too many. If I wanted one I'd either get a Fender or a Lakland or Celindar... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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